2021 NHL Entry Draft

[HighOnHockey]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

He's not there yet with a 200ft game.  You can read all of the professional scouting reports on him.  I've watched him play and he's fantastic in the offensive zone, but definitely looks a bit lost in the defensive end.

I'd be curious to read some of these if you wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction.

 

22 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Hmm contradictory replies to a certain degree. Got an in-depth reponse that also stated he Is a responsible player.

Wonder which one it is 

 

I have seen criticisms from legitimate sources about his consistency of effort level in his own zone, but not his awareness or IQ. But I attribute this at least in part to what I was saying about Sillinger isn't hounding pucks down, but rather using his positioning and waiting for plays to develop. I'd be interested to read if there really are scouting reports to the contrary, but the most trustworthy source I can cite is Hockey Canada's coaching staff, who had Sillinger and Liam Arnsby as the top PK unit for Canada White at U17s. They even had a couple of three on fives, and one where a time out was called so you know Canada would go to their must trusted killers, and every time they went the two forward route with Sillinger, Arnsby and Lambos.

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

I'd be curious to read some of these if you wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction.

 

I have seen criticisms from legitimate sources about his consistency of effort level in his own zone, but not his awareness or IQ. But I attribute this at least in part to what I was saying about Sillinger isn't hounding pucks down, but rather using his positioning and waiting for plays to develop. I'd be interested to read if there really are scouting reports to the contrary, but the most trustworthy source I can cite is Hockey Canada's coaching staff, who had Sillinger and Liam Arnsby as the top PK unit for Canada White at U17s. They even had a couple of three on fives, and one where a time out was called so you know Canada would go to their must trusted killers, and every time they went the two forward route with Sillinger, Arnsby and Lambos.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.broadstreethockey.com/platform/amp/2021/6/23/22546735/nhl-philadelphia-flyers-bsh-2021-community-draft-board-no-12-cole-sillinger

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2021/03/08/dp-scouting-teams-2021-nhl-draft-rankings-march-2021/

 

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/05/17/cole-sillinger-scouting-report/amp/

 

Just a few examples of what I've seen in his play too.  There's also a shift by shift video on YouTube where you can clearly notice his defensive lapses in his game.  

 

 

[Nucker 67]

Who I think the BPAs are, but everyone's list is probably different

 

1. Power

2. Clarke

3. Wallstedt

4. Beniers

5. Eklund

6. Hughes

7. Edvinsson

8. Guenther

9. McTavish

 

10. Lysell

[appleboy]

3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

The last few Drafts, the Canucks got lucky, having Pettersson, Hughes and Podkolzin fall into their hands. 

 

Which player will that be the blessing in disguise this time?  

 

I'm now thinking EDVINSSON could be that player.  He's still ranked very high on some lists, but has dropped in others (because of a few recent games) and it's possible GMs pass on him to get McTavish, Lysell or Johnson or even take Ceulemans ahead. I suspect Wallstedt will go early as well. 

 

It should be about the long term. Can they develop Edvinsson into a high end top pairing defender? He's already got the size and skating for sure  Then it might be worth it. D wins championships.

 

 

Most of the complaints that I see about him is on the offensive side. I think that is perfect. We have the offense covered.

The Canucks need a big mobile defensive D man. Edvinsson has the bast wheels in this draft  bar none. He is also the most mobile . Forwards , backwards and laterally.  

Yes he has some defensive brain farts. He is 18.

 

[appleboy]

My perfect draft.

Get a top prospect at 9th.

Trade Schmidt for a lower first and land Lambos.

 

Edvinsson and Lambos        

 

Hmmmm

[86Viking]

7 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

According to Button

 

Best 6 Forwards - Beniers, Eklund, Guenther, L'Heureux, Svechkov, Coronato

 

Best 4 Dmen - Power, Clarke, Edvinsson, Hughes

 

 

So, how many would be happy getting L'Heureux, Coronato or Svechkov?  (and passing on McTavish, Johnson and Lysell)

 

How accurate has Button been over the years. Did he predict Petey? 

