[Official] 2021 Training Camp Thread

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, FaninMex said:

If Hogs makes the team, Gaud is going to be the man out. It Hogs does not the Gaud will be on a wing. Gaud will not be Centering the 3rd until there is an injury.

Beagle is our 4th line Center. You are crazy if you sit him. Sutter and Beagle play a role that Gaud can not.

The video I have seen shows that Baer is not going to be with this team but he is at a disadvantage as he did not participate in bubble hockey and it could be a lot of rust. I also have only seen video that has been posted here. I would expect to hear more if he was going to make it as he is an O player and this fanbase seems to think foundational meant high scoring.

have you been paying attention at camp? gaud has been playing as a centre on the third line, its beagle and sutter who are fighting for 4th line pivot, though its still very possible and likely they all make the team. gaudette is our second best scoring center and will be needed on the powerplay. the more pivots in your lineup the better and was actually why we were so succesful last year. gaudette plays more minutes when we are losing and sutter plays more minutes when we are winning. im pretty sure macewen is the one looking in from the outside.

[FaninMex]

7 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

have you been paying attention at camp? gaud has been playing as a centre on the third line, its beagle and sutter who are fighting for 4th line pivot, though its still very possible and likely they all make the team. gaudette is our second best scoring center and will be needed on the powerplay. the more pivots in your lineup the better and was actually why we were so succesful last year. gaudette plays more minutes when we are losing and sutter plays more minutes when we are winning. im pretty sure macewen is the one looking in from the outside.

I have been but it is a camp to test players. Green knows what he has in certain players and he does not have to put them through their paces as much as the players on the fringe. He needs to know where people fit and what they bring. Do not get stuck like the Vancouver media and read so much into what you are seeing in training camp or you are going to get upset when the cuts start coming.

 

 

[Pure961089]

1 hour ago, Millsy said:

No hard feelings at all. I just think you’re not being objective and this comment proves it. It’s not about like to me, I like both players equally and think they will both be studs for us when ready. Just that OJ is ready and Rathbone is close but not. 

The role the Canucks have open is Third Left D, or number 6 

 

That role is not offensive in nature. It’s depth and can play a key role on the PK when one of the top 4 D is gassed / in the box or not suited for PK (Hughes) 

 

Therefore, the team needs a dman who’s ready defensively as this player’s role is not offensive. 

 

This is often the reason why dmen who are offensive but not top 2 / elite start in the minors. It’s pretty simple as in the minors they can continue to refine their natural offensive game, but also gain experience against men on the defensive side. This latter part is important as the nhl is not a development league. Players need to come in, play their role and gain the trust of their coaches and teammates to play the right way. Not have a teammate cover for their errors (ie put a defensive dman with him). If he was Quinn Hughes and so elite that his offense can make up for his defensive errors it can make sense. If you’re a number 6 and your role isn’t to score but take some minutes away from the top 4 and PK well it’s not the place to learn to play D.

 

Again, the coaches have said he needs to work on his defense. You can choose to believe you know more, you don’t. 

 

Moreover, playing against Jimmy Vesey type players in College is not the same as going one on one against Patrick Kane, Ovie, Matthews, McKinnon, Crosby etc. 

 

The reality is, OJ is ready and the need is for a 6D. OJ can play this role reliably and with no pressure for offense, which he can gradually add to his game as he proves he deserves more minutes. As he moves up the depth Chart, in will come Rathbone as the next 6D / 3LD

 

At that point he will have the same learning curve as OJ. Since the role is primarily defensive he will be ready has he honed this part of his game in the AHL.

 

Once he proves he deserves more ice then the battle between he and OJ starts as to who will get pp2 behind Hughes, who will get the 2nd pairing LD etc

 

That’s how you:

A) create a winning team and ensure you keep winning 

b) properly develop players. You don’t just throw them in and say hey go get points, and hopefully your partner will cover your errors. Because guess what? Ovie ain’t giving you the puck when you can’t play D dude. You’ll be chasing all night and never score anyways.  

