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goalie13

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alt kilgore Canucks Franchise Player

alt kilgore

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

So why are you implying someone who doesn’t believe that cloth or disposable masks work should go work in a COVID ward without proper protection?

 

lol. You want to have your cake and eat it too. 

If you don't think COVID is an any kind of serious threat, then why wouldn't you, if you could choose, NOT wear an uncomfortable, hot, unnecessary thing over your face?  Its all overblown AmIright?

So the person closest to advocating a person "should go work in a COVID ward without proper protection" is you!

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Dumb Nuck Canucks First-Line

Dumb Nuck

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Posted
49 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

lol. You want to have your cake and eat it too. 

If you don't think COVID is an any kind of serious threat, then why wouldn't you, if you could choose, NOT wear an uncomfortable, hot, unnecessary thing over your face?  Its all overblown AmIright?

So the person closest one to advocating a person "should go work in a COVID ward without proper protection" is you!

 

 

 

 

That makes absolutely no sense and irregardless I never stated my opinions of masks or COVID, just asked a question. 

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Baggins Canucks Franchise Player

Baggins

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

So why are you implying someone who doesn’t believe that cloth or disposable masks work should go work in a COVID ward without proper protection?

Stating the obvious here: if they don't believe masks work why would they wear one in the ward? Either it's "proper protection" rejecting their own claim. or they are better of without it despite being in the ward as that's what they seem to believe.

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alt kilgore Canucks Franchise Player

alt kilgore

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3 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

That makes absolutely no sense and irregardless I never stated my opinions of masks or COVID, just asked a question. 

 

3 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

 

I will never be convinced that sticking something in front of your mouth and nose that captures what your body is trying to shed then festers bacteria that grows in that

warm, moist environment  that you suck back into your lungs can be healthy.

 

What really scares me is how our rights are being sacrificed and Marks dismissal is just another example

 

don’t be a sheep and believe people that lie for a living

 

I believe masks do more harm than good

 

Sorry but seatbelts and hard hats don’t do more harm than good, I  believe masks do

 

Like I said, I’ll wear one where forced to but will go out of my way to avoid it

 

Besides most people don’t use masks properly then run around like they’re bullet proof, how many of those caused death?

 

Forgive me for thinking you had stated your opinions of masks, or COVID.

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alt kilgore Canucks Franchise Player

alt kilgore

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

I will never be convinced that sticking something in front of your mouth and nose that captures what your body is trying to shed then festers bacteria that grows in that

warm, moist environment  that you suck back into your lungs can be healthy.

Okay Dumb Nuck, 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If its simply that you are not convinced that wearing a cloth mask is not bad for your health, I'm gonna do you a favour. I googled about info on... can masks be dangerous.  First three results, were from medical themed sites.  Here are some excerpts for your reading. I hope it brings you some comfort:

 

https://www.lung.org/blog/covid-masks

American Lung Association:

 

While high quality research regarding mask use is limited, all of the data supports mask wearing as a key public health measure to decrease viral spread.

 

For the general public, the reason for wearing a facial covering is to help protect others from you when you cough, sneeze or even talk and spray viral droplets into the air.  Many people who become infected can unknowingly spread the COVID-19 virus because they have few or no symptoms. So wearing a mask is showing respect for others and is your way of helping lessen the spread of the disease.

 

Do Masks Cause Low Oxygen Levels?

Absolutely not. We wear masks all day long in the hospital. The masks are designed to be breathed through and there is no evidence that low oxygen levels occur. There is some evidence, however, that prolonged use of N-95 masks in patients with preexisting lung disease could cause some build-up of carbon dioxide levels in the body. People with preexisting lung problems should discuss mask wearing concerns with their health care providers. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that mask wearing or physical distancing weakens the immune system.

 

Mask wearing allows us to open the economy up faster. Not wearing a mask around others only worsens the pandemic, leads to more disease, and worsens the economic effects.

 

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=26712&publicId=395

Hartford Healthcare

 

Killer COVID-19 Masks? The Truth About Trapped Carbon Dioxide

 

COVID-19 can kill. Now, according to a misguided Internet-fueled theory, masks can kill, too.