 

 

 

predicted Jake to be bang on to how he turned out, not sure about other Canuck selections we made where he had them in a lower spot etc. Nobody is going to have a 100% or even close to that record when it comes to predicting a teenagers future

[HighOnHockey]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.broadstreethockey.com/platform/amp/2021/6/23/22546735/nhl-philadelphia-flyers-bsh-2021-community-draft-board-no-12-cole-sillinger

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2021/03/08/dp-scouting-teams-2021-nhl-draft-rankings-march-2021/

 

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/05/17/cole-sillinger-scouting-report/amp/

 

Just a few examples of what I've seen in his play too.  There's also a shift by shift video on YouTube where you can clearly notice his defensive lapses in his game.  

 

 

 

Well I appreciate you actually looked those up. No idea who Drew Meyer is; doesn't seem like a particularly reliable source to me. Dobber is a decent publication; they say "[h]e has some rounding out to do as a player in terms of his defensive game but the talent is there" A far cry from your initial claim of "his defensive awareness is pretty bad." Last Word is decent, but I've found myself disagreeing with their assessments a few too many times in the past. I believe that was them who said Carson Lambos has some of the highest hockey IQ in the draft class. Hmmmm...

 

I mostly try to do my own scouting and don't spend much time reading other people's scouting reports now days, but a couple good sources are the Draft Analyst and especially Smaht Hockey. Kournianos doesn't have the best track record with his rankings, but he clearly watches a lot of prospects and his profiles are pretty useful and detailed. Smaht I had never heard of until this year but is quickly developing a reputation as a go-to source, with an impressive combination of analytics and highly detailed and insightful scouting reports. Kournianos is more strictly positive about Sillinger's defensive game. Smaht gives a detailed breakdown of both the positives and negatives, but overall they match up pretty well with what I've seen. 

 

https://smahtscouting.com/2021/02/04/scouting-report-cole-sillinger/

 

https://www.thedraftanalyst.com/2021-nhl-draft/2021-draft-profile-lw-c-cole-sillinger/

 

If you've read what I've said about Sillinger's defensive play, my emphasis has always been on his transition defense, which I believe is the best I've seen in the class among forwards (I have about 7 viewings). His in-zone defense is where some issues arise, but I think it is decent enough that overall he's one of the better defensive forwards in the draft, even if he's not on the level of a Svechkov or Beniers.

Edited July 11, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[Captain Canuck #12]

2 hours ago, appleboy said:

My perfect draft.

Get a top prospect at 9th.

Trade Schmidt for a lower first and land Lambos.

 

Edvinsson and Lambos        

 

Hmmmm

That sounds good, but considering what Benning is saying about getting back to a contender ASAP, there's no way he's trading one of his top four D for another future prospect.  We'll just be lucky is he doesn't trade the #9 pick to get someone who can help right away, then maybe for another year or two.

[HKSR]

45 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

Well I appreciate you actually looked those up. No idea who Drew Meyer is; doesn't seem like a particularly reliable source to me. Dobber is a decent publication; they say "[h]e has some rounding out to do as a player in terms of his defensive game but the talent is there" A far cry from your initial claim of "his defensive awareness is pretty bad." Last Word is decent, but I've found myself disagreeing with their assessments a few too many times in the past. I believe that was them who said Carson Lambos has some of the highest hockey IQ in the draft class. Hmmmm...

 

I mostly try to do my own scouting and don't spend much time reading other people's scouting reports now days, but a couple good sources are the Draft Analyst and especially Smaht Hockey. Kournianos doesn't have the best track record with his rankings, but he clearly watches a lot of prospects and his profiles are pretty useful and detailed. Smaht I had never heard of until this year but is quickly developing a reputation as a go-to source, with an impressive combination of analytics and highly detailed and insightful scouting reports. Kournianos is more strictly positive about Sillinger's defensive game. Smaht gives a detailed breakdown of both the positives and negatives, but overall they match up pretty well with what I've seen. 

