[Fired] Mark Donnelly

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

I'm just gonna ask you a simple question, at what point are you okay shutting down peoples' livelihoods based on the death rate of a virus or bug? At what point are you okay with the masses losing their jobs, shutting down educations and performing mass lockdowns? 

 

I'd imagine standard influenza isn't enough for you (unless you've been actively praying for lockdowns, masks and social distancing for the past 20 years and we just didn't know about it) so you've been okay with some deaths (yes, even your aunts, uncles and even me!!!). So what is your tipping point to shutting everything down? 

 

Or were you actively irritated with society when H1n1 wasn't locking people down? 

 

Are you friggin kidding?

 

No one in their right minds wants a resession, or for people to loose their life savings.......no one

I I would bet you my last dollar, if you asked each and everyone of them.............your parents life or your life savings..........they would keep their parents

 

There are so many things that can be done to not do that, so I am certainly not saying we should do it tomorrow, but just look at California

They do not want a lock down....but yet there they are in one, in some area's

 

Like I say...........would you trade your families life for your house? I would, in a heart beat!

 

Look at those people in Tornado alley in the states that loose their homes, or on the east coast and the Hurricane...........they are economically devastated, but they are so grateful to have all their family safe..............

 

I don't know man, I am just not like you

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Dumb Nuck said:

At what expense? There are 3 keys to preventing the spread, masks, washing hands and distancing, out of those three only distancing could be 100% effect so should we not be in an absolute lockdown? Anything else is risk vs. Reward and everyone of us has a different interpretation of where the line should be drawn. Is it ok for 100 people to lose their business to save one old person? What about 1000? Seems 45,000 smoking deaths is OK as that’s not banned and they even allow vaping ads.

 

Bars are still open, guarantee that will result in at least one death.

Planes are landing at YVR, guarantee that will result in at least one death.

The rich can still have their cleaning ladies, guarantee that will result in at least one death.

Malls are insane right now, guarantee that will result in at least one death.

Restaurants are open and you don’t need masks eating, guarantee that will result in at least one death.

 

If we just shut all that down we can save at least 5 people.

No one is saying that..........do you best

Wearing a mask is so little.......social distancing is so little.......small bubbles, where you can...Like home/friends/family.......are simple things

 

Hey, I don't like any of it.............but toughen up......they are small things

[Baggins]

11 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

That’s not true just because someone doesn't believe masks work doesn’t mean they’d go expose themselves to COVID, that’s just stupid. They know they can catch it from someone infected, they just feel that even if they had a mask they’d still catch it, so just like was stated, both pro and anti maskers would not work in a COVID center with cloth or surgical mask or without masks at all.

Again, masks are far more effective at protecting others than they are yourself. You wear a mask to protect others from you and they wear a mask to protect you from them. That's where the greatest effect is.

 

I'll put what you're saying in perspective: You're stuck in place and I'm going to fire an arrow at you from 20 feet. You can have a 12" round shield or nothing at all. You'd prefer nothing because you think you'll probably get hit anyway. Me I'll take that 12" shield and increase my odds every time.

[MikeyD]

25 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Are you friggin kidding?

 

No one in their right minds wants a resession, or for people to loose their life savings.......no one

I I would bet you my last dollar, if you asked each and everyone of them.............your parents life or your life savings..........they would keep their parents

 

There are so many things that can be done to not do that, so I am certainly not saying we should do it tomorrow, but just look at California

They do not want a lock down....but yet there they are in one, in some area's

 

Like I say...........would you trade your families life for your house? I would, in a heart beat!

 

Look at those people in Tornado alley in the states that loose their homes, or on the east coast and the Hurricane...........they are economically devastated, but they are so grateful to have all their family safe..............

 

I don't know man, I am just not like you

And no one in their right minds want their loved ones to die. The point is, is that there needs to be a line drawn somewhere, and it shouldn't be at locking everything up for an entire year until people go crazy and ruin the entire economy and the lives of future generations and it also shouldn't be at, "Hey we can save literally every life ever" because that's silly too. We can't keep every living person safe from covid, and we shouldn't be trying to do this at the cost of ruining every living beings lives for decades. 

 

We just reverted to the worst economic depression, surpassing the dirty 30s for unemployment for the sake of saving probably a hundred thousand lives of elderly individuals and thousands of lives of the rest of the age ranges. Now for most of you, this is fantastic news! Look at all of the lives saved! But nobody is willing to look at the millions upon millions of lives ruined. Of people who have saved up their lifetime's worth of savings to now enduring bankruptcy, to millions of people who went from having a lifelong career to having no job at all, from having a third generation family business to looking to where their next meal will come from. 

