Lazurus Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) The rebuilds On this forum TO is vilified those bastards cheated, they told the world they were stripping it down to get better draft picks and player. In Vancouver the true fanatics held Benning's No Plan Plan up as the heralded only way to do it properly. Well a hockey generation later (five years), the team can measure each other without all the background noise of playing lesser opponents and having ballooned point totals by playing so many rebuilding or teams tanking to get better draft odds. It's mano o mano against all the Canadian teams including TO. Worse is Montreal, a team which has retooled 3 times during the heralded No Plan Plan. Canadian pride? Is there any? "Our team is the best"? Does that exist or is it simply, "Hughes is so cute and darts around the ice so easily" ignoring he is on the ice for fully half the goals scored against the team, half. The Zen Master, TG once posted while being bullied said "We'll See" and now 5 years later, We See. What we see is a team current 100% healthy, that is still more than 10 million over the cap limit, that has such great draft picks they can's make up a taxi squad of NHL caliber. Any of the good depth players have been traded or just let go for nothing. While some would say "nobody could expect this covid thing happening" they would be absolutely correct, but it is the same for all the teams, it is just this team is the absolutely worst off still. We see a media manipulate loss to individual people that cannot do anything to curtail this mess, they say how great is Green and then he should be fired and the lemmings follow, they say it is Virtanen and the sheep get in line, they say it was because Toffoli is missed and ignore how bad Hughes is on defence, and the herd gathers closer, the moooo and the fans mooo back. Individual thought is crucified. The mystery of running a team has been exposed, in years past is was behind closed doors and only apprenticeships that the secrets were passed down, servitude came through the apprentice to master acceptance and what happened was essentially not easily learned, those secrets of contract contents, how much, how long, what clauses how to actually do a trade in the NHL and all the business things are now in the public realm, the only thing keeping the old system is the "old boys club" upholding the "unwritten rules". But to the simplified Shanaplan vs the No Plan Plan. Forget all the mysticism of how magical it is to run a team, how decades are needed to be good, Benning -60 Dubas 35? Lets just go mano o mano to see which team in Canada gets bragging rights Won't be Vancouver because these particular circumstances will never happen again most likely. Never again will there be an all Canadian division where all the effort is put into defining the best Canadian team. 5 years later WE SEE Shanaplan - 7 No Plan Plan - Back to the drawing board. Maybe the Shanaplan is the new template Edited February 5, 2021 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Let's see how Toronto does in the playoffs with their AHL quality blueline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Lazurus said: The rebuilds On this forum TO is vilified those bastards cheated, they told the world they were stripping it down to get better draft picks and player. In Vancouver the true fanatics held Benning's No Plan Plan up as the heralded only way to do it properly. Well a hockey generation later (five years), the team can measure each other without all the background noise of playing lesser opponents and having ballooned point totals by playing so many rebuilding or teams tanking to get better draft odds. It's mano o mano against all the Canadian teams including TO. Worse is Montreal, a team which has retooled 3 times during the heralded No Plan Plan. Canadian pride? Is there any? "Our team is the best"? Does that exist or is it simply, "Hughes is so cute and darts around the ice so easily" ignoring he is on the ice for fully half the goals scored against the team, half. The Zen Master, TG once posted while being bullied said "We'll See" and now 5 years later, We See. What we see is a team current 100% healthy, that is still more than 10 million over the cap limit, that has such great draft picks they can's make up a taxi squad of NHL caliber. Any of the good depth players have been traded or just let go for nothing. While some would say "nobody could expect this covid thing happening" they would be absolutely correct, but it is the same for all the teams, it is just this team is the absolutely worst off still. We see a media manipulate loss to individual people that cannot do anything to curtail this mess, they say how great is Green and then he should be fired and the lemmings follow, they say it is Virtanen and the sheep get in line, they say it was because Toffoli is missed and ignore how bad Hughes is on defence, and the herd gathers closer, the moooo and the fans mooo back. Individual thought is crucified. The mystery of running a team has been exposed, in years past is was behind closed doors and only apprenticeships that the secrets were passed down, servitude came through the apprentice to master acceptance and what happened was essentially not easily learned, those secrets of contract contents, how much, how long, what clauses how to actually do a trade in the NHL and all the business things are now in the public realm, the only thing keeping the old system is the "old boys club" upholding the "unwritten rules". But to the simplified Shanaplan vs the No Plan Plan. Forget all the mysticism of how magical it is to run a team, how decades are needed to be good, Benning -60 Dubas 35? Lets just go mano o mano to see which team in Canada gets bragging rights Won't be Vancouver because these particular circumstances will never happen again most likely. Never again will there be an all Canadian division where all the effort is ut into defining the best Canadian team. 5 years later WE SEE Shanaplan - 7 No Plan Plan - Back to the drawing board. Maybe the Shanaplan is the new template Toronto started rebuilding well before us and yet we’ve won more playoff rounds than they have (to date). Have the Leafs even won a playoff round with Matthews, Marner, and Tavares yet? Shanaplan is diharrea. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 So what's your suggestion, OP? Fire sale? On the heels of a season where they demonstrated resilience and defeated two gritty, hard-nosed teams and almost miraculously pulled off a 3rd series win, and while the Leafs folded like a lawn chair against a defensively stifling Blue Jackets team while playing a soft game? Hughes may have looked weak defensively and the bottom-6 may have been awful at times, but letting the kids carry the offensive load after attempting to shore up the back end with what was available doesn't seem like too bad of a move (no one could've predicted how Toffoli would've exploded offensively or how the defense has holes, but at least the heart and talent is known to be on the Canucks while the Leafs still have yet to prove that in the postseason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 46 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Let's see how Toronto does in the playoffs with their AHL quality blueline. Compared to Vancouver's AHL defence? True Van has more AHL players but I don't think this is good comparison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said: Toronto started rebuilding well before us and yet we’ve won more playoff rounds than they have (to date). Have the Leafs even won a playoff round with Matthews, Marner, and Tavares yet? Shanaplan is diharrea. Don't be doing revisionist history here Shanahan was hired shortly before Benning. TO got Taveras, Benning got Eriksson so? TO fans are upset not winning more playoff rounds, like is posted Vancouver fans almost pee themselves thinking they might make the playoffs? The Canucks won one round of the playoffs. the fluke that allowed them into a chance for a play in, you know when the NHL expanded that chance to 24 teams and the Canucks then got in? Unearned chance? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 So was the Shanaplan to get 4 forwards to take up 50% of your cap space, have your starting goalie become a UFA this year and be able to walk over to any other team and then to have your entire bottom 6 forwards on expiring contracts? Good luck with that plan Shanahan... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) retread thread if there ever was one. been. done. before. endlessly (and in far more detail/context). sorry - but that wasn't worth the read. . Edited February 5, 2021 by oldnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: So what's your suggestion, OP? Fire sale? On the heels of a season where they demonstrated resilience and defeated two gritty, hard-nosed teams and almost miraculously pulled off a 3rd series win, and while the Leafs folded like a lawn chair against a defensively stifling Blue Jackets team while playing a soft game? Hughes may have looked weak defensively and the bottom-6 may have been awful at times, but letting the kids carry the offensive load after attempting to shore up the back end with what was available doesn't seem like too bad of a move (no one could've predicted how Toffoli would've exploded offensively or how the defense has holes, but at least the heart and talent is known to be on the Canucks while the Leafs still have yet to prove that in the postseason). Last year? They were not in a playoff spot, they had lost 7 of the last 11 games and were going down. The NHL expanded playoff hopefuls to 24 teams. The NHL allowed the Canucks to break the rules (cheat) for icing a team that was over the cap, the only team over, by more than 10 million for the play in round. They then won ONE ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS and lost the second round. They were still more than 10 million over the cap. Oh and lets forget the outstanding goaltending from both Markstrom and Demko who stopped most of the 50 shots per night. Hughes is on the ice for half the goals against this year, if it was Jake fans would be lining up to drive him to the airport. HALF the total goals against. And he is averaging only 17 minutes or so a game. But the difference, a big one apart from the plan worked and they drafted really good players was the adept managing of the cap, deft trades and confident decision making in hiring and firing good coaches and scouts, ya good drafting too. All appear to superior right? Do they not have more cap space? Players other teams might want in a trade, no have the prestige of being the best team in Canada? That really pis ses me off, they are that far ahead. IMO this team will need to do the Colorado solution, Sakic had to moved cherished or at least valuable young players and bite the bullet on two bad years to retool his franchise and put them at the top now. Is there a bag on head emoji? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: So was the Shanaplan to get 4 forwards to take up 50% of your cap space, have your starting goalie become a UFA this year and be able to walk over to any other team and then to have your entire bottom 6 forwards on expiring contracts? Good luck with that plan Shanahan... I am sure that is better than having over 10 million watching games. Or over 20 million on your bottom 8 players that don't score, love that 10 million dollar 4th line, Beagle, Rousell, Sutter, vs TO's, 2.5 mil 4th line, hat trick? Goalie of the future? You mean Demko, I am sure some one will get a deal done before he gets snapped up in the expansion or UFA. I wish the entire bottom six would be gone then the team could make deals with team that are losing good players in the draft the bonus would be also getting the added 20+ million for Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Miller, Demko, Hughes next contracts that ALL COME WITHIN A YEAR, no staggering those. So a 11 million 3rd or 4th line 11 million sitting in the stands being paid not to play Not have any extra expansion spots vs having an extra 2 Still being capped out because of unplanned new contracts for star players And still be concerned about winning more rounds of the Stanley Cup playoff vs hoping to get a sniff of a chance? 12 minutes ago, oldnews said: retread thread if there ever was one. been. done. before. beaten to death . Well the name suits then, Oldnews, ;). with this team it is sometimes just filling in the blanks But the players are trying or at least they were but it isn't like they will get fired for getting depressed by losing so much. But like the post said of the Zen Master "We'll See" So I guess you agree then being it is oldnews. Who is the better team in Canada, this year is mano o mano do you wish it was the Canucks? Any answer other than yes means you are a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImConfused Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Lazurus said: Canadian pride? Is there any? "Our team is the best"? Does that exist or is it simply, "Hughes is so cute and darts around the ice so easily" ignoring he is on the ice for fully half the goals scored against the team, half. Had to stop reading when I saw you raggin on Huggy Bear lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Lazurus said: Compared to Vancouver's AHL defence? True Van has more AHL players but I don't think this is good comparison Toronto has 2 NHL quality defenders in Muzzin and Brodie. Our group is capable, but held back by a bad coach in Baumgartner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Lazurus said: Don't be doing revisionist history here Shanahan was hired shortly before Benning. TO got Taveras, Benning got Eriksson so? TO fans are upset not winning more playoff rounds, like is posted Vancouver fans almost pee themselves thinking they might make the playoffs? The Canucks won one round of the playoffs. the fluke that allowed them into a chance for a play in, you know when the NHL expanded that chance to 24 teams and the Canucks then got in? Unearned chance? We all know Toronto is better than Canucks for now. That can change though with all the expiring contracts and maybe a new GM. Still Toronto has not done much in playoffs with their offensive talents. They need a better goalie and their defense needs to improve more but adding Brodie and Muzzin is going in a right direction unlike the Canucks. Nothing bad to say about the Leafs, I respect the way they play hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, King Heffy said: Toronto has 2 NHL quality defenders in Muzzin and Brodie. Our group is capable, but held back by a bad coach in Baumgartner. well, they actually have Reilly too who is good as an offensive Dman. A pretty good d prospect in Sandin. IMO with departures of Tanev and Stecher, we actually have less depth in D than Toronto. Case in point, we have rookie Chatfield playing while Benn is our solution to Tanev leaving. So its both a flawed system plus lack of defensive skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, DefCon1 said: well, they actually have Reilly too who is good as an offensive Dman. A pretty good d prospect in Sandin. IMO with departures of Tanev and Stecher, we actually have less depth in D than Toronto. Case in point, we have rookie Chatfield playing while Benn is our solution to Tanev leaving. So its both a flawed system plus lack of defensive skills. Rielly's absolutely atrocious in his own end. He gets exposed as AHL trash really easily when the games start to matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Rielly's absolutely atrocious in his own end. He gets exposed as AHL trash really easily when the games start to matter. Yeah but Muzzin and Brodie have been added as support. While Benning has gotten rid of the only defensively reliable dman we've had. You know very well that Tanev used to face the top scorers and was always used in PK and as a shut down Dman. Who do we have now that can play Tanev's role? Hamonic? Benn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 7 hours ago, King Heffy said: Let's see how Toronto does in the playoffs with their AHL quality blueline. Groundhog Day............Laffs play Bruins in postseason. Laffs lose to Bruins in postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: 11 hours ago, King Heffy said: Let's see how Toronto does in the playoffs with their AHL quality blueline. Groundhog Day............Laffs play Bruins in postseason. Laffs lose to Bruins in postseason. True but maybe the sad commentary is Vancouver fans may be watching those playoffs again and wonder why the Canucks aren't doing as good. Edited February 5, 2021 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 42 minutes ago, Lazurus said: True but maybe the sad commentary is Vancouver fans may be watching those playoffs again and wonder why the Canucks aren't doing as good. I'm only sad in that scenario that one team has to win. Not sure who I dislike more. The Laffs or the Ruins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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