Tortorella's Rant Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 39 minutes ago, HockeyHarry said: Reminder - Signing stupid UFAs just too plz the Canuck Candy eating fans, are why Canucks have cap problems. UFA = over paid players with years of high Cap in declining productive years. And that doesn't have to happen in order to 'do something' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, HockeyHarry said: UFA = over paid players with years of high Cap in declining productive years. Funny thing is a lot of the people that defended these type of signings in the past years are some of the same people that are now preaching patience. The goal posts are always moving. Edited October 12, 2020 by kanucks25 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, kanucks25 said: Funny thing is a lot of the people that defended these type of signings in the past years are some of the same people that are now preaching patience. The goal posts are always moving. Speaking of moving goalposts. Pot meet kettle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 If they could get Hamonic & Toffoli we'd basically be back to where we were. Otherwise we are just hoping young player can fill the voids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: If they could get Hamonic & Toffoli we'd basically be back to where we were. If everything works out, sure. IMO Hamonic is a downgrade on Tanev, but he if he can play up to his top potential then he's a fine replacement. And then Markstrom, who has been lights out for about the last season and a half; Holtby is coming off a terrible season + two not-so-great seasons prior, and Demko (although incredible in the playoffs) has to prove he can carry the #1 load over the course of a full season. If these two things work out (+ Toffoli), we are sort of back to square 1. But the point was to improve, however it looks like it won't be possible this summer to due some of the contracts that have been talked about a lot already. Really, because management is either unwilling or incapable of moving out cap, we'll have to be patient (some more) while cap clears up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 5:49 PM, Warhippy said: We have depth. We need to change things up. So it's happening. It's like knowing the Sedins were done in 2013 but pretending to hang on until they retired but hoping somehow without doing anything, everything would change. Sometimes when you do things right, people don't think you're doing anything at all. I think so to. On one hand, the Canucks need to push for the playoffs and on the other, the long term success of this team depends on the younger guys in the system. Although Covid has forced their hand, it might be necessary to see if younger players can play next season to have long term success. Hope that makes sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSwede Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, kanucks25 said: If everything works out, sure. IMO Hamonic is a downgrade on Tanev, but he if he can play up to his top potential then he's a fine replacement. And then Markstrom, who has been lights out for about the last season and a half; Holtby is coming off a terrible season + two not-so-great seasons prior, and Demko (although incredible in the playoffs) has to prove he can carry the #1 load over the course of a full season. If these two things work out (+ Toffoli), we are sort of back to square 1. But the point was to improve, however it looks like it won't be possible this summer to due some of the contracts that have been talked about a lot already. Really, because management is either unwilling or incapable of moving out cap, we'll have to be patient (some more) while cap clears up. It's really just an unfortunate situation to find yourself in with the whole flat cap situation. That wasn't really in the Benning "plan" of things to happen but it is also the reality of 30 other teams. We need to somehow, while its near impossible, move out cap while retaining our valueable assets. It's a mission impossible situation. It's forced our hand to do what is right for the future outlook of the team and those things are actually happening. Sadly that means not giving term and having to let go off both Marky and Tanny and could also mean regression next season. Those massive bottom six contracts that we still have kicking around were also signed with the understanding that the cap had been rising consistently for.. how long? I don't even know. But these contracts wouldn't look so bad if the cap was rising to 88 for 2022 instead of 81,5. We could have fit everyone in. I don't really hold that against Benning for x amount of reasons that have been discussed to death already. We aren't as f***ed as some other teams and maybe that's some sense of comfort. Like you said, goal posts are always moving, but that's been forced upon us. Things have changed. We acquired Toffoli before the season was shut down and the flat cap became a reality. Prior to that it was a really savy move to complete our top 6 while moving out parts that were expendable. Toff did everything we could have wished him to do and we would have been able to retain him if the cap situation didn't change out of the blue. Maybe we manage to do that still. As things stand, I'm happy with our goaltending situation. I understand that there could be a concern from fans in regards to this but I feel that there are just as many positive outcomes or possibilities as there are question marks. Ian Clark is really good at his job and Holtby will benefit from that. Demko must be super motivated to get things started. The entire league is shifting to having a cheaper tandem situation in net. Goalies are so good now. Gone are the days of the Carey Price and Henrik Lundqvist contracts. Markström will help Calgary for now, but he can also wind up being a massive anchor for their team the last few years of that contract. Thumbs up to Benning for avoiding that situation for the future. We are betting on ourselves and on our youth. That's never the wrong answer in terms of the future. Defense - Too early right now but yea.. super concerning as things stand. Black hole type of situation. Things will happen here though. Hopefully. It's actually crazy how bad things would be if nothing happens. Bottom 3 team easily. Hughes - Myers (it works but not as good as Hughes+Tanev) Edler - Juolevi (Edler is what 36 going into next year and paired with an injury riddled rookie that's punching way above his weight in a top4 role) Benn - Chatfield/Rafferty (AHL