[Rumour] Alex Pietrangelo to test free agency

[Pears]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Florida scouts believed he was better than these guys.  In hindsight it did not turn out that way but at the time of the trade he was a highly touted prospect.  You can't use hindsight to claim that Florida did not give up anything of value. 

And just because Florida’s scouts thought he was better than those players mentioned doesn’t technically mean they were right.

[grandmaster]

I’ve thought of this for a while now and came to a realization that no matter the cost, you get this guy. 
 

AP is in his prime, a bonafide number one right shot defenceman and is worth it. 

 

I don’t care what picks or prospects, even one of Hogs or Pods, that we have to give up to clear the cap space a la LE / Sutter / Rousell dumps. 
 

I’m glad we didn’t try for EK as that guy really sucks in the defensive zone. AP is the complete package. 
 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by grandmaster

[peaches5]

16 minutes ago, Provost said:

Wait... now you don't want to be bold anymore and want to play it "safe" by not being willing to give up assets for a young D?  I mentioned just a few possibilities in the above post you quoted.  We can also just sign Tanev to a relatively short term deal and then pick up cheaper D just before expansion when the trade market is severely depressed because teams can't protect them.

@oldnews and I can't agree on whether water is wet... and if both of us agree that signing Pietrangelo is probably a bad idea, that might be worth considering
 

You didn't mention anything in the post you quoted me in or the post I quoted. I am not going to sift through your posts and look for proposals you've previously made.  I am asking you to tell me which young players? If you are not going to tell me who you have in mind then how am I to know if its worth it? and I said I don't see any of these good young Dman, who I think would be worth it, being available - the question is on you of who you think is available? You know who might be available and only costs $$$ Pietrangelo. 

 

Not only this but I asked you specifically which number 1 dman that was signed at age 30 didn't pan out and you completely ignored it. Now you've also added "cheaper D" and have not mentioned one D. I have looked at all the D who might be available based on who I think would be protected come the expansion draft, yes there are some teams that will acquire some D and more will be added to that list but there are none that are even remotely close to Pietrangelo. Infact, one of the best ones who might, and that is a very small might, is Myers and I would take Pietrangelo at 9m over Myers at 6m any day of the week. 

 

Your posts have no substance at all. You get called out and then just start barking and hope people just go away. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by peaches5

[mll]

9 minutes ago, Pears said:

And just because Florida’s scouts thought he was better than those players mentioned doesn’t technically mean they were right.

We can all agree that they were wrong in drafting Crouse.  Still when they traded him to off-load that Bolland contract he was still seen as a very highly touted prospect.  They paid a premium to get rid of Bolland.  At the time of the trade they couldn't know that Crouse would not succeed.

[Provost]

23 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

You didn't mention anything in the post you quoted me in or the post I quoted. I am not going to sift through your posts and look for proposals you've previously made.  I am asking you to tell me which young players? If you are not going to tell me who you have in mind then how am I to know if its worth it? and I said I don't see any of these good young Dman, who I think would be worth it, being available - the question is on you of who you think is available? You know who might be available and only costs $$$ Pietrangelo. 

 

Not only this but I asked you specifically which number 1 dman that was signed at age 30 didn't pan out and you completely ignored it. Now you've also added "cheaper D" and have not mentioned one D. I have looked at all the D who might be available based on who I think would be protected come the expansion draft, yes there are some teams that will acquire some D and more will be added to that list but there are none that are even remotely close to Pietrangelo. Infact, one of the best ones who might, and that is a very small might, is Myers and I would take Pietrangelo at 9m over Myers at 6m any day of the week. 

 

Your posts have no substance at all. You get called out and then just start barking and hope people just go away. 

Yes, a list of suggested D were in fact in a post of mine you quoted just before this.

 

Erik Karlsson as the most recent example of how signing an aging #1 D hasn’t worked out.  He was two years younger than Pietrangelo will be by the time his contract kicks in.  There are a myriad of other D over 30 that are amongst  the most highly paid in the league that are significantly underperforming their contracts... there are few guys that age over performing their contracts.

 

Demanding others do all the work for you is an intellectually dishonest method of debate.  I said history has shown that signing aging UFAs has historically not worked out.  That is well known and shouldn’t need to be spoon fed to you.  The discussion we were having is whether OUR team should accept that for short term gain.