C) then the result is you lose, your teammates and coaches lose faith in you, you lose faith in yourself and you bust.

 

Hockey development is a bit more involved than liking players  

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, Millsy said:

The Canucks goal is to win, they don’t care if a player was drafted #6 or number 215, the best player will play. You seem to think it’s about optics and politics, that doesn’t win cups lol, and it doesn’t help coaches stay employed. 

 

Your hubris is evidenced by your view that your opinion based on who’s ahead on a depth chart in a hockey preview means more than the coach himself! This is the most absurd thing I’ve heard yet! you’re actually suggesting the head coach of a team’s view of who is higher on the depth chart holds less value than sports journalists or bloggers? I don’t know if you’re now trolling or actually believe such nonsense. 
 

as for ruffled, I think you’re misinterpreting the text size. I cut and pasted from a document as I prefer to type there first vs a phone, and it transferred like that. 
 

If where a player was drafted means so much, why isn’t Jake on the second line vs Hogs? They have so much invested in him don’t they? He was a first rounder and Hogs is a second rounder! He was JB’s first ever pick and has underperformed the lofty expectations and to this day many People scream about Nylander or Ehlers! So much negative attention on Jake for years should mean if JB and Green cared about optics and Poltics Jake would be on the first line, he would never have been sent down to Utica, always got PP1 time! How come it’s not optics and politics for Jake? This is just applying your logic to another player. 

 

Or how about Baer? We gave up a 2nd round draft pick years ago, and pay him 3.5 mil! How come JB isn’t trying to show he didn’t make a mistake and force green to play him??

 

see how your logic doesn’t hang together? Maybe the Canucks know how to evaluate talent and want to put the best players they have on the ice to ensure they’re in the best position they can be in to win? Nah can’t be that. 

 

I guess you know more, or maybe the hockey experts and their depth charts do know more than the coaches! Smh now I’ve really heard it all! 

 

The reason Jake isn’t on the second line is because of chemistry. Green is looking for chemistry and Jake and Bo have shown very little over the last couple years.  You problem is you can’t seem to get past 1 comment I made about politics in hockey, you’re hung up on it and can’t seem to get past it.   You seem to think Green is infallible, he’s not.  There are other hockey experts that have Rathbone ranked higher but I doubt very much you read the entirety of my comments like I humour your comments.  At least I read all of them.  You have your opinions but you seem to take my opinions as a personal insult to yours. It’s not personal but you want to make it such. “Journalists Bloggers”. Lol. People that have been in hockey for a long time.  You can have more than one opinion.  Green is some sacred golden cow to you.  There are people that are very knowledgeable about hockey who’s named isn’t Green.  You go off some Bearchi comment that has nothing to do with anything we’ve been talking about.  What about Jake?  He has a unique skill set of both size and speed. It’s very rare so it’s not a political thing.  You want to make everything about politics now.  You think Tryamkin will be a great addition to the Canucks lol. That’s all I need to know.  I give you an olive branch and all you want to do is fight.  You make little sense, you’re all over the place.  You can’t seem to stay focused on the debate.  You behave like a child, this isn’t Twitter.  Edit: You have to remember there are real people behind these screens, show a little respect. At least as much as I showed you up until you insulted me.  

Edited January 7, 2021 by Pure961089

[Bad_BOI_pete]

42 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

I have been but it is a camp to test players. Green knows what he has in certain players and he does not have to put them through their paces as much as the players on the fringe. He needs to know where people fit and what they bring. Do not get stuck like the Vancouver media and read so much into what you are seeing in training camp or you are going to get upset when the cuts start coming.

 

 

the pivot position is just so much more valuable than a winger, the more pivots in your lineup allows for more line juggling when youre ahead/behind. sutter can be promoted to second line for extra shifts when we need to come up with important stops.  when were behind we lose the option of giving the third line more minutes so we can cheese a goal. the energy that big macc brings is not as valuable as giving your team more options.and most importantly who replaces gaudette on the powerplay then? sutter? breakup the first powerplay? 