fodder) Forwards - We are fine here actually. We might take a step back but heres to hoping what we lose is gained by the development of our young players. Boeser could really use a "bounce back" type of season and the team could really really use that with how things are going. I am confident in our top 6 as it stands. I think it will be good for Jake to have a bigger opening for top 6 minutes. At the same time I would love it if Jake was traded for a young RHD and we end up signing Toff instead. That's a both for today and tomorrow. Our cap situation is a lot better than what a lot of people make it out to be. Sure it might slap us in the face this year but that's the reality of most teams in the league right now. Colorado is in a dream situation and they haven't really accomplished anything other than doing one over on Bowman so far. I guess we all want these guys to be in the playoffs next year as well because we got a taste of it this year and man was it sweet. However, my focus is on 2 years from now. When our window should really be opening. In 2 years time we are in a similar situation to Colorado. That I am really looking forward to. Dead weight is gone. Cap has shifted to our young star players and we got plenty and plenty of cap space to sign and trade for key players. I'd rather every single move that happens this off-season is done with a focus on that rather than to pay a lot for moving out a dead weight contract like Sutter who is only on the books for another year. Take the hit today and benefit more in the future I reckon. Maybe all of this is a blessing in disguise or maybe I am just desperately trying to spin this into something positive. Honestly it could probably be really smart to hold onto as many young players and draft picks as possible and just take this next year as a slap in the face. I want them to go after UFAs because we are gonna HAVE to fill the holes. We can call it "character" building and we end up picking up another big prospect. I don't know how I feel about it but.. yea. I just hope none of it disturbs this beauty of events that is about to happen: In 1 year: - No Spooner buyout (1 mil) - No Brandon Sutter (4.3 mil) - No Baertschi (3.5 mil) In 2 years: - All of the above - No Luongo recapture (3 mil) - No Loui Eriksson (6 mil) - No Roussel (3 mil) - No Beagle (3 mil) - No Ferland who either retires or goes on LTIR (3.5 mil) We are still "paying" for sucking for so many years. Wish that part was over but we are not there yet and if you think about it we actually shouldn't be there just yet either. We exceeded expectations this year and maybe we should reflect on our expectations. Would we be panicking as much if we didn't make it to the playoffs this past year? I don't think we would. P.S If Benning ends up getting fired over the next two years, I would predict that getting that the Vancouver job could easily be the most attractive destination to land for people in hockey management. You are stepping into a dream scenario. #1C, #1D and most likely a #1G as well with lot's and lot's of cap space to use to surround them. Give me the job. Edited October 12, 2020 by DeltaSwede 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 16 hours ago, EdgarM said: This is exactly what the objective is, getting rid of the "Softy's" which has been our identity for far too long. I think if there was a way to rid ourselves of the biggest Softy, Ericksson, I am sure it would have been done long ago. Loved Tanev and Stech's efforts but way too soft for playoff type play. Getting Holtby was genius if you ask me, Markstrom played very well for a short period of time and still looked like he struggled when he tired and he also was very prone to injuries, it seemed. There is now no controversy with the Seattle expansion and Holtby is still an NHL proven and Cup Winning goalie. Loved what JB has been able to do and I look forward to see what he has up his sleeve next. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 TIME an CAP caught up to us Without expansion and cap, we may have waited to see if Demko is for real- (I think he is and is ahead of where Markstrom was at his age) So letting Marky go was most likely the right thing to do (considering, cap, expansion, term, and no cup expectations next year) Letting Tanev go because of term, was probably the right way thing too I think letting Stecher go for what he got was the wrong thing, as he was serviceable for 2 years. I read they wanted him to wait while they went after Barrie, but Stech had an offer in front of him and couldn't wait, poor on management, glad for Stetcher Not sure holding unto Jake for arbitration award is good (Expect an NHL arbitrator to hose us) Ok with Tofu walking, we won't be getting a cup the next time we play, I would rather have the cap space Boeser stays, only unless he can be moved for a similar defenseman Keep and hopefully acquire picks, the prospects we have are NHL unproven ones as of yet No sweeteners, we have to suck it up for a year, In a way good thing it won't be 84 games we witness a poor team, but the year after should be much better One more year of patience (not rushing) , Funny this is the same thing i was saying BEFORE we signed all the ufa, Rarely do they pan out, We have good quality players who want to be the best and can understand the future wasn't/isn't hopeless We are in the same position before signing all the expensive ufa , maybe worse and still not good enough (and gave up prospects and draft picks as well), only they are now on the team taking up cap and we can't afford anymore (thank goodness, our time wasn't/isn't yet) We really are not ahead of where we were , we had Horvat, Boeser, EP, Hughes and Miller (Demko) These are the players that will advance us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Benning signed MacEwen, Motte and Holtby. Great. But then lost 5 players (Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli, Stecher and Domingue) What the heck is going on? Is there a huge trade about to happen, or is Jim really going to allow the young guys in Utica play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckfanforlife82 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 What assets do we have to trade? Anything we trade is going to put us back. It’s a complete mess right now. Everyone is forgetting that he just got Toffoli for Madden and a second rounder. So LA got them for free. That’s is inexcusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said: What assets do we have to trade? Anything we trade is going to put