[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Calgary Lames | February 17, 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | SN1, SNP

[bree2]

18 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Yes.  It makes me laugh to listen to people in here blaming the loss on Virtanen.  It's absurd.  Even that goal that came after he did not clear (was doubled virtually instantly by Mackey and Lucic) - there were a string of failed clears and errors that culminated in that goal - Virtanen's at worst, was the 3rd worst 'error' on that play....

Actually Jakes was the first and it snowballed from there, it happens, but the Canucks  will learn and so will Jake!

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, bree2 said:

we also need our stars and we don't need them to be disrespected. they are young and learning, Tanev plays for the flames now,   we have our players and yes there are going to be mistakes, not every game is perfect! GO CANUCKS GO!!

that's not 'disrespect'.  it's a dose of simple reality.  I have a world of respect for these young players - I realize their talent, their importance and most of all - that they are going to make mistakes = they are not in their 'prime', not even close.

 

If you want to respect them - don't patronize them, or blame their mistakes on their coach.  Constructive criticism is being direct and honest.  When Hughes stays on the ice for 2 and a half minutes and takes a penalty at the end of it - that results in a gwg - that's a Hughes mistake, period.

 

Railing against the Sutters, Beagles, Virtanens, Edlers, etc - while wilfully fanboy blinding oneself to the limits of these young players - is not 'respect.'

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, bree2 said:

Actually Jakes was the first and it snowballed from there, it happens, but the Canucks  will learn and so will Jake!

nonsense.  watch the play again. 

 

They spent a long time in their zone - long before that there was both a failed clear - a much easier opportunity to clear than what Virtanen had - and then a tired/frustrated slashing penalty taken by Juolevi.   Jake's was the last and the puck was in the net shortly after - and thus he's the scapegoat.

 

You're arguing from emotion and denial - not observation.

[IBatch]

35 minutes ago, oldnews said:

This really is a young star fanboy market.

Love to fluff the 'stars' endlessly. 

 

But don't have the vision, or sense, to see the obvious limits of their young players.

 

"EP is an elite shutdown center".  

 

"Hughes is a #1 - already had one of the best seasons for a Canucks D all-time."

 

Hughes last night - does not have the sense to get tf off the ice - taking arrogant ridiculously long double shifts - and in the end - he took an exposed, exhaustion penalty that resulted in the game-winning overtime powerplay goal.   But....it's all Green or Baumgartner's fault.   Don't have the sense or guts to name it what it is - a young "star" making mistakes.   Instead of realizing that 20 year olds tend to come with growing pains - Vancouver deludes itself that players like Hughes are 'in their prime', ready to carry this team, and being dragged down by overpriced veterans.  What an absolute noob take.  This market fluffs them endlessly and prematurely - and does a disservice in the process.  What courage and analytical genius it takes to fanboy the stars.

Get off the ice and stop disrespecting your team-mates Quinn.  Ironically, they tied the game up with you in the box.  That's an important learning window.

 

EP - lacking confidence - not taking shots - faking that one timer on the powerplay time and time again - but....it's all Brown's fault.   I'm not going to bother to post EP's outcomes - they're no more flattering than Hughes (if as).  There's no point in being critical - the young guy is a brilliant talent that works hard and bleeds frustration due to his desire to play at the top of his game - at both ends of the ice.  I have nothing but patience for him - but realistically - he too still needs to play with a foundation.

 

This team needs it's Motte, Beagle, Sutter, Edler types far more than it realizes.

This market was oblivious to how much it needed Tanev - that would be my main critical point regarding the offseason - Tanev imo should have been priority #1.

That said - there is no deadline to find a partner for Hughes.  Yeah - he's going through some growing pains playing with an 8th man, a LHD in Benn (and a rusty Hamonic before him).   That remains the top priority for the franchise imo - whether they acquire a young RHD, or potentially have that player already in the system. 

I am looking forward to seeing what Tryamkin looks like beside Hughes - that may be one 'ace' that influenced those decisions...

Really like what you said about our vets. All the complaining on here about the roster ones (LE, Luongo's and Bear - hey i totally get that), like decent comparables grow on trees - and are a dime a dozen (half the cost)...at best we'd be lucky to get what Sutter, Myers, AR, Beagle deliver at 75 cents on the dollar.   McEwen isn't there yet sorry, and Myers is worth every cent plus he's earned it.   Nobody complained about Hamhuis and Erhoffs salary (I think), Ballards yes of course - that's 6 plus million sitting on the sidelines in today's game (MG mini-LE...well add booth and really the two together are exactly like LE, except man could of we done something better with that cap right?)...