 

But at least you can sleep easy at night knowing your grandmother is still alive. 

[MikeyD]

2 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Again, masks are far more effective at protecting others than they are yourself. You wear a mask to protect others from you and they wear a mask to protect you from them. That's where the greatest effect is.

 

I'll put what you're saying in perspective: You're stuck in place and I'm going to fire an arrow at you from 20 feet. You can have a 12" round shield or nothing at all. You'd prefer nothing because you think you'll probably get hit anyway. Me I'll take that 12" shield and increase my odds every time.

As would I, they're somewhat effective depending on material and fit. I just wouldn't fire somebody over holding different beliefs on the efficacy of masks. 

[Dumb Nuck]

54 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Again, masks are far more effective at protecting others than they are yourself. You wear a mask to protect others from you and they wear a mask to protect you from them. That's where the greatest effect is.

 

I'll put what you're saying in perspective: You're stuck in place and I'm going to fire an arrow at you from 20 feet. You can have a 12" round shield or nothing at all. You'd prefer nothing because you think you'll probably get hit anyway. Me I'll take that 12" shield and increase my odds every time.

If I was the one shooting I’d wait till your arms got tired of holding it then shoot, also would be easy enough just to get out of your range. Also you’d probably hold that shield protecting your core, there is a chance the arrow could be going for a fleshy area, deflect and hit you in the head thus killing you. You also might feel a bit more invincible and come closer making my shot a lot easier. 
 

what if COVID turns out to be flu like in the sense it mutates on a yearly basis so there is no immunity or effective vaccine, do we keep living like this forever?

Edited December 8, 2020 by Dumb Nuck

[Jaimito]

1 hour ago, Dumb Nuck said:

If I was the one shooting I’d wait till your arms got tired of holding it then shoot, also would be easy enough just to get out of your range. Also you’d probably hold that shield protecting your core, there is a chance the arrow could be going for a fleshy area, deflect and hit you in the head thus killing you. You also might feel a bit more invincible and come closer making my shot a lot easier. 
 

what if COVID turns out to be flu like in the sense it mutates on a yearly basis so there is no immunity or effective vaccine, do we keep living like this forever?

We do know it isn't like flu in mutation rates.  It's a single stranded RNA virus, vs 8 in influenza. SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, also codes its own enzyme that proofreads replication so that is corrects the mistakes. In long term, it will mutate like any fast replicating organism. We have 12 months of data on this viral genome so far, and while it has changes it isn't at a rate you see in HIV or influenza. 

 

It remains to be seen if the vaccine will last longer than a yr, since we don't have that data yet. But if it starts to wane, it's more likely that the host immunity had waned, rather than the virus mutated so much and escaped the immune response.   If the immunity does wane, a booster shot may be needed, like you do for tetanus.

 

All this argument about how many people die from other causes so as to dismiss the public health mitigation efforts is missing the point.  The point isn't to prevent deaths.  We all die of something eventually.  The point is to prevent premature or avoidable deaths, and to not overwhelm the medical system. Cancer kills, but it is slow and ER and health care systems don't get overwhelmed and collapse due to cancer patients. The exception may be after a nuclear disaster, but even that is acute radiation sickness, not cancer in the traditional sense.  Car accidents and suicides are not infectious, in that you can transmitted it to others. All the preventable deaths are important to address, but they don't need the same mitigation methods to contain as COVID-19. We do public safety education like avoid speeding,  adverse weather warning, seat belts, traffic law enforcement, mental health and drug counseling, gun safety, anti smoking campaigns for lung cancer etc. You need different solutions for different diseases. 

 

We don't lock down for seasonal flu, because there is enough baseline immunity in the population, drugs and vaccines that work so that it doesn't overwhelm the hospitals every winter.  Every fall we have to get the flu vaccine at work in the hospital. When we had over 2000 covid-19 patients in our hospital in the spring and killed over 20 of our staff, you know it ain't the seasonal flu. A pandemic flu can be more lethal, like the Spanish flu, which did lead to lockdowns and anti mask protests. The H1N1 Swine flu in 2009 was relatively mild and it is a descendent of the Spanish flu in a sense, both H1N1. The next one might be worse than covid-19.  A pandemic is a relatively rare event, once or twice a century. This is one of them. Unfortunately, they are becoming more frequent due to human activities. I will not be surprised if there will be another one or two in my lifetime.  