 

https://smahtscouting.com/2021/02/04/scouting-report-cole-sillinger/

 

https://www.thedraftanalyst.com/2021-nhl-draft/2021-draft-profile-lw-c-cole-sillinger/

 

If you've read what I've said about Sillinger's defensive play, my emphasis has always been on his transition defense, which I believe is the best I've seen in the class among forwards (I have about 7 viewings). His in-zone defense is where some issues arise, but I think it is decent enough that overall he's one of the better defensive forwards in the draft, even if he's not on the level of a Svechkov or Beniers.

I have no problems with his transition play nor his abilities in the offensive end of the ice.  I think his forecheck game is great, but from what I've seen of him, and I think you agree as well, his defensive zone play has a lot of room for improvement.  When scouts say he gambles, they're basically saying nicely that he cheats out of the zone more often than he should.  Especially as a centreman.  One of your references even says he shouldn't be out their on the PK.  Hence my assessment of his poor defensive awareness.

 

Nevertheless, he's a mid 1st rounder in my mind.  A very high offensive ceiling, and would likely excel as a winger rather than a center.  Not someone I would count on for defensive duties as a 200ft 2-way centre. 

 

He's not a player that I think GMJB would have on his radar at 9OA.

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

I’m a Johnson & Johnson fan.

 

I want Kent Johnson at 9OA in the first round and Brent Johnson at 41OA in the second round.

[HockeyHarry]

Red Wing probably will take a Goalie 1st round,....

 

but not at #6 they’re looking for Left D or a center most favorably with size which is most likely McTavish but they also love the Michigan wolverines 4 players. (Powers, Beniers, Johnson and Luke H).

Wings also have #22 1st round so that will most likely be the Goalie pick, they also have multiple 2nd round picks , In total Wings got 12 picks and 7 in the top 3 rounds. So they got picks to work with to get their Goalie.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by HockeyHarry

[Jester13]

6 hours ago, appleboy said:

Most of the complaints that I see about him is on the offensive side. I think that is perfect. We have the offense covered.

The Canucks need a big mobile defensive D man. Edvinsson has the bast wheels in this draft  bar none. He is also the most mobile . Forwards , backwards and laterally.  

Yes he has some defensive brain farts. He is 18.

 

After watching the Scouching video on him, I'm not quite sold. He's a big defensive guy, but his passing sounds to be atrocious and taking him in the top ten could be a big risk.  D means nothing if you cant actually get the puck out or to your forwards, as we know with how our backend has been the last while. I think he's the guy to slip this year. 

[HighOnHockey]

 

11 hours ago, HKSR said:

I have no problems with his transition play nor his abilities in the offensive end of the ice.  I think his forecheck game is great, but from what I've seen of him, and I think you agree as well, his defensive zone play has a lot of room for improvement.  When scouts say he gambles, they're basically saying nicely that he cheats out of the zone more often than he should.  Especially as a centreman.  One of your references even says he shouldn't be out their on the PK.  Hence my assessment of his poor defensive awareness.

 

Nevertheless, he's a mid 1st rounder in my mind.  A very high offensive ceiling, and would likely excel as a winger rather than a center.  Not someone I would count on for defensive duties as a 200ft 2-way centre. 

 

He's not a player that I think GMJB would have on his radar at 9OA.

I get that the line between offense and defense is blurred somewhat when it comes to the forecheck, but the defensive zone is only one aspect of defensive play. Theoretically you could argue it is only one third of it - not that I would, but you get the point. Where he excels defensively is through the neutral zone.