us back. It’s a complete mess right now. Everyone is forgetting that he just got Toffoli for Madden and a second rounder. So LA got them for free. That’s is inexcusable. LA is building a monster: Byfield Turcotte Andersson Vilardi Kupari Bjornfot Kaliyev Madden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocanuck Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 So we are now 8 million under the cap and need an additional 14 or so next two years. How is Benning supposed to sign a big name when we have how much money left? The canucks are still up against it for another two years when both lu’s hits are finally gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, kanucks25 said: If everything works out, sure. IMO Hamonic is a downgrade on Tanev, but he if he can play up to his top potential then he's a fine replacement. And then Markstrom, who has been lights out for about the last season and a half; Holtby is coming off a terrible season + two not-so-great seasons prior, and Demko (although incredible in the playoffs) has to prove he can carry the #1 load over the course of a full season. If these two things work out (+ Toffoli), we are sort of back to square 1. But the point was to improve, however it looks like it won't be possible this summer to due some of the contracts that have been talked about a lot already. Really, because management is either unwilling or incapable of moving out cap, we'll have to be patient (some more) while cap clears up. Yup. It's a downgrade IMO but I think between Demko/Holtby you can get good enough goaltending, and Hamonic just has to play with Hughes. As u say it feels like improving the roster isn't going to happen. Seemed like we had alot of options just last week, now here we are. OEL, Markstrom, Tanev, Stecher all gone & now the door closed on Toffoli. I hear this talk about taking a step back for a year or 2... I know it's Covid times, but are we really just going to flush the momentum from our playoff run down the toilet? I hope not. Edited October 12, 2020 by Smashian Kassian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallAfterLife Posted October 12, 2020 Author Share Posted October 12, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 9:22 PM, ba;;isticsports said: Signing overpaid vets to teach them is also overrated imo, some were citing we'll be like the Oilers ! Damn with no regard to the quality guys like Horvat and EP and Hughes who have worked to always get better and be the best they can, I will use the Oilers myself then, why can't we be like a different Oilers team, when their best players were 20 yr olds that thrive off each other to grow, have fun, compete and win Cups ? There are many roads that will lead you to the same destination, my road was show some patience and restraint (it sure would be nice to have all that cap and prospects and picks lost now wouldn't it) would have saved money too, but looks like we have to eat it now for a bit, while losing all of that in the meantime and while not being any further ahead There was no way for Benning to predict whether he would get high character players like Pettersson and Hughes at the draft. There was also no way of knowing how Pettersson and Hughes would develop at the NHL level. Had Pettersson and Hughes not fallen the Canucks could very well have drafted a different set of players that needed more veteran leadership around them. Had Benning filled the roster with cheap AHL bubble players around prospects like Filip Zadina or Cody Glass or god forbid Lias Andersson people would be asking why a bunch of plugs were ruining our young players. It's easy to say that the Canucks don't need mentors after we've seen Pettersson and Hughes perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) So right now we have Miller Pettersson Boeser Pearson Horvat Virtanen Roussel Sutter Gaudette Mackewen Beagle Motte Hughes Myers Edler Juolevi Benn Rafferty Demko Holtby Benning better have something up his sleeve cause that's a lottery team Edited October 12, 2020 by 10pavelbure96 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 19 hours ago, 24K PureCool said: At least if there is any year to take a step back and treat it as a development year, it is the 2021 season as it is most likely a shortened one if there is one at all. but is the owner ready for a step back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckfanforlife82 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Squamfan said: but is the owner ready for a step back? It might have very well been the owner who made these decisions. He lost money and is going to lose money. It always comes down to money. They are part of the problem as well. Edited October 12, 2020 by Canuckfanforlife82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said: It might have very well been the owner who made these decisions. He lost money and is going to lose money. It always comes down to money. They are part of the problem as well. The fact we offered $5 mil to Barrie makes me think otherwise. Spending to the cap was never the problem. Benning proved me wrong alright. I was actually starting to believe he had a plan and was capable of navigating out of the cap hell hole he dug himself. This feels like 2016 all over again. Go all in to make the playoffs. Then come away with no picks and a bad offseason. 2021 looking like a write off. We capped out in a historically low cost UFA season. By the time the dead contracts fall off. Benning is going to pay premium for mid to bottom tier players in a sellers market. Book it. Edited October 12, 2020 by DSVII 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuckfanforlife82 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DSVII said: The fact we offered $5 mil to Barrie makes me think otherwise. Spending to the cap was never the problem. Benning proved me wrong alright. I was actually starting to believe he had a plan and was capable of navigating out of the cap hell hole he dug himself. This feels like 2016 all over again. Go all in to make the playoffs. Then come away with no picks and a bad offseason. 2021 looking like a write off. Nothing was confirmed that we offered him 5 million. That's speculation but 2021 was basically a wasted year and in a lot of ways set us back when we traded for Toffoli. It always seems they have looked for quick fixes. This way of thinking has in fact put them even farther back. Edited October 12, 2020 by Canuckfanforlife82 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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