Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[Josepho]

24 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Not directed at you particularly, but how does anyone on these boards “know” what Jim is doing or thinking? IMO it is all speculation. “We” have no idea what is really happening behind the scenes, nor do the media for that matter.

Some of the media has been spot-on in terms of what has been happening with this team.

 

A guy like Rick Dhaliwal has gotten so many things right over the years, he's not going to destroy his credibility by pulling things out of his ass.

[CaptKirk888]

Just now, Josepho said:

Some of the media has been spot-on in terms of what has been happening with this team.

 

A guy like Rick Dhaliwal has gotten so many things right over the years, he's not going to destroy his credibility by pulling things out of his ass.

Which he seems to be doing on a more regular basis IMO.

[Josepho]

5 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Which he seems to be doing on a more regular basis IMO.

Give me specific examples of what you're talking about.

 

Friedman also reported this if you don't believe Dhaliwal.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Josepho

[DSVII]

35 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Lucic, Ladd, Okposo... 

 

 

Saying that Jim made the same mistakes as Garth Snow, Chiarelli, and Murray doesn't exactly inspire confidence in JB does it.

 

One thing all three of those teams did was actually fire the management that signed those contracts, even the guy that drafted mcdavid. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by DSVII

[appleboy]

18 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

?

 

This makes no sense.

 

Everyone has a chance until there's zero chance.  You don't predict an outcome if you're running a team...you play for one.  Hard.  Until the end because even if you DON'T make it you want to instil that work ethic and attitude in your group.  You don't want to send a message that it's ok to quit.

 

There is absolutely no motivation in dragging people to the ground and kicking them when they're down.  That's old school but it's starting to really be a shift and to provide incentive you motivate people by teaching/helping them, not consequences and punishment.  Some of our players are their own (hardest) critics and as long as they're working hard to overcome the hurdles and putting in the effort to improve, you allow them room to to that.  Sit them with a poke in the shoulder and yell in their ear and they're likely tuning out.

You don't over react in a year where everything's been thrown into the blender and spit out in a haphazard schedule to play.  The conditions are anything but normal and it's a bad time to assess things without factoring in what the changes and the schedule did to upset the balance. 

 

Sure, even before this they were struggling...young guys will do that as they figure out how to NHL.  I feel they're doing so.  Ripping it apart and ripping into them doesn't seem like it will help settle things...more the opposite.

The coach and players job is to give their all every game. No matter who is on the ice. Managements job is to build the team. Not just for this year but for the future. They need to make decision for the long term. They can't be worried about the players feelings. A big part of managing in todays NHL is cap management. The only way to keep their cap under control is to always have young players coming up from their system. Draft picks are the key to everything in todays NHL. Especially when you have some high paid young stars. You need to have cheaper talent to fill around them.

Every time they let a player walk away without getting a return they shoot themselves in the foot. Management should be making a decision before every trade deadline what their "realistic" chances are to make the playoffs and then act accordingly. We have all seen what happens to a teams cap structure if you are building your bottom six with UFA's.

Players like Petey , Hughes and others are going to want to get paid . They are also going to want to be surrounded by quality talent so they can win. Management needs to think about where we are going to be 3 years from now when these guys are at their peak. By planning ahead you are actually thinking of what is best for players.

 

 

[Curmudgeon]

10 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Saying that Jim made the same mistakes as Garth Snow, Chiarelli, and Murray doesn't exactly inspire confidence in JB does it.

It isn't meant to inspire confidence, it is meant to offer a comparison and explanation that he isn't the only GM to make mistakes. In life you have choices; you can look for the bad in things and never be disappointed, or you can look for the good in things and be encouraged. Up to you, champ.

[CaptKirk888]

17 minutes ago, Josepho said:

Give me specific examples of what you're talking about.

 

Friedman also reported this if you don't believe Dhaliwal.

Nope not important enough for me. Feel free to dig up his accurate quotes tho.

[appleboy]

4 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

It isn't meant to inspire confidence, it is meant to offer a comparison and explanation that he isn't the only GM to make mistakes. In life you have choices; you can look for the bad in things and never be disappointed, or you can look for the good in things and be encouraged. Up to you, champ.

You also must ask how many of Jim's choices are tainted by ownership. If owners will not allow a complete rebuild then Jim must find another way. Hopefully owners have seen their mistake.

We should be seven years into a rebuild when we are really only 3.

Edited March 27, 2021 by appleboy

[Josepho]

5 minutes ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Nope not important enough for me. Feel free to dig up his accurate quotes tho.

 

 

Just off the top of my head. Anyone who can identify obscure scouting hires clearly has some insight in terms of what the organization is doing.

 

Glad you can't back up your claims.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Josepho

[-DLC-]

12 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The coach and players job is to give their all every game. No matter who is on the ice. Managements job is to build the team. Not just for this year but for the future. They need to make decision for the long term. They can't be worried about the players feelings. A big part of managing in todays NHL is cap management. The only way to keep their cap under control is to always have young players coming up from their system. Draft picks are the key to everything in todays NHL. Especially when you have some high paid young stars. You need to have cheaper talent to fill around them.

Every time they let a player walk away without getting a return they shoot themselves in the foot. Management should be making a decision before every trade deadline what their "realistic" chances are to make the playoffs and then act accordingly. We have all seen what happens to a teams cap structure if you are building your bottom six with UFA's.

Players like Petey , Hughes and others are going to want to get paid . They are also going to want to be surrounded by quality talent so they can win. Management needs to think about where we are going to be 3 years from now when these guys are at their peak. By planning ahead you are actually thinking of what is best for players.

 

 

Planning ahead is one thing....but planning to lose is another.  That was more my point.