 

All it takes is a mask-wearer who inhales freshly exhaled carbon dioxide repeatedly until dizzy, unconscious or dead. That, no doubt, would be a shocking development. In the real world, the average mask user without preexisting respiratory illness has nothing to worry about — except COVID-19.

Only an airtight mask could possibly cause any breathing difficulty. That eliminates cloth masks, the preferred personal protective equipment in public. It actually eliminates N95 respirators, too, usually reserved for healthcare professionals. They fit tighter than a cloth mask but still not tight enough on the face to kill. Surgeons wear even more substantial face coverings all day without endangering their health.

 

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/does-wearing-face-mask-increase-co2-levels

Explore Heath

 

Does Wearing a Face Mask Reduce Oxygen—and Can It Increase CO2 Levels? Here's What Experts Say

 

So is it possible that wearing a face mask as part of social distancing can cause someone to build up so much carbon dioxide and get so little oxygen that they pass out, or worse? Carbon dioxide is a natural by-product of the body’s respiration process, something we all breathe in and out every day. How harmful can it be?

 

In rare cases, it can actually be pretty dangerous, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH). They say that inhaling high levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) may be life-threatening. Hypercapnia (carbon dioxide toxicity) can also cause headache, vertigo, double vision, inability to concentrate, tinnitus (hearing a noise, like a ringing or buzzing, that’s not caused by an outside source), seizures, or suffocation due to displacement of air.  

But the emphasis here should be on high levels. “It has to be a pretty high concentration to be capable of causing harm,” Bill Carroll, PhD, an adjunct professor of chemistry at Indiana University, Bloomington, tells Health. “CO2 is present in the atmosphere at a level of about 0.04%. It is dangerous in an atmosphere when it is greater than about 10%.” 

 

I think it’s highly unlikely that you would pass out from a lack of oxygen with a cloth mask, which generally doesn’t fit tightly to your face. When you exhale or inhale, air can go around the mask as well through the pores in the material. This is why a cloth mask does not absolutely protect you from inhaling the virus, but by disturbing your exhalation flow it tends to protect those around you from aerosols in your breath.”

Carroll doubts that any cloth face covering would ever fit against the face so tight that someone would pass out from a lack of oxygen. “You’d take it off because it’s uncomfortable well before that happens,” he says. 

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Dumb Nuck Canucks First-Line

Dumb Nuck

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Okay Dumb Nuck, 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If its simply that you are not convinced that wearing a cloth mask is not bad for your health, I'm gonna do you a favour. I googled about info on... can masks be dangerous.  First three results, were from medical themed sites.  Here are some excerpts for your reading. I hope it brings you some comfort:

 

https://www.lung.org/blog/covid-masks

American Lung Association:

 

While high quality research regarding mask use is limited, all of the data supports mask wearing as a key public health measure to decrease viral spread.

 

For the general public, the reason for wearing a facial covering is to help protect others from you when you cough, sneeze or even talk and spray viral droplets into the air.  Many people who become infected can unknowingly spread the COVID-19 virus because they have few or no symptoms. So wearing a mask is showing respect for others and is your way of helping lessen the spread of the disease.

 

Do Masks Cause Low Oxygen Levels?

Absolutely not. We wear masks all day long in the hospital. The masks are designed to be breathed through and there is no evidence that low oxygen levels occur. There is some evidence, however, that prolonged use of N-95 masks in patients with preexisting lung disease could cause some build-up of carbon dioxide levels in the body. People with preexisting lung problems should discuss mask wearing concerns with their health care providers. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that mask wearing or physical distancing weakens the immune system.

 

Mask wearing allows us to open the economy up faster. Not wearing a mask around others only worsens the pandemic, leads to more disease, and worsens the economic effects.

 

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleid=26712&publicId=395

Hartford Healthcare

 

Killer COVID-19 Masks? The Truth About Trapped Carbon Dioxide

 

COVID-19 can kill. Now, according to a misguided Internet-fueled theory, masks can kill, too.