 

can you see why gaudette too also plays a important role?

Edited January 7, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Millsy]

11 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

 

The reason Jake isn’t on the second line is because of chemistry. Green is looking for chemistry and Jake and Bo have shown very little over the last couple years.  You problem is you can’t seem to get past 1 comment I made about politics in hockey, you’re hung up on it and can’t seem to get past it.   You seem to think Green is infallible, he’s not.  There are other hockey experts that have Rathbone ranked higher but I doubt very much you read the entirety of my comments like I humour your comments.  At least I read all of them.  You have your opinions but you seem to take my opinions as a personal insult to yours. It’s not personal but you want to make it such. “Journalists Bloggers”. Lol. People that have been in hockey for a long time.  You can have more than one opinion.  Green is some sacred golden cow to you.  There are people that are very knowledgeable about hockey who’s named isn’t Green.  You go off some Bearchi comment that has nothing to do with anything we’ve been talking about.  What about Jake?  He has a unique skill set of both size and speed. It’s very rare so it’s not a political thing.  You want to make everything about politics now.  You think Tryamkin will be a great addition to the Canucks lol. That’s all I need to know.  I give you an olive branch and all you want to do is fight.  You make little sense, you’re all over the place.  You can’t seem to stay focused on the debate.  You behave like a child, this isn’t Twitter.  Edit: You have to remember there are real people behind these screens, show a little respect. At least as much as I showed you up until you insulted me.  

1. Green is the coach he’s paid to win, journalists aren’t 

 

2. It’s actually his depth chart so a journalist doesn’t really matter 

 

3. I don’t want to make things about politics you do! It’s your argument. Sucks when someone shows you it makes no sense huh?

 

anyways enough of this. Enjoy the season 

[TNucks1]

6 hours ago, Squamfan said:

thank you to judd bracket for nils hoglander

thank the swedish scouts and Co, for drafting hoglander, honestly are you just a troll and dont pay attention too the team?, im pretty curious at this point, i thought you were like DumbNuck, who does his thing and purposely and accidently say things and assume that there the brains behind the entire operation lol, its honestly getting old if its your schtick... greener and "DimJim?" arent responsible for making it past the play in round and then the stanley CUP champs and then vs the KNIGHTS at game 7 lol... what does a person have too do 2 satisfy you?... dont even bother, your not even a quarter cup of water for optimism, schmidt, hamonic, holtby and all our young guns pushing the roster...seriously, if your saying your a realist, i aint seeing it, explain.

[FaninMex]

13 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

the pivot position is just so much more valuable than a winger, the more pivots in your lineup allows for more line juggling when youre ahead/behind. sutter can be promoted to second line for extra shifts when we need to come up with important stops.  when were behind we lose the option of giving the third line more minutes so we can cheese a goal. the energy that big macc brings is not as valuable as giving your team more options.and most importantly who replaces gaudette on the powerplay then? sutter? breakup the first powerplay? 

 

can you see why gaudette too also plays a important role?

I agree with you that Pivot is extremely valuable.

In what capacity can Sutter be promoted to the second line? Winger?

 

Boes - JT - Petey

Pear - Bo - Hog/Gaud

Mac - Sutter - Virt

Motte - Beags - Rous

 

That is how I see the potential lines. Gaud is not a game-changer that will win a game simply by playing a few more minutes. Did you see the bubble hockey? Gaud sat out quite a bit in favor of Sutter being the third line center. Your idea is based on your desire to have 3 o minded lines and 1 D shutdown line. If that is the case, you are about to be disappointed. Green has never built the team that way. Benning has not built the team that way.

For example, when Benning called Sutter foundational, what was he referring to? It was his D and his ability to slow the game down enough that the momentum swings or remains in our favor.