 

Myers reminds me a little of Babych,  not in his play two completely different players - but in his importance to the top four.    And that both guys have an extra gear and were in their early 30's with us... we lose him at the Seattle draft - without an excellent escape plan ... we are back to Del Zotto/Hutton issues...as in way over their heads (Chatfield..could you imagine?)... extremely unlikely we will find a UFA to fill his giant sized role.

 

Who's replacing Sutter anyways?   We'd be smart to consider re-upping him on a cost friendly medium term deal to take over Beagles spot.   If not who will we sign to do that job?   AR is the only guy we can replace and easily  save money on - McEwen maybe.    For those of you that think our pool is going to step and do a better job it won't happen.   Just look at TO,  tried for years ... losing Kadri was a mistake.    Won't get vets like that every year that's for sure. 

 

Im glad the cap situation will organically improve - and i'm also glad we won't be paying two players salaries for either EP or QHs next contract either.    Superstars sell tickets, but they don't always work out well for teams cap structure.    If we can keep things 7 and under we are laughing. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by IBatch

[Nucker 67]

30 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Hughes last night - does not have the sense to get tf off the ice - taking arrogant ridiculously long double shifts - and in the end - he took an exposed, exhaustion penalty that resulted in the game-winning overtime powerplay goal.

I believe Green said that he's not putting any reigns on Hughes, and going to let him just play his game and figure it out, he's smart etc. Hughes gets away with a ton of mistakes, it's like they don't happen in Green's eyes, yet, Jake makes an error and he sits the next game. Is Green just so tickled that Quinn plays here he's not going to try and teach him anything? Double-standard.

 

I just hope they continue to let Juolevi play and develop into a very good NHL Dman. . 

[BarnBurner]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

He looks like he should be in some kind of parade! Haha! 

[ruilin96]

Flames fans are the worst:

 

For years they disrespect the Sedins for being "soft" yet the worship their softies in their top line in Gaudreau and Monahan.

 

For years, they said they can't stand Kesler and Burrows and would never cheer for a guy like them even if they are on the Flames. Yet, they see Tkachuk as a folk hero and even settled on the fact that he will be the next captain when Giordano retires. Tkachuk is 10 times worse than Kesler and Burrows combined.

 

Flames fans called Canucks fans whiners but for years they whine about 2004 and how "the puck was in the net." Imo, Flames fans deserve the screw job in 2004 since Otto kicked the puck into the net in 1989. Their first cup isn't even a legit Stanley Cup, and they should not even be in the 2004 Finals if it weren't for Steve Moore.

 

Can't stand those losers from cowtown, they will always be my #1 least favourite team and #1 least favourite fan base.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Boest-er]

@oldnews coming in with the hard facts and im here to see it lol

 

Yall really need a scapegoat that bad, that you blame virtanen game after game, but my man Horvat is the one making the biggest difference(or non difference) he needs to set the tone. 

Sure you can say he's not a known hitter, but then what is he using his frame for? hoglanders the one winning puck battles all day long at his stature, if Horvat was able to just finish his checks, not even have a big hit, but just wear the opponent down then hes doing a great service for everyone and setting that tone that this team wont play like pansies

[oldnews]

If you want to 'respect' the young players - give them a #proper "foundation".  And realize/recognize/respect/appreciate what the foundation provides/complements.

Which is what Benning has done.

Which is what Gillis did when he brought in Malhotra types to support (veteran) Sedins.

If you don't like it - you don't understand the game, or team-building.

 

And for the record - Eriksson is not one of those 'foundation' pieces - he was a mistake - of a different kind.

None of Beagle, Sutter, Edler, etc are 'mistakes'.  They are necessary foundation, period.

You might argue that there may be better cap value options out there - but until you are able to identify/name those and can realistically present a real world opportunity to acquire or sign those, then it's pointless - and regardless, these types of players are needed and they are among the best in the business in their roles. 

[BarnBurner]

48 minutes ago, SergioMomesso said:

Louie is a dishwasher getting an executive chef wage.

Well, he must be the best damn dishwasher on the planet! 

[BarnBurner]

50 minutes ago, oldnews said:

The snowshower forecheck drives me nuts.

He has an opportunity to put the body on a Lame D - and he does the LE.  Unacceptable.

 

Hoglander has been a bloody puck hound - all over the ice - takeaways, winning board battles, creating a whole lot of space drawing attention both in the zone and on the rush - and Horvat and Pearson are taking next to no advantage of it.   8 even strength points for Horvat and Pearson in 19 games....is not very good.

When is that last time you saw Horvat bull his way to the net?  I have a hard time recalling - might almost have to go back to the St Louis series for highlights.

Bo needs to watch some Stan Smyl videos.