[CaptKirk888]

3 minutes ago, Josepho said:

 

 

Just off the top of my head. Anyone who can identify obscure scouting hires clearly has some insight in terms of what the organization is doing.

 

Glad you can't back up your claims.

I really don’t care enough to look as I told you.

by the way I said recently. only one provided is from this year. 1 is 2 years old, the other two are 4 years old. But nice try...

[JM_]

59 minutes ago, Silky mitts said:

Pointing out other bad contracts isn't making Jim's any better. Plus we have multiple terrible contracts signed. Myers, Sutter, Beagle, Rooster... holtby 

Rous is the only one I'd agree with, and only since the knee injury. 

[JM_]

28 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Saying that Jim made the same mistakes as Garth Snow, Chiarelli, and Murray doesn't exactly inspire confidence in JB does it.

 

One thing all three of those teams did was actually fire the management that signed those contracts, even the guy that drafted mcdavid. 

it means it was a competitive off season. 

 

We did fire our president if you recall. 

[xereau]

57 minutes ago, Silky mitts said:

Lmao now that is a spin. He was willing to stay in Vancouver, wanted to as well, Team mates wanted him back. He was not destined to go to the habs. In the end he couldn't wait any longer and thus the gem from Jimbo " Ran out of time"

Those are called platitudes. Toffoli was always going to Montreal.

 

No one who was ever traded to a team said, "Good, I didn't want to be there anyways." Ever.

 

That was another instance of a professional being a professional.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by xereau

[DSVII]

3 minutes ago, xereau said:

Those are called platitudes.

Tofolli was always going to Montreal.

Toffoli didn't sign with Montreal till day 3 of free agency. I respectfully disagree with that take.

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

for me none of this rises to the firing level, even if I considered them all mistakes which I don't, other than Jake getting 2 years, they were too worried about over paying in arbitration imo.

 

I don't think that list outweighs the U25 group or the playoff experience.

 

Maybe a good comparison situation here is the Flyers. Are they really better off for canning Hextall? or was Fletecher just a lateral or worse move? 

 

I'm not convinced that there's a magic GM solution out there thats going to be better. 

 

I do think a new president of hockey op's is a good idea tho, and something Jim needs. If we could get someone who could bring in better pro-scouting staff with him that would fix our main issues imo. 

 

 

 

Solid post Jimmy

Probably spot on with my own feelings

 

I think probably the only thing that has been glaring is how he has let assets walk away. Overall, I think he is a very positive person, and works off of feel more often than not.

 

IMO, this is generally no more evident than how he plays his UFA's right to the end of the season, not wanting to send the wrong message to his core. I think that this is what makes him look bad, to his distractors. IMO, I think hockey players understand the business more than he gives them credit for.

 

In the trades and UFA's signings,I feel, it is really a hit and miss proposition for most GM's, as there are not many trades where 2 equal players are traded for each other. Most times it is garbage for garbage. Just like CDC, no one wants to trade good players unless they have too. And signing UFA's is a normally a real crap shoot, as the player is now getting closer to the end of their productive years.

 

I will also never blame Benning for the Eriksson trade. Never! That was a executive decision based on the owners desire to help the Sedin's. A no win for Benning once it failed.

 

I think your point of the U25 players is a very good point. And really the one that gets him out of jail. 

 

As for the "Retool" in the early years. I am pretty much convinced that when the owner says to not tear it down, you don't. That pretty much sums that up there.

 

In saying all that, I believe next year is Benning's make or break season. IMO, no owner is going to fault a GM for this year, especially when he had a part of it (Eriksson)

Imagine how that 6 million (Eriksson) would have played into this year, if it had been available with out sell the farm.

 

Again, solid post!

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by janisahockeynut

[DSVII]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it means it was a competitive off season. 

 

We did fire our president if you recall. 

 So Loui was Trevor's idea? 

 

Again, this doesn't line up with the reason TL was let go (wanting a more slow cook rebuild)

 

But again don't think it being a competitive offseason absolves the GM of chasing the wrong assets. (If it comes out later aquilini pushed for Loui then sure)

 

 

[Aladeen]

2 hours ago, Silky mitts said:

He expressed loads of interest to stay, so most likely would've. The fact is we didn't have the cap space for a bonafide top 6 player due to terrible contracts hampering the team. Plus how Jim handled everything was so amateur , putting all his eggs in the OEK chase. The fact we lost assets as well for a rebuilding team for nothing is plain unacceptable. Toffoli trade was a good one if they were able to retain, which they failed to do so. Basically sums up what Jim's tenure has been here, lose assets and hand them out not gain and stockpile like we should've been doing.

I suppose how you say here could be the way it is/was. One thing to consider though is if it is as bad as you say that the Canucks have just been bleeding assets since JB has gotten here (keeping in mind how little he inherited) why would FA not have fired him years ago. As angry at the loss of assets you and other fans are wouldn’t FA be thousands of time angrier? That he didn’t instantly fire him on the spot for something so egregious as your POV would suggest would mean, at least to me, you don’t have the full story. 

[xereau]

20 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Toffoli didn't sign with Montreal till day 3 of free agency. I respectfully disagree with that take.

 

 

3 whole days? Holee.

[Josepho]

22 minutes ago, Aladeen said:

I suppose how you say here could be the way it is/was. One thing to consider though is if it is as bad as you say that the Canucks have just been bleeding assets since JB has gotten here (keeping in mind how little he inherited) why would FA not have fired him years ago. As angry at the loss of assets you and other fans are wouldn’t FA be thousands of time angrier? That he didn’t instantly fire him on the spot for something so egregious as your POV would suggest would mean, at least to me, you don’t have the full story. 

That suggests that Aquilini is a bad owner, which I think most people would agree with.