Green even recently said that Sutter is not a winger. He plays better in the position that he has been playing his whole career. Center. Green has played Sutter on Beagle's wing before but there was little chemistry as I said before about their play styles.

There are many centers that can play the wing and Gaud has had some success on Boes wing before.

Playing Gaud as 3rd line center means that we need to shelter him because he is terrible at FO. We have 56 games, we do not have time to waste sheltering players.

 

 

 

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, FaninMex said:

I agree with you that Pivot is extremely valuable.

In what capacity can Sutter be promoted to the second line? Winger?

 

Boes - JT - Petey

Pear - Bo - Hog/Gaud

Mac - Sutter - Virt

Motte - Beags - Rous

 

That is how I see the potential lines. Gaud is not a game-changer that will win a game simply by playing a few more minutes. Did you see the bubble hockey? Gaud sat out quite a bit in favor of Sutter being the third line center. Your idea is based on your desire to have 3 o minded lines and 1 D shutdown line. If that is the case, you are about to be disappointed. Green has never built the team that way. Benning has not built the team that way.

For example, when Benning called Sutter foundational, what was he referring to? It was his D and his ability to slow the game down enough that the momentum swings or remains in our favor.

Green even recently said that Sutter is not a winger. He plays better in the position that he has been playing his whole career. Center. Green has played Sutter on Beagle's wing before but there was little chemistry as I said before about their play styles.

There are many centers that can play the wing and Gaud has had some success on Boes wing before.

Playing Gaud as 3rd line center means that we need to shelter him because he is terrible at FO. We have 56 games, we do not have time to waste sheltering players.

 

 

 

 

all that talk and you still can't answer my question.

anyways besides missing the entire point of my debate, ill focus on the ill logic of thinking macewen is higher on the depth chart than good old gauds.

you pointed out Sutter was favored over gaudette, he sure was. you win. guess who played less minutes and less games than gaudette all season and playoffs, macewen did. I win. the intagibles of gaudette on the roster over the intagibles that macewen brings... is like gaudette>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>macewen its not even close.

 

is gaudette a game changer. Yes for both good and bad, that guy puts more goals in the net than most second line players do. do we have to shelter his minutes to get those goals? Yes, but who cares really. the second and 4th line can be our shutdown lines. it worked last year and will work again this year.

 

what is all this made up talk about me creating 3O lines and one D line. I haven't even talked about more than 3 players in our entire conversation. 

 

JT - PETEY - Boeser

Pear - Bo - Hog

Roussel - Gaudette - Virt

Motte - Sutter - Beagle(beags can take the draws)

 

and OUILA just like that you can shift your lines around to give yourself more options to score and defend. give extra shifts to sutter when your ahead and less shifts to sutter when were behind. you can even bench player's like beags and give extra shifts to boeser/hogs/virt or bench gaudette/roussel and give extra shifts to JT,PEAR,MOTTE/PETEY,BO,SUTTER. so many cool options!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And on top of that the best part Gaudette can play powerplay!!!!!!

 

Oh, gaudette has improved on his faceoffs, i think he was winning 47% in the playoffs. winning 47 out of 100 vs 53 out of 100 is not that big a deal.

 

anyways im not a time machine, these lines could be out to lunch. But as of now IM 99.9% certain that gaudette will be in the lineup before Big Mack.

 

Oh and I wouldn't read too much into what green said with regards to sutter playing wing. it wasn't like a epihany he had, im pretty sure he knew that last year.

 

Anways have a great preseason.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Boudrias]

20 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

This team has the most solid D it has had since their 2010 era and perhaps best in entire Division (certainly top 5 in league now....at least on paper).   The upgrade with TH and Schmidty, they could to a top pairing duo by themselves for about 1/2 the teams in the league, when you still have Edler, Hughes, Meyers and actual competition for the other two or three rotational spots is a luxury this team hasn't had in about 10 years.    I personally hate projections in such odd times but everything I can come up with has the improvement on the back-end more than making up for any losses in net (if there is actually any).   My largest concern going into the season for your Canucks is the lack of one more true top six winger.    Fingers crossed Virtanen steps up or NH is as potentially could be but one more top winger would be needed, in my mind, for this team to be a lock to play past the regular season.   Right now I think it could go either way and a lot will depend on the first 10 games (momentum never more important than this year).