 

I don't disagree that he cheats the zone a little too much, but to me that doesn't speak to his hockey IQ so much as just a tendency that could be fairly easily corrected, so long as the player is coachable. Sioux Falls was the second worst team in USHL this year, and I don't imagine corsi stats are available for USHL, but they gave up the most shots against per game in the league, which gives us a pretty good idea of how much time they spent in their zone. So I mean, when you spend that much time in your own zone and your teammates are constantly making mistakes, yeah there are going to be some breakdowns even for a good defensive player, and yeah for a player who makes his reputation as a goal-scorer first and foremost and can't get out of his own zone, there is going to be a temptation to want to cheat up. When they do get out of the DZ, your team isn't going to do a ton to help create offense in the OZ, so fast breaks are going to be some of your best opportunities to score.

 

With Canada White, he did still cheat a bit sometimes, but also he was mostly playing wing there. But he definitely didn't have the kind of breakdowns in his own zone that he does with Sioux Falls; in fact, I thought he was pretty strong in his own zone. The problems really only came when he just couldn't get to his spot on time, and that was the point I addressed in my first post of this debate, that his skating is a legit cause for concern, but in my mind the only major one.

 

Yes, I saw the comment in the scouting report about he shouldn't kill penalties, and as much as I like Smaht Scouting, I have a lot more trust in the Hockey Canada coaches who had Sillinger as the first guy over the boards for every penalty kill. This sums it up right here: https://video.hockeycanada.ca/en/c/wu17hc-nov-07-canada-white-vs-canada-red.104109 if you start at 2:05:50. You can assess his PKing for yourself, but what I want to point out is he and Arnsby are out for the kill initially, then after about 30 seconds they get off and rest for about 15 seconds of game time before the team takes another penalty, and sure enough they are right back out there for the three on five for another 50 seconds. I'm sure the team's coaches know more about these players than us or any internet scouts, and they decided that Sillinger and Arsnby were the guys they needed out for those important kills.

Edited July 11, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[Beary Sweet]

With Edler being a pending FA, there's a strong chance we could pick one of D. Even though we are pretty strong on D especially on LD with Schmidt, Juolevi, Rathbone and with Jurmo in the wings, there's no de facto #2 D. Hughes is our best D on left while our RD could use an upgrade with just Myers being our most dependable. We could potentially end up with one of Hughes, Edvinsson, Clarke. That would be huge. But there's also a good chance we pick a FWD. Guenther, Lysell, Johnson, McTavish, Lucius would all be considered as well. What's our most pressing need? A legit #2 D or top 6 FWD? 

[Devron]

4 minutes ago, Beary Sweet said:

With Edler being a pending FA, there's a strong chance we could pick one of D. Even though we are pretty strong on D especially on LD with Schmidt, Juolevi, Rathbone and with Jurmo in the wings, there's no de facto #2 D. Hughes is our best D on left while our RD could use an upgrade with just Myers being our most dependable. We could potentially end up with one of Hughes, Edvinsson, Clarke. That would be huge. But there's also a good chance we pick a FWD. Guenther, Lysell, Johnson, McTavish, Lucius would all be considered as well. What's our most pressing need? A legit #2 D or top 6 FWD? 

Take the best player Sweet. Chances are whoever we pick will be a year or 2 away from playing. Imo hard to pass on any of the top 4 Dman if any of them fall though 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Getting really excited now for draft day now (assuming we don’t do something stupid and trade the 9OA).

 

Much as I wasn’t a fan of dropping draft position (the closing games of this season, especially that ridiculous make up series against the Flames, were probably the one time in the last few years when we could’ve actually tanked with honour), I’m actually more comfortable drafting at 9 than at 6. No pressure to get it right, just take the guy that falls to us and is considered consensus BPA (most likely, it’s going to be a no-brainer, just based on how this draft shakes out, as far as rankings and player tiers).
 

Pretty much guaranteed we’re getting a “steal” with whoever falls to us at 9th overall. And there will be at least a couple dozen scouts who will be saying that whoever we take is a top-5 talent in this draft.

 

I can already hear Benning saying “we didn’t think he’d be available at 9th overall, as we had him much higher” .

 

So long as we don’t do anything crazy and go off the board, it’s pretty much a guarantee we’ll come out of the first round considered a “winner” at this year’s draft.