Edited December 8, 2020 by Jaimito

[MikeyD]

4 hours ago, Jaimito said:

We do know it isn't like flu in mutation rates.  It's a single stranded RNA virus, vs 8 in influenza. SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, also codes its own enzyme that proofreads replication so that is corrects the mistakes. In long term, it will mutate like any fast replicating organism. We have 12 months of data on this viral genome so far, and while it has changes it isn't at a rate you see in HIV or influenza. 

 

It remains to be seen if the vaccine will last longer than a yr, since we don't have that data yet. But if it starts to wane, it's more likely that the host immunity had waned, rather than the virus mutated so much and escaped the immune response.   If the immunity does wane, a booster shot may be needed, like you do for tetanus.

 

All this argument about how many people die from other causes so as to dismiss the public health mitigation efforts is missing the point.  The point isn't to prevent deaths.  We all die of something eventually.  The point is to prevent premature or avoidable deaths, and to not overwhelm the medical system. Cancer kills, but it is slow and ER and health care systems don't get overwhelmed and collapse due to cancer patients. The exception may be after a nuclear disaster, but even that is acute radiation sickness, not cancer in the traditional sense.  Car accidents and suicides are not infectious, in that you can transmitted it to others. All the preventable deaths are important to address, but they don't need the same mitigation methods to contain as COVID-19. We do public safety education like avoid speeding,  adverse weather warning, seat belts, traffic law enforcement, mental health and drug counseling, gun safety, anti smoking campaigns for lung cancer etc. You need different solutions for different diseases. 

 

We don't lock down for seasonal flu, because there is enough baseline immunity in the population, drugs and vaccines that work so that it doesn't overwhelm the hospitals every winter.  Every fall we have to get the flu vaccine at work in the hospital. When we had over 2000 covid-19 patients in our hospital in the spring and killed over 20 of our staff, you know it ain't the seasonal flu. A pandemic flu can be more lethal, like the Spanish flu, which did lead to lockdowns and anti mask protests. The H1N1 Swine flu in 2009 was relatively mild and it is a descendent of the Spanish flu in a sense, both H1N1. The next one might be worse than covid-19.  A pandemic is a relatively rare event, once or twice a century. This is one of them. Unfortunately, they are becoming more frequent due to human activities. I will not be surprised if there will be another one or two in my lifetime.  

This is the best response. 

[MattJVD]

13 hours ago, MikeyD said:

While this is true, it's also an airborne disease, so yeah, it does just linger in the air. Majority of it is attached to droplet particles though, so you are right there.

Airborne refers to the >5um aerosol particles. They do tend to linger in the air, but not as individual virus cells.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/health-professionals/main-modes-transmission.html

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 hours ago, MikeyD said:

And no one in their right minds want their loved ones to die. The point is, is that there needs to be a line drawn somewhere, and it shouldn't be at locking everything up for an entire year until people go crazy and ruin the entire economy and the lives of future generations and it also shouldn't be at, "Hey we can save literally every life ever" because that's silly too. We can't keep every living person safe from covid, and we shouldn't be trying to do this at the cost of ruining every living beings lives for decades. 

 

We just reverted to the worst economic depression, surpassing the dirty 30s for unemployment for the sake of saving probably a hundred thousand lives of elderly individuals and thousands of lives of the rest of the age ranges. Now for most of you, this is fantastic news! Look at all of the lives saved! But nobody is willing to look at the millions upon millions of lives ruined. Of people who have saved up their lifetime's worth of savings to now enduring bankruptcy, to millions of people who went from having a lifelong career to having no job at all, from having a third generation family business to looking to where their next meal will come from. 

 

But at least you can sleep easy at night knowing your grandmother is still alive. 

Don't take this to the extreme,,,we are not there by a long shot

I no longer want to discuss this with you

You are selfish and need a lessen in humanity

I am out!

[Ballisticsports.]

9 hours ago, MikeyD said:

And no one in their right minds want their loved ones to die. The point is, is that there needs to be a line drawn somewhere, and it shouldn't be at locking everything up for an entire year until people go crazy and ruin the entire economy and the lives of future generations and it also shouldn't be at, "Hey we can save literally every life ever" because that's silly too. We can't keep every living person safe from covid, and we shouldn't be trying to do this at the cost of ruining every living beings lives for decades. 