 

All it takes is a mask-wearer who inhales freshly exhaled carbon dioxide repeatedly until dizzy, unconscious or dead. That, no doubt, would be a shocking development. In the real world, the average mask user without preexisting respiratory illness has nothing to worry about — except COVID-19.

Only an airtight mask could possibly cause any breathing difficulty. That eliminates cloth masks, the preferred personal protective equipment in public. It actually eliminates N95 respirators, too, usually reserved for healthcare professionals. They fit tighter than a cloth mask but still not tight enough on the face to kill. Surgeons wear even more substantial face coverings all day without endangering their health.

 

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/does-wearing-face-mask-increase-co2-levels

Explore Heath

 

Does Wearing a Face Mask Reduce Oxygen—and Can It Increase CO2 Levels? Here's What Experts Say

 

So is it possible that wearing a face mask as part of social distancing can cause someone to build up so much carbon dioxide and get so little oxygen that they pass out, or worse? Carbon dioxide is a natural by-product of the body’s respiration process, something we all breathe in and out every day. How harmful can it be?

 

In rare cases, it can actually be pretty dangerous, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH). They say that inhaling high levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) may be life-threatening. Hypercapnia (carbon dioxide toxicity) can also cause headache, vertigo, double vision, inability to concentrate, tinnitus (hearing a noise, like a ringing or buzzing, that’s not caused by an outside source), seizures, or suffocation due to displacement of air.  

But the emphasis here should be on high levels. “It has to be a pretty high concentration to be capable of causing harm,” Bill Carroll, PhD, an adjunct professor of chemistry at Indiana University, Bloomington, tells Health. “CO2 is present in the atmosphere at a level of about 0.04%. It is dangerous in an atmosphere when it is greater than about 10%.” 

 

I think it’s highly unlikely that you would pass out from a lack of oxygen with a cloth mask, which generally doesn’t fit tightly to your face. When you exhale or inhale, air can go around the mask as well through the pores in the material. This is why a cloth mask does not absolutely protect you from inhaling the virus, but by disturbing your exhalation flow it tends to protect those around you from aerosols in your breath.”

Carroll doubts that any cloth face covering would ever fit against the face so tight that someone would pass out from a lack of oxygen. “You’d take it off because it’s uncomfortable well before that happens,” he says. 

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First line says data is limited, remember earlier in the year when masks didn’t work, now they do, next year, who knows.

 

Non of the studies mention human error, people are not trained how to use masks properly, wear them way too long, adjust and touch them way too frequently and a lot of people think they don’t need to distance themselves since they have masks. People also tend to lean closer to each other to hear.

 

All these cheap masks do is capture your spit on which bacteria starts growing then you start inhaling, yeah that’s healthy.

 

Your only points were masks help control the spread and the oxygen, CO2 which I never brought up. I believe long term mask wearing can be potentially more harmful than any decrease in risk of getting COVID for most people especially when infallible people don’t use them properly. They just provide a false sense of security and you drop your guard.

 

ironically since I don’t trust masks or people I am a lot more careful about distancing and in fact apart from groceries I go out of my way the not have to wear a mask but hey, what do I know I’m a curmudgeon that still remembers when doctors recommended smoking.

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alt kilgore Canucks Franchise Player

alt kilgore

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dumb Nuck said:

First line says data is limited, remember earlier in the year when masks didn’t work, now they do, next year, who knows.

 

Non of the studies mention human error, people are not trained how to use masks properly, wear them way too long, adjust and touch them way too frequently and a lot of people think they don’t need to distance themselves since they have masks. People also tend to lean closer to each other to hear.

 

All these cheap masks do is capture your spit on which bacteria starts growing then you start inhaling, yeah that’s healthy.

 

Your only points were masks help control the spread and the oxygen, CO2 which I never brought up. I believe long term mask wearing can be potentially more harmful than any decrease in risk of getting COVID for most people especially when infallible people don’t use them properly. They just provide a false sense of security and you drop your guard.

 

ironically since I don’t trust masks or people I am a lot more careful about distancing and in fact apart from groceries I go out of my way the not have to wear a mask but hey, what do I know I’m a curmudgeon that still remembers when doctors recommended smoking.