 

Some support for my statement that history shows signing aging free agents to long term contracts doesn’t often work out.  A simple google unearthed many similar articles and research.

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nhl.nbcsports.com/2019/07/05/nhl-free-agency-most-long-term-contracts-will-end-in-trade-or-buyout/amp/

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Provost

[86Viking]

10 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

I’ve thought of this for a while now and came to a realization that no matter the cost, you get this guy. 
AP is in his prime, a bonafide number one right shot defenceman and is worth it. 

 

I don’t care what picks or prospects, even one of Hogs or Pods, that we have to give up to clear the cap space a la LE / Sutter / Rousell dumps. 
 

I’m glad we didn’t try for EK as that guy really sucks in the defensive zone. AP is the complete package. 

I agree, but I would NOT give him a 7  year term. We would have to move out at least Sutter and Sven no retention along with Roussel and ideally LE with minimal retention if possible.

 

It is too bad we have the Giraffe with so much term left, If we could somehow get AP for 5-6 years @ 8-9m cap hit that would be nice. I would then keep Tanev 3 year 12m and Trade the Giraffee to free up 6m.

 

It is almost unlikely the Giraffe gets dealt, but a team like Edm or Cal could look to shore up the RHD. Likely can sign Barrie, Hamonic, Schultz, demelo, Bogo, Shattenkirk for shorter term and lower cap hits tho.

 

If we made a legit push for AP I would try to move Giraffe and then keep Tanev, try to trade for Cernak for this D core

 

Hughes AP

Edler Cernak ( via trade)

OJ Tanev

[Pears]

1 minute ago, Canuckster86 said:

I agree, but I would NOT give him a 7  year term. We would have to move out at least Sutter and Sven no retention along with Roussel and ideally LE with minimal retention if possible.

 

It is too bad we have the Giraffe with so much term left, If we could somehow get AP for 5-6 years @ 8-9m cap hit that would be nice. I would then keep Tanev 3 year 12m and Trade the Giraffee to free up 6m.

 

It is almost unlikely the Giraffe gets dealt, but a team like Edm or Cal could look to shore up the RHD. Likely can sign Barrie, Hamonic, Schultz, demelo, Bogo, Shattenkirk for shorter term and lower cap hits tho.

 

If we made a legit push for AP I would try to move Giraffe and then keep Tanev, try to trade for Cernak for this D core

 

Hughes AP

Edler Cernak ( via trade)

OJ Tanev

That’s my dream defense right there. Although I think if we’d be getting both AP as well as Cernak that would mean goodbye to Tanev. Which would suck but in the long run those two guys would improve our defense tremendously. 

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

I agree, but I would NOT give him a 7  year term.

then you might need to dream on.

 

you guys are talking - on the one hand - of your dream 1RHD....and how rare those players are...still in his prime.

But hoping to hedge on the term. 

 

St Louis is offering him more term - but hedging on disclosing the structure of the deal - and it looks like enough to make him walk.

Perhaps I'm being too "realist" here, but I think you guys are dreaming - and in the process possibly devaluing the assets/options we do actually have, to make your case.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by oldnews

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, Canuckster86 said:

I agree, but I would NOT give him a 7  year term. We would have to move out at least Sutter and Sven no retention along with Roussel and ideally LE with minimal retention if possible.

 

It is too bad we have the Giraffe with so much term left, If we could somehow get AP for 5-6 years @ 8-9m cap hit that would be nice. I would then keep Tanev 3 year 12m and Trade the Giraffee to free up 6m.

 

It is almost unlikely the Giraffe gets dealt, but a team like Edm or Cal could look to shore up the RHD. Likely can sign Barrie, Hamonic, Schultz, demelo, Bogo, Shattenkirk for shorter term and lower cap hits tho.

 

If we made a legit push for AP I would try to move Giraffe and then keep Tanev, try to trade for Cernak for this D core

 

Hughes AP

Edler Cernak ( via trade)

OJ Tanev

You really don’t like Meyers eh? Lol

 

I think he is a good defenceman, he is only over paid by about a mill but was necessary given how dire our defence was at the time. 

I would like for him to remain. He is our Willie Mitchell that does well clearing the net from big forwards and Chara like in using his stick to break up plays. 
 

I think we are looking for a min 7 year contract for AP. He knows this will be his final one so I don’t think there is an option there. He probably will still be effective at 37. 