 

We just reverted to the worst economic depression, surpassing the dirty 30s for unemployment for the sake of saving probably a hundred thousand lives of elderly individuals and thousands of lives of the rest of the age ranges. Now for most of you, this is fantastic news! Look at all of the lives saved! But nobody is willing to look at the millions upon millions of lives ruined. Of people who have saved up their lifetime's worth of savings to now enduring bankruptcy, to millions of people who went from having a lifelong career to having no job at all, from having a third generation family business to looking to where their next meal will come from. 

 

But at least you can sleep easy at night knowing your grandmother is still alive. 

 

Really MikeyD?- Maybe when you are Mike or Michael you will appreciate sacrifices that were made for you in the past before you were born (even parenting)

I hope you can sleep easy at night knowing your grandmother is still alive !

The Government is peoples money and they have tried to help out financially, In another century, settling this land, their was no help, you only made it by the work you did, and were lucky if a neighbor was able to help you out if you fell it or? Be thankful for getting anything !, your ancestors never got that help !

You bring up the dirty 30's and make the comparison?

Your ancestors gave their lives so you could whine like this ???

Imagine if Hitler was successful ? (You would not have had the life  and freedom up until now that you do)

You think soldiers being isolate d, cold and hungry, Asian flu, germ warfare, the threat of being killed and killing someone and away from loved ones in a foreign country were enjoying themselves in those times? (Can you imagine how they must have felt, never at peace from a attack or landmine or even having to kill someone in any war)?

They went off to fight a evil dictator, so you and Your Families and Country were safe! (and you whine about doing your small sacrifice compared to them)

 

This time, we are at war with a virus now, no matter how bad you think this is, it is nothing to what those people went through,

They would be saddened and disheartened to find out they did that, especially if everyone thought the way you do

You act as if we all enjoy this,  we all want it to be the way it was and are willing to do our small part to help fight this war on humanity

 

Society is what built this life you have got to enjoy, now that you have no interest in contributing to it

Medical people are putting their lives at risk. like soldiers to help, maybe one day they will save your life, after you put them at risk earlier?

Society will provide you with a cure from this, like they did with small pox and you will go to public funded hospitals and doctors, dentists etc in the future

Is whining on here be your only contribution to society?

 

When i feel down, I just look at how much better off  i am over other people less fortunate and feel guilty for thinking that ,and remember to be thankful.

No matter how bad your life may feel, someone has it way worse and would love your life

 

Suck it up, and look at the big picture, If you had any empathy, you would be embarrassed, I won't respond back to you, because i think you have none or very little, and are incapable of changing your view and your contribution to humanity

[Baggins]

8 hours ago, MikeyD said:

As would I, they're somewhat effective depending on material and fit. I just wouldn't fire somebody over holding different beliefs on the efficacy of masks. 

One of the issues is anti maskers keep saying they are unlikely to save you or I'm willing to take the risk as I'm likely survive. It's all about themselves and they view mask as being purely about themselves. The simple truth is masks are most effective at protecting others from the wearer rather than protecting the wearer from others. The anti masker isn't just putting self at risk, they are putting everybody they come in contact with at risk even those wearing masks. Unlike a seatbelt, wearing a mask is more about others than self.

 

If it was only about self, like wearing a hard hat in construction or a seatbelt driving, I'd say go ahead as your only putting yourself at risk. But wearing a mask is not just about self, it's about protecting others and in turn their loved ones. Actually more so, as that's where masks are most effective - protecting others. What anti masker says to me is not only do you not give a rats tush about strangers and their families, but it also says you have absolutely nobody in your life, family, friends, or coworkers, you care about at all. That's about as self centered and selfish as you can get.

 

Donnelly said he knew his actions could put his job at risk as he has a high profile association with the Canucks. He made his choice. The owner then made his choice. There's your freedom of choice and it's a two way street.

[RomanP]

13 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Yeah, really tough on the government, https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/austin-mayor-apologizes-after-he-told-residents-to-stay-at-home-while-vacationing-in-mexico-1.5217077

 

Why wasn’t  this guy fired?

 

 

For one simple reason - mayor is an elected official and can't be "fired". He can resign or lose the next election (which I hope happens to this idiot).

[kesler_sedins]

 

He was interviewed by a reporter named Drea Humphrey who is also an anti-masker...disappointed by his interview and the other anti-maskers...