Glad to see your always interesting comments Rob. Yes, the d-core looks better and a top 6 winger is needed. I am leery of another TT deal. Unfortunate as Covid killed the CAP growth that would have paid him. That said I prefer to see how the existing roster and prospects grow with the opportunity. How does the improved strength of the d-core benefit puck possession, transition speed and ozone time. 

 

Where you been?  

[Pure961089]

2 hours ago, Millsy said:

1. Green is the coach he’s paid to win, journalists aren’t 

 

2. It’s actually his depth chart so a journalist doesn’t really matter 

 

3. I don’t want to make things about politics you do! It’s your argument. Sucks when someone shows you it makes no sense huh?

 

anyways enough of this. Enjoy the season 

[Pure961089]

3 hours ago, Millsy said:

1. Green is the coach he’s paid to win, journalists aren’t 

 

2. It’s actually his depth chart so a journalist doesn’t really matter 

 

3. I don’t want to make things about politics you do! It’s your argument. Sucks when someone shows you it makes no sense huh?

 

anyways enough of this. Enjoy the season 

I’m not talking about Journalists or Bloggers, I’m talking about hockey Experts.  You know, people that have been in the business, players, other coaches, scouts  I’m not talking about people like you or me.  
 

I made a UNIVERSAL FACT about politics in hockey and you Just Can’t Let It Go. 
 

Do you think Podkolzin would be the 13th forward on his SKA team if he signed with them for 6 years?  You think maybe he’d be treated differently?  It’s called    P   O   L   I   T   I   C S.

 

Anyway my time is precious and I’ve spent way too much time on you.  

Edited January 7, 2021 by Pure961089

[EP Phone Home]

I didn't think the Hog hype would land a spot on Bo's wing this season but gosh dang it I sure love surprises. He's jumped ahead of Lind on the depth chart and Lind has a few more years on Hogs. Keep that Calder streak going because it looks like we just may have another one.

[FaninMex]

31 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

all that talk and you still can't answer my question.

anyways besides missing the entire point of my debate, ill focus on the ill logic of thinking macewen is higher on the depth chart than good old gauds.

you pointed out Sutter was favored over gaudette, he sure was. you win. guess who played less minutes and less games than gaudette all season and playoffs, macewen did. I win. the intagibles of gaudette on the roster over the intagibles that macewen brings... is like gaudette>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>macewen its not even close.

 

is gaudette a game changer. Yes for both good and bad, that guy puts more goals in the net than most second line players do. do we have to shelter his minutes to get those goals? Yes, but who cares really. the second and 4th line can be our shutdown lines. it worked last year and will work again this year.

 

what is all this made up talk about me creating 3O lines and one D line. I haven't even talked about more than 3 players in our entire conversation. 

 

JT - PETEY - Boeser

Pear - Bo - Hog

Roussel - Gaudette - Virt

Motte - Sutter - Beagle(beags can take the draws)

 

and OUILA just like that you can shift your lines around to give yourself more options to score and defend. give extra shifts to sutter when your ahead and less shifts to sutter when were behind. you can even bench player's like beags and give extra shifts to boeser/hogs/virt or bench gaudette/roussel and give extra shifts to JT,PEAR,MOTTE/PETEY,BO,SUTTER. so many cool options!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And on top of that the best part Gaudette can play powerplay!!!!!!

 

Oh, gaudette has improved on his faceoffs, i think he was winning 47% in the playoffs. winning 47 out of 100 vs 53 out of 100 is not that big a deal.