 

[gizmo2337]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

Honest question, but who brings what Pietrangelo brings without having to give up assets other than cash?

Not sure, so I came up with a list. Criteria I used is RD, someone that hits and/or blocks shots. Included  salary  vs production for comparison. Brenden Dillion looks pretty good.Via trade, I like Connor Murphy, but that won't happen. Dylan DeMelo is affordable for what he brings.

 

Which of the below are the best puck movers?

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by gizmo2337

[86Viking]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

then you might need to dream on.

All depends on the cap hit, it would be great to get a top end RHD, its a risk, but at least you are saving your assets in trying to trade for said RHD. But in the small chance we could sign him it would mean we might need to use some of those prized assets to off load some contracts.

 

We can't let marky go and Tanev and bring in AP and think we will be a better team. A decent back up G/1b is going to cost 2-3.5m as well. Let alone Toff and our RFA's. Think it is just too much for JB to shuffle around in a short amount of time. He couldnt move 1 bad contract last summer or at the TDL so for him to move 1,2,3 of them in 2 weeks...unlikely unless he attaches high end pieces with them...

[86Viking]

Just now, grandmaster said:

You really don’t like Meyers eh? Lol

 

I think he is a good defenceman, he is only over paid by about a mill but was necessary given how dire our defence was at the time. 

I would like for him to remain. He is our Willie Mitchell that does well clearing the net from big forwards and Chara like in using his stick to break up plays. 
 

I think we are looking for a min 7 year contract for AP. He knows this will be his final one so I don’t think there is an option there. He probably will still be effective at 37. 

 

Nope, he got a raise even tho he was sheltered in Winterpeg. He would have been worth a 3yr max 5m per year player with 0 NMC or NTC protection. He has never lived up to his hype, so to think he will be around for 4 more years makes me shake my head. Hopefully he don't protect him and Seattle will take him off our hands. Especially if we somehow manage to land a legit top 4 RHD and retain tanev on a 2-4 year contract max at 4m or so.

[peaches5]

10 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yes, a list of suggested D were in fact in a post of mine you quoted just before this.

 

Erik Karlsson as the most recent example of how signing an aging #1 D hasn’t worked out.  He was two years younger than Pietrangelo will be by the time his contract kicks in.  There are a myriad of other D over 30 that are amongst  the most highly paid in the league that are significantly underperforming their contracts... there are few guys that age over performing their contracts.

 

Demanding others do all the work for you is an intellectually dishonest method of debate.  I said history has shown that signing aging UFAs has historically not worked out.  That is well known and shouldn’t need to be spoon fed to you.  The discussion we were having is whether OUR team should accept that for short term gain.

Erik Karlsson was coming of major ankle surgery and in the following year he had non stop injuries with his groin and then was signed to a big contract that was incredibly risky due to his health. That is not at all comparable to signing Pietrangelo. 

 

Are you kidding me? That is exactly what you are doing.  You provide absolutely nothing of substance.  "We will just sign a cheaper D" "Number 1 Dman signed at 30 are risky "We will just trade for a young D"  I asked you to provide examples cause I know there are none and you just have a little hissy fit. There is nothing intellectual about anything you post its just a bunch of nonsense. 

 

[gizmo2337]

21 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

I agree, but I would NOT give him a 7  year term. We would have to move out at least Sutter and Sven no retention along with Roussel and ideally LE with minimal retention if possible.

 

It is too bad we have the Giraffe with so much term left, If we could somehow get AP for 5-6 years @ 8-9m cap hit that would be nice. I would then keep Tanev 3 year 12m and Trade the Giraffee to free up 6m.

 

It is almost unlikely the Giraffe gets dealt, but a team like Edm or Cal could look to shore up the RHD. Likely can sign Barrie, Hamonic, Schultz, demelo, Bogo, Shattenkirk for shorter term and lower cap hits tho.

 

If we made a legit push for AP I would try to move Giraffe and then keep Tanev, try to trade for Cernak for this D core

 

Hughes AP

Edler Cernak ( via trade)

OJ Tanev

I think Rathbone is going to surprise and not only make the team, but have a huge contribution. He's dynamic enough that he might even QB PP2 later next season.

[86Viking]

My guess, TO trades Nylander for a 2nd pair RHD on a cheapish contract, maybe looks to off load Kerfoot or Johnsson then takes the cap savings to sign AP to play with Rielly.