 

And much as the first round will be exciting to watch, day two will be even more interesting. Good chance we pick up another “first round talent” with our second pick, and there are loads of intriguing prospects expected to be available through the middle rounds.

 

And, of course, the late round “steals” are always interesting. Hopefully we take some homerun swings on high risk/reward types. 

 

Can’t wait to see our next crop of prospects revealed. Hopefully we come away with a nice haul.

[Canuck Surfer]

3C or 2LW early in the 3rd round? Had a very credible 2019/20 season as a 16 year old in the  OHL. This year played in Europe for a chance to play. Just turned 18.

 

6'3'' dude who hunts on the forecheck, credited for an intelligent game. Knows how to score by being in the right plave at the right time...

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/529247/brett-harrison

 

 

[Wolfgang Durst]

16 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

3C or 2LW early in the 3rd round? Had a very credible 2019/20 season as a 16 year old in the  OHL. This year played in Europe for a chance to play. Just turned 18.

 

6'3'' dude who hunts on the forecheck, credited for an intelligent game. Knows how to score by being in the right plave at the right time...

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/529247/brett-harrison

 

 

oh Canuck Surfer....

When was the last time the Canucks got a 3C out of the later rounds (2nd round or later)?

Can't remember... ..

Maybe you can help me .

Thanks.

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

oh Canuck Surfer....

When was the last time the Canucks got a 3C out of the later rounds (2nd round or later)?

Can't remember... ..

Maybe you can help me .

Thanks.

 

 

[HKSR]

8 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

 

I get that the line between offense and defense is blurred somewhat when it comes to the forecheck, but the defensive zone is only one aspect of defensive play. Theoretically you could argue it is only one third of it - not that I would, but you get the point. Where he excels defensively is through the neutral zone.

 

I don't disagree that he cheats the zone a little too much, but to me that doesn't speak to his hockey IQ so much as just a tendency that could be fairly easily corrected, so long as the player is coachable. Sioux Falls was the second worst team in USHL this year, and I don't imagine corsi stats are available for USHL, but they gave up the most shots against per game in the league, which gives us a pretty good idea of how much time they spent in their zone. So I mean, when you spend that much time in your own zone and your teammates are constantly making mistakes, yeah there are going to be some breakdowns even for a good defensive player, and yeah for a player who makes his reputation as a goal-scorer first and foremost and can't get out of his own zone, there is going to be a temptation to want to cheat up. When they do get out of the DZ, your team isn't going to do a ton to help create offense in the OZ, so fast breaks are going to be some of your best opportunities to score.

 

With Canada White, he did still cheat a bit sometimes, but also he was mostly playing wing there. But he definitely didn't have the kind of breakdowns in his own zone that he does with Sioux Falls; in fact, I thought he was pretty strong in his own zone. The problems really only came when he just couldn't get to his spot on time, and that was the point I addressed in my first post of this debate, that his skating is a legit cause for concern, but in my mind the only major one.

 

Yes, I saw the comment in the scouting report about he shouldn't kill penalties, and as much as I like Smaht Scouting, I have a lot more trust in the Hockey Canada coaches who had Sillinger as the first guy over the boards for every penalty kill. This sums it up right here: https://video.hockeycanada.ca/en/c/wu17hc-nov-07-canada-white-vs-canada-red.104109 if you start at 2:05:50. You can assess his PKing for yourself, but what I want to point out is he and Arnsby are out for the kill initially, then after about 30 seconds they get off and rest for about 15 seconds of game time before the team takes another penalty, and sure enough they are right back out there for the three on five for another 50 seconds. I'm sure the team's coaches know more about these players than us or any internet scouts, and they decided that Sillinger and Arsnby were the guys they needed out for those important kills.

Well, I guess time will tell.  I, along with many others that have scouted his play, just don't see him having that strong 2-way defensive game as a centre.  Like I said, I think he excels as a winger because he is stronger along the boards.  He looks simply lost in the middle of the zone.  We can revisit in the future.