 

Edit: There's a reason why Smyl's number is retired and hanging in the rafters. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by BarnBurner

[EmilyM]

24 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

I like that we all knew who he was referring to before we even had to read Hog's name

[180sret]

Bo has been struggling this year for some reason. He seems just a little lazy with the puck and his defensive play. I think he's trying a little to hard and he's getting caught cheating a little for offence. I remember his second year slump, he maintained his defensive structure and found his offence came from that. Hoping he figures it out soon as this team needs what he can bring.

[oldnews]

24 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I believe Green said that he's not putting any reigns on Hughes, and going to let him just play his game and figure it out, he's smart etc. Hughes gets away with a ton of mistakes, it's like they don't happen in Green's eyes, yet, Jake makes an error and he sits the next game. Is Green just so tickled that Quinn plays here he's not going to try and teach him anything? Double-standard.

 

I just hope they continue to let Juolevi play and develop into a very good NHL Dman. . 

You make a good point about Hughes getting liberty that Virtanen does not.

However - you've paraphrased an idea - with no context.

 

By 'not putting reigns' on Hughes - an idea in a vacuum - I would take that to mean you allow him to take risks and live with his mistakes.

 

But staying on the ice for 2 and a half minutes - repeatedly - is not the kind of 'mistake' I'm talking about  - it's a mental/judgement issue.  It's unacceptable for a few reasons - first, it says to his team-mates that he believes the difference must be/can only be made by him - it's not a team-mentality - and second, it exposes himself, and puts the team in a vulnerable position - as effectively played out and was magnified by the penalty he took.   I highly doubt part of Green's 'green light' is to stay on the ice as long as he wants.

I have absolutely no concerns about Juolevi.

I might like to see Virtanen with more ice time - but I generally trust Green's judgement - I highly doubt it's simply about favorites or double-standards - I suspect there is some pretty good reasoning behind it.  I believe he's leveraging Virtanen's minutes to make/try to force him to maximize every shift he gets - and I'm pretty sure he's tried the opposing strategy as well at times.   I thought Virtanen was generally quite effective last night, fishbowl incident aside.

[ruilin96]

2 minutes ago, 180sret said:

Bo has been struggling this year for some reason. He seems just a little lazy with the puck and his defensive play. I think he's trying a little to hard and he's getting caught cheating a little for offence. I remember his second year slump, he maintained his defensive structure and found his offence came from that. Hoping he figures it out soon as this team needs what he can bring.

He started the year hot. Bo is a streaky player, he will put up point per game in 10-15 game stretches, then go relatively quiet for 5-10 games and back on a hot streak again. In the past even when he wasn't scoring, he plays other aspect of the game well. I also found it a bit interesting that after he scored that PP goal, he seemed to have a bit of a debate with Newell Brown, which unusual especially after the player scored the goal.

 

I have faith with Captain Bo. I just don't know what is wrong with the lockerroom this year. It felt like we gone from the tightest and most unite locker-room to the least unite room in a few months.

[PhillipBlunt]

6 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

He started the year hot. Bo is a streaky player, he will put up point per game in 10-15 game stretches, then go relatively quiet for 5-10 games and back on a hot streak again. In the past even when he wasn't scoring, he plays other aspect of the game well. I also found it a bit interesting that after he scored that PP goal, he seemed to have a bit of a debate with Newell Brown, which unusual especially after the player scored the goal.

Maybe Bo went against Brown's plan, which is why he scored.  

6 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

 

I have faith with Captain Bo. I just don't know what is wrong with the lockerroom this year. It felt like we gone from the tightest and most unite locker-room to the least unite room in a few months.

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You make a good point about Hughes getting liberty that Virtanen does not.

However - you've paraphrased an idea - with no context.

 

By 'not putting reigns' on Hughes - an idea in a vacuum - I would take that to mean you allow him to take risks and live with his mistakes.

 

But staying on the ice for 2 and a half minutes - repeatedly - is not the kind of 'mistake' I'm talking about  - it's a mental/judgement issue.  It's unacceptable for a few reasons - first, it says to his team-mates that he believes the difference must be/can only be made by him - it's not a team-mentality - and second, it exposes himself, and puts the team in a vulnerable position - as effectively played out and was magnified by the penalty he took.   I highly doubt part of Green's 'green light' is to stay on the ice as long as he wants.

I have absolutely no concerns about Juolevi.

I might like to see Virtanen with more ice time - but I generally trust Green's judgement - I highly doubt it's simply about favorites or double-standards - I suspect there is some pretty good reasoning behind it.  I believe he's leveraging Virtanen's minutes to make/try to force him to maximize every shift he gets - and I'm pretty sure he's tried the opposing strategy as well at times.   I thought Virtanen was generally quite effective last night, fishbowl incident aside.