 

Then you can probably keep Anderson in net as he would have a pretty legit top 4 D in front of him. But I hope Dubas doesn't do any of that so they don't get AP. Laffs can continue to be a failure till the day I die, which is hopefully still 4-5 decades away!

[86Viking]

2 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I think Rathbone is going to surprise and not only make the team, but have a huge contribution. He's dynamic enough that he might even QB PP2 later next season.

I hope so too, but likely to start in press box or get bottom pair sheltered minutes while he adjusts to NHL level hockey. I wonder if there is anyway to send him to Euro now to get some ice time in a decent league until camp? Might not want to leave his family tho?

 

No need to rush Jack, if he does well great but I think OJ is more "ready" to get NHL minutes. But really comes down to what we end up doing with our UFA/RFA's and who we add in FA.

[flickyoursedin]

4 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I think Rathbone is going to surprise and not only make the team, but have a huge contribution. He's dynamic enough that he might even QB PP2 later next season.

I think even if he’s slightly better than Juolevi and Rafferty in camp he still gets sent down next year. Juolevi and Rafferty are worth NHL season game looks. If Rathbone makes the team then you have to waive one of these guys. I think Rathbone will surprise and look great but I wouldn’t be shocked if they give him a full year in the AHL. Don’t rush the kid! Let him play 20+ minutes in every role in the AHL than 11 minutes every other night in the NHL.

[UKNuck96]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Cash (cap space) is very valuable... more so over the next 3-5 years then ever.  An anchor of a declining guy in 3 years with 3+ years remaining would be really problematic for us in years we want to be adding pieces and contending.

There are a bunch of younger D purportedly available (for a price).  I take Ristolainen, Cernak, Philipe Myers, Dumba, Ekblad, Deangelo, etc. even at a cost in trade instead of taking on a bad cap liability.

A guy like Cernak could be had for an offer sheet Tampa couldn't match... and the compensation is only a 2nd round pick for a $4 million salary and has a ton of upside still.

Pietrangelo will turn 31 just as he plays his first games for his new team.  I think we can all agree that his cap hit is going to be north of $7 million, maybe even north of $8 million if he is going to UFA and chasing a final contract with several suitors.  Not a lot of over defencemen merit top pairing dollars into their mid to late 30's, there are a few... but they are exceptions.  This is going to be a high danger signing and needs to be by a team that is willing to sacrifice future risk for success in the next 1-3 years.

If we could prise P.Myers from the flyers i would be very happy, young RFA with size potential and upside that even if he didn’t pan out wouldn’t be an anchor contract, and could be a long term feature for the team.

[flickyoursedin]

If the Canucks can offload Eriksson and potentially make the switch to Demko as the number 1 with a cheap backup that should be around what Pietrangelo would be making. Would have to get creative if he wanted to add other pieces.

[oldnews]

9 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

My guess, TO trades Nylander for a 2nd pair RHD on a cheapish contract, maybe looks to off load Kerfoot or Johnsson then takes the cap savings to sign AP to play with Rielly.

 

Then you can probably keep Anderson in net as he would have a pretty legit top 4 D in front of him. But I hope Dubas doesn't do any of that so they don't get AP. Laffs can continue to be a failure till the day I die, which is hopefully still 4-5 decades away!

 I think the idea that they can move double-flamingo for a top4 RHD, let alone a 'cheap one' is a bit of a pipe-dream in the present context.

They painted themselves into a corner and appear more likely to sit there, looking at the floor, fluffing themselves for what a nice shade of blue it is - than they are to make some hard decisions that would enable them to make an AP signing work.

 

I could see them, however, signing him with every ounce of cap they have available, and then shuffling to try to figure out how to deal with the other 6 or 8 players they'd need to fit under the cap....

 

Obviously I have no idea what AP himself would prefer - but the clock is ticking towards free agency, and of all the options out there that teams have in this relatively unusual offseason, I can't imagine that doing the Toronto Maple Leafs a favour is high on many GM's list.  Even if he considered Toronto a landing spot, I'm skeptical they could get the necessary prerequisites done in time.

 

Pietrangelo to Winnipeg would be where my money is.

And going to a team that had to rework the entire right side of their blueline last offseason would make a lot of sense imo - he would put them right back where they belong in the mix of highly competitive playoff teams.