 

Well I tried at least

 

There is "human error" with everything.  If you notice someone not wearing their seat belt properly, does that mean you and everyone else that loves their freedom might as well not wear one either?

It is simple common sense  That even IF some "adjust, and touch them way too frequently",  and even IF that adds a few COVID deaths, that is still far from a major infection rate cause. Mask wearing still overwhelmingly will protect more people, even with the mistakes. People know not to touch their face. But inevitably some still will.  Yes...so? You don't throw out the mask with the bath water.  And if both people wear masks, plus social distance, it makes the threat very low. You add that people have a false sense of security and drop their guard and talk closer. Sure, of course. But all of this nitpicking about human behaviours still does not negate the general overall good that mask wearing does. ie. it does way more good than harm.  Anyways I thought you had agreed already about them working to contain the spread. Now you regurgitate that angle.

 

As far as being a danger to the wearer, I gave you a few links already.  You want info on bacteria?  Obviously you need to wash your cloth mask regularly, and not reuse paper ones. Will some not?  Of course. And I suppose if you are one that thinks they will forget or be lazy about it, then that is on you. You could get a whole bunch of paper ones and throw them out every day too. Here is an article mentioning bacteria, 

 

https://www.hopkinsallchildrens.org/ACH-News/General-News/Myths-about-Masks-and-Other-Coronavirus-Facial-Cov

John Hopkins medicine:

 

MYTH: Wearing a cloth mask will make me sick because mold will build up in it. 

Cloth masks can be used safely more than once if you wash them each day. Proper laundering of cloth masks removes any viruses, bacteria or respiratory secretions that may build up on the mask. You should wash your cloth mask with soap and water after you are done using it for the day. It should be completely dry before you use it again. Clean, dry masks will not develop mold or make you sick.

 

Hey, if you thought it was was danger to yourself, even if I disagreed,  I would say fine don't wear one, its a free country. But wearing a mask is not for you, its for the other person.  Some will not wear it right, or not wash it, or touch their face too much.  But again, you can't control what others do.  As long as most of us, most of the time, try and not make those mistakes too often, then its just common sense that it will help prevent the spread, no?  Just doesn't seem to be something we should be arguing about.

 

 

" I’m a curmudgeon that still remembers when doctors recommended smoking."

 

I'm getting up there too. Reminds me of a great Woody Allen movie, Sleeper.

 

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WeneedLumme Canucks Regular

WeneedLumme

Posted
Posted
On December 13, 2020 at 7:25 PM, Dumb Nuck said:

Just curious, would you go work at a COVID ward in your cloth or disposable medical mask?

If it was my job, and if that was the best PPE available, and the alternative was to use no mask at all, of course I would. As would anyone who is not braindead. Reducing viral exposure by 70%+ as surgical masks do, while not as good as the 95%+ reduction that N95 masks do, is obviously far better than nothing.

 

Just curious, are you aware that viral exposure is not a nice simplistic black and white, exposed/not exposed situation? Did you know that the amount of viral exposure received has a very large impact on how sick one gets and whether or not one gets sick at all?

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Squamfan Canucks First-Line

Squamfan

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On January 31, 2018, Canada officially changed the lyrics of the national anthem to replace “in all thy sons command” to the more gender-neutral “in all of us command.”

 

Still can't believe people were offended by the anthem so we had to change it. Were was the out cry over this people 2018 or was it a issue trudeau made up

 

Apparently he is a beer league goalie which is surprising because he is fat and you need to be quick for that position. But my point is that someone should ask him why you wear a masks when you play goal? for right for your protection.

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JM_ Canucks Hall-of-Famer

JM_

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Squamfan said:

On January 31, 2018, Canada officially changed the lyrics of the national anthem to replace “in all thy sons command” to the more gender-neutral “in all of us command.”

 

Still can't believe people were offended by the anthem so we had to change it. Were was the out cry over this people 2018 or was it a issue trudeau made up

 

Apparently he is a beer league goalie which is surprising because he is fat and you need to be quick for that position. But my point is that someone should ask him why you wear a masks when you play goal? for right for your protection.

thats because it wasn't changed because anyone was offended. Thats your narrative on it, and its not reality. 

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