 

anyways im not a time machine, these lines could be out to lunch. But as of now IM 99.9% certain that gaudette will be in the lineup before Big Mack.

 

Oh and I wouldn't read too much into what green said with regards to sutter playing wing. it wasn't like a epihany he had, im pretty sure he knew that last year.

 

Anways have a great preseason.

 

 

 

Your question?? Guess I missed it. I have not lived in an English speaking country for 12 years. It happens.

 

You are getting really triggered for a simple conversation about one player and their overall value to the team at this stage in their career. Feel free to quote me and say I told you so if what you say happens.

 

Another point, I see Mac and Gaud covering different roles. Gaud as a top 6 winger for Bo to harness the O that we both agree that he has and Mac as a bottom 6 crasher. 47% FO means he needs to be sheltered.

 

Was your question about the PP and who replaces Gaud there? I have not thought about it all that much but I can take a crack at it.

 

Let me see. The lines I posted were.

 

Boes - JT - Petey

Pear - Bo - Hog/Gaud

Mac - Sutter - Virt

Motte - Beags - Rous

 

Edler - Sch

Hughes - Ham

Juo - Myers

 

So, 

PP1

Petey - JT - Mac - Edler -  Hughes - Mac is a big body in front of the net looking for garbage to scoop in

 

PP2

Boes - Bo -  Virt - Sch - Myers - Bo in front of the net. Virt is in Ovie's traditional spot.

 

Again I have not thought it out but there are still plenty of options. Gaud does not make or break anything. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

I'm happy to see Hoglander making a buzz, and that Green isn't sticking quite so tightly to having a left shot not being on RW. But It makes me wonder why Jake isn't being given a LW opportunity, he's always looked better off wing. 

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

 

The reason Jake isn’t on the second line is because of chemistry. Green is looking for chemistry and Jake and Bo have shown very little over the last couple years.  You problem is you can’t seem to get past 1 comment I made about politics in hockey, you’re hung up on it and can’t seem to get past it.   You seem to think Green is infallible, he’s not.  There are other hockey experts that have Rathbone ranked higher but I doubt very much you read the entirety of my comments like I humour your comments.  At least I read all of them.  You have your opinions but you seem to take my opinions as a personal insult to yours. It’s not personal but you want to make it such. “Journalists Bloggers”. Lol. People that have been in hockey for a long time.  You can have more than one opinion.  Green is some sacred golden cow to you.  There are people that are very knowledgeable about hockey who’s named isn’t Green.  You go off some Bearchi comment that has nothing to do with anything we’ve been talking about.  What about Jake?  He has a unique skill set of both size and speed. It’s very rare so it’s not a political thing.  You want to make everything about politics now.  You think Tryamkin will be a great addition to the Canucks lol. That’s all I need to know.  I give you an olive branch and all you want to do is fight.  You make little sense, you’re all over the place.  You can’t seem to stay focused on the debate.  You behave like a child, this isn’t Twitter.  Edit: You have to remember there are real people behind these screens, show a little respect. At least as much as I showed you up until you insulted me.  

I've been following this back and forth and I gotta say I don't know what planet people have Rathbone ranked higher Juolevi but it shouldn't be this one if they're able to read simple passages and apply simple logic. There is definitely a reason Juolevi is lined up on a starting pair and Rathbone isn't. Also Millsy is right in that the coaching staff and JB are literally saying that exact same thing in the media, not to mention the vast difference in experience. I would say this is a very uneducated take.

[NHL'er]

12 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Who is this EP guy. Such a bust losing the puck to a second rounder. 

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

13 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

.....Virtanen's legs...

 

Also Rafferty isn"t getting much time to show his stuff....

[Mackcanuck]

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

16 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

 

It doesn’t look as “busy”. I don’t think many people will notice it as much during the game.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

7 hours ago, ImConfused said:

Holy Christ that's a rough looking lineup eh lol

That may have been the worst lineup in decades.