[The Lock]

12 minutes ago, kesler_sedins said:

 

He was interviewed by a reporter named Drea Humphrey who is also an anti-masker...disappointed by his interview and the other anti-maskers...

lol So they're "pro-science" yet don't believe in the actual science that tells them to wear a mask.

[thundernuts]

I hope Louis Erikisson goes to an anti mask rally.

 

Edit: I do NOT want Eriksson to catch Covid!  Just a tongue in cheek joke for how his contract could be terminated.

Edited December 8, 2020 by thundernuts

[spur1]

24 minutes ago, kesler_sedins said:

 

He was interviewed by a reporter named Drea Humphrey who is also an anti-masker...disappointed by his interview and the other anti-maskers...

Lol he is even wearing the Trump signature red tie. I find it mind boggling how many Canadians that have been sucked into the Trump vortex. 

[alt kilgore]

55 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Lol he is even wearing the Trump signature red tie. I find it mind boggling how many Canadians that have been sucked into the Trump vortex. 

I do too.  It seems antithesis of what Canadians stand for.  But I guess I presume too much. 

 

What is puzzling also is how they feel compelled to lump all their beliefs under one umbrella.  ie. if you believe one right wing belief, even something sensible like lower taxes as an example, it seems you also believe, or are steered to believe, in all other con beliefs,  outlawing abortions (as Donnelly does) and today they also accept the whacky QAnon conspiracy theories too.  And also worship Trump, a vulgar, racist, sexist, narcissistic, grifter, incompetent man.baby that can't stop whining and feeling sorry for himself. What leadership material! One of the wacky CT is that masks are only a communist plot to take away our freedoms, and has nothing to do with some hyped up flu that liberals are inventing to shut down the economy. Because liberals hate good economies I guess?  Can't be for any other reason like helping to fight COVID (and get into a good economy sooner).  Because this group of anti-mask selfish a-holes think everyone must also be a selfish a-hole like them.  Its part of their negative suspicious view of their fellow Canadians.  But I'm shocked at the fact we get such a crowd to a covidiot rally like this.

 

I never would have guessed Donnelly would be a red hat. That is one silver lining of the Trump era, all the covidiots and Trumptards are exposing themselves for what they are.  Looks can be deceiving.  My innocent "little" sister, an evangelical Christian, listens to American far right blowhard talk radio and thinks poor Trumpy is being unfairly attacked.  Sad to see her like that, seems also the antithesis of her personality growing up. But now I know she always had that in her.  Its scary because I understand better now how easy it is for Fascism to take hold and be supported by who you thought were "good" people. How fragile Democracy is, and how hard we have to remain vigil for it.

.

.

Edited December 9, 2020 by kilgore

[Dumb Nuck]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

I do too.  It seems antithesis of what Canadians stand for.  But I guess I presume too much. 

 

What is puzzling also is how they feel compelled to lump all their beliefs under one umbrella.  ie. if you believe one right wing belief, even something sensible like lower taxes as an example, it seems you also believe, or are steered to believe, in all other con beliefs,  outlawing abortions (as Donnelly does) and today they also accept the whacky QAnon conspiracy theories too.  And also worship Trump, a vulgar, racist, sexist, narcissistic, grifter, incompetent man.baby that can't stop whining and feeling sorry for himself. What leadership material! One of the wacky CT is that masks are only a communist plot to take away our freedoms, and has nothing to do with some hyped up flu that liberals are inventing to shut down the economy. Because liberals hate good economies I guess?  Can't be for any other reason like helping to fight COVID (and get into a good economy sooner).  Because this group of anti-mask selfish a-holes think everyone must also be a selfish a-hole like them.  Its part of their negative suspicious view of their fellow Canadians.  But I'm shocked at the fact we get such a crowd to a covidiot rally like this.

 

I never would have guessed Donnelly would be a red hat. That is one silver lining of the Trump era, all the covidiots and Trumptards are exposing themselves for what they are.  Looks can be deceiving.  My innocent "little" sister, an evangelical Christian, listens to American far right blowhard talk radio and thinks poor Trumpy is being unfairly attacked.  Sad to see her like that, seems also the antithesis of her personality growing up. But now I know she always had that in her.  Its scary because I understand better now how easy it is for Fascism to take hold and be supported by who you thought were "good" people. How fragile Democracy is, and how hard we have to remain vigil for it.

.

.

Wow, judge much? 

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Wow, judge much? 

If it looks walks and quacks like duck...