It's not like JV hasn't had a pile of chances, because he has.   I expect if Hogs suddenly looks disinterested, does the lazy Goldobin skate back to the bench like he's just scored an important goal after a 2 minute shift he will also end up getting scratched.   I like JV, and like most fans want to see him succeed. At this point he's completely blocked on the R side barring injuries.   Our fourth line plays an crucial role for this team.   Tough tough minutes, if that's going to be his main role, then he needs to embrace it, produce like any other guy, and earn his ice time.   At this point his draft position is irrelevant.   Hoglander and Motter have shown the sort of passion that ANY young player should have.   Having him in the bottom six and as an injury replacement for the top six isn't the worst thing in the world - that's for sure too.    He's got two years to figure it out, not up the coaches anymore.   JB i'm sure had a lot more to say then his blurb about better get it done or he's going to get passed.   It's already happening. 

[Grape]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

This really is a young star fanboy market.

Love to fluff the 'stars' endlessly. 

 

But don't have the vision, or sense, to see the obvious limits of their young players.

 

"EP is an elite shutdown center".  

 

"Hughes is a #1 - already had one of the best seasons for a Canucks D all-time."

 

Hughes last night - does not have the sense to get tf off the ice - taking arrogant ridiculously long double shifts - and in the end - he took an exposed, exhaustion penalty that resulted in the game-winning overtime powerplay goal.   But....it's all Green or Baumgartner's fault.   Don't have the sense or guts to name it what it is - a young "star" making mistakes.   Instead of realizing that 20 year olds tend to come with growing pains - Vancouver deludes itself that players like Hughes are 'in their prime', ready to carry this team, and being dragged down by overpriced veterans.  What an absolute noob take.  This market fluffs them endlessly and prematurely - and does a disservice in the process.  What courage and analytical genius it takes to fanboy the stars.

Get off the ice and stop disrespecting your team-mates Quinn.  Ironically, they tied the game up with you in the box.  That's an important learning window.

 

EP - lacking confidence - not taking shots - faking that one timer on the powerplay time and time again - but....it's all Brown's fault.   I'm not going to bother to post EP's outcomes - they're no more flattering than Hughes (if as).  There's no point in being critical - the young guy is a brilliant talent that works hard and bleeds frustration due to his desire to play at the top of his game - at both ends of the ice.  I have nothing but patience for him - but realistically - he too still needs to play with a foundation.

 

This team needs it's Motte, Beagle, Sutter, Edler types far more than it realizes.

This market was oblivious to how much it needed Tanev - that would be my main critical point regarding the offseason - Tanev imo should have been priority #1.

That said - there is no deadline to find a partner for Hughes.  Yeah - he's going through some growing pains playing with an 8th man, a LHD in Benn (and a rusty Hamonic before him).   That remains the top priority for the franchise imo - whether they acquire a young RHD, or potentially have that player already in the system. 

I am looking forward to seeing what Tryamkin looks like beside Hughes - that may be one 'ace' that influenced those decisions...

I agree with the general sentiment. Canucks fans coddle their young stars too much, especially here on CDC. EP has been subpar this year, and despite the stats, I think QH has arguably been worse. But you're going too far in the opposite direction.

 

Hughes' poor play so far this year does not mean he didn't have one of the best season for a Canucks defenseman last year, if not the best. Why are you even using that as an argument? If Hughes wasn't a #1 defenseman last year it terms of impact, then this franchise hasn't ever come close to having a #1 defenseman. I also find it ignorant that you're blaming him for staying on for too long without knowing the context. I generally defend coaches like Newell Brown like you are because it's ultimately players like Hughes, EP, JT that are responsible, for being too passive, but to blame him on the ice for 2+ minutes at a time as if you know it was his choice, is quite shallow.

 

The argument against guys like Sutter and Beagle isn't that they aren't useful - if they aren't useful then they wouldn't be playing.  The argument against them is that they've taken so much of the cap and they aren't players you win the cup with on the third and fourth line due to their age. When you have two young franchise players in their rookie contracts, you don't waste their years by having 25 million tied up to your bottom six players. I think it's hypocritical to bring up how much we need those guys, but then lament why we didn't sign Tanev - we couldn't.

 

In an ideal world, we wouldn't have wasted a year of QH's rookie contract, wouldn't have overpaid for replaceable third/fourth liners, and we would have used that available cap space for guys like Tanev, and similar players that have significant positive impact. But as it stands right now, we aren't contenders, and I believe signing Tanev would have been simply a short term fix that may raise our playoff probabilities this year, but would have horrible long term implications given that Tanev is on the wrong side of thirty and we're not ready to complete yet. We need to be patient with our young guys, but that also means being patient with our roster, and not signing guys like Tanev to long term contract when you're not ready to compete yet - that's exactly how we ended up with the Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, and Sutter's.