Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[4petesake]

2 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

I like Beagle but not for that term and money. Hamonic is exactly the kind of signings he should be making. Benn is holding Juolevi back. Roussel’s game smells like my compost pile. That entire bottom 6 is like a 5gal pail being dragged behind a speed boat. The drunk uncle that ruined the family wedding. The kid with the patchy beard that corrects you at Starbucks. The poop that comes 20 mins after taking a shower. I could go on forever. 

No, no. I got it. Please stop....

[Convincing John]

7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Again, based on what factual evidence?

 

Winning seasons? Playoff success? Cap management? Incremental improvement year to year? Trading? Free agent signings? 

 

Hard no to all of those.

 

I would say there might be 4 or 5 worse GM's at most currently in the NHL. My personal feeling is there are probably 3. 

He is just trolling you bro. Either that or he is saying these things to self medicate and suppress. If you don’t have a little voice in the back of your mind that whispers “Jim Benning is a horrible GM” then you’re either in a coma or you’re not an organic being. You’re some kind of Bot. Actually, even in a coma, you’d probably still have that voice periodically. Like if the TV was left on Sportsnet in your hospital room. 

[wallstreetamigo]

27 minutes ago, xereau said:

Beagle won a cup, tests #1 on all the fitness grinds. He was brought in, and rightly so, for  reason.

Eriksson simply fell off the earth. Contract was a no brainer at the time.

Roussel was brought in for the playoffs, and only the playoffs. Which were and still are a pipedream. Dumb.

Ferland was a smart signing, for if he regressed, LTIR was guaranteed. It was a gamble, and a smart one tbh.

Benn is and always has been a bubble guy. He's okay.

Hamonic is the same. Dime a dozen bubble guy. Has been okay.

Myers was a good signing, if you don't listen to the rabble.

 

Every single one of these guys are merely complimentary to the new young core, which are still several years from peaking.

 

Myers is the only one which will still be with the team when is does, and so all the rabble over this and that, is almost all meaningless noise.

They arent really complimentary though. As players yes to varying degrees. As contracts though? They have gone from albatrosses to actually costing the team Toffoli, Markstrom, Tanev, Stecher, or the assets they could have gotten by trading them as pending ufa players.

 

Cap space is flexibility. And Benning wastes cap space on replaceable spots where a 1 year, 1 mil player or a young player in the system could reasonably do the job.

 

Beagle and Roussel contracts were too long and too much money though. They arent bad players, they are just not worth their contracts. Both when healthy can bring something to the team.

 

At the time Loui was an ok player to sign but again the issue is mostly the term. He was used in a very specific way in Boston that helped him be successful. In Vancouver he was never used that way though unfortunately and has now regressed significantly.

 

Myers again the problem is term. I have no issue with him being signed but too many years. Likely not worth the 6 mil per any day other than free agent frenzy but it is what it is.

 

Benn was a reasonable gamble but should be traded now. Hamonic is the kind of deal/player Benning should have been signing all along.

 

You are forgetting a few guys who were extended on dumb contracts too though. Sutter for one.  

[Josepho]

Interesting that the Islanders managed to sign a cup champion veteran center in Filppula in that offseason for one year while we had to give Beagle four.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Josepho

[J.I.A.H.N]

32 minutes ago, xereau said:

Beagle won a cup, tests #1 on all the fitness grinds. He was brought in, and rightly so, for  reason.

Eriksson simply fell off the earth. Contract was a no brainer at the time.

Roussel was brought in for the playoffs, and only the playoffs. Which were and still are a pipedream. Dumb.

Ferland was a smart signing, for if he regressed, LTIR was guaranteed. It was a gamble, and a smart one tbh.

Benn is and always has been a bubble guy. He's okay.

Hamonic is the same. Dime a dozen bubble guy. Has been okay.

Myers was a good signing, if you don't listen to the rabble.

 

Every single one of these guys are merely complimentary to the new young core, which are still several years from peaking.

 

Myers is the only one which will still be with the team when is does, and so all the rabble over this and that, is almost all meaningless noise.

Not exactly sure where you were going with this.......

 

But I will admit I missed Myers..........who does bring extra things to the table,  He is not anything more than a #4, but he is not over payed for a UFA RHD

I will not quibble over half a million...........but that is still 10 million out of 24 million, with Myers included.........that is not a good example of how to spend money.

 

IMO, you are way off on Ferland.................the reason we got him for that price was of his concussion history, which could not be insured, which I believe tells you something

Yes, if he never had another one, it would have been a good signing.............but no one else though it was worth that much risk, and his value as a player is worth much more than 3.5 Million 'IF" he did not have that history.....so again no one else trusted his history of concussion not to continue with the type of player he was.

 

Eriksson had 1 - 63 pt season, the one before was 47, and one before that was 37............that is not a player you bank on 6 million on, especially because he was on a very good team, so it is not a big reach to expect his totals to go back down, when playing with the Canucks............for 6 million 6 years ago, that is like 7.5 million today or even last year............to high for what he brings

 

Benn played well in Montreal as a number 5, but wanted to come home, so he took a cut in pay to come home.

 

I think Hamonic was a good signing, and comes with a certain expected play level..........I think he is giving it...........for a million it is a good signing

 

Roussel....................man, I just don't think he brings enough..

 

So, IMO, which is just me.........but JB has failed in his UFA signings in general

 

Like I said, Beagle brings alot!

 

I will also quest the Holtby signing, but what ever??

[JM_]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I will probably contradict myself here but

As I see how Benning has built the club

I almost think Jim's job is done and we need to have someone else take over

Not because of anything he has done, but more so, IMO

His strengths are not in the field of completion

Matter of fact Jim has hinted we are complete several times

The acquisition of Miller and the trading for Toffoli

IMO, both premature, although I love/loved both of them

I think it was too soon...........

Sure I get the idea of letting the young guns experience the playoffs and winning

But, and it is a big for me, this season underlines exactly why

JB's decision was premature............he was not ready, and still had too much dead cap

preventing him from keeping his assets....good assets!

So, if we take a step back, imo, JB's decision was not a good one

and he should have used those assets to clear that dead cap

Now, IMO, it would be a mute point.........

So what next? Well, this is where, I think JB falls down

I am personally worried he goes back after OEL

Which, IMO, would be a huge mistake.

This is why, I think a greater mind than JB is needed, which is to know when to 

real JB in, and prevent those mistakes

In My Opinion JB has done a great job with, drafting, the farm team,, but I am not sure what else????

From that POV, maybe it is time he leaves????? I do not trust him to complete the job, in the right order

and in the proper amount of time...........

But in saying that, JB needs to be recognized for getting us here

I a perfect world, I would very much like to keep JB on in a advisor role, particularly in the drafting/development area

and on that note................what the hell is going on with DiPietro?

JB cetainly makes you go down the rabbit hole................ I got a head ache!

I like Jim, but if a real upgrade is available I'm fine with it, just like any other position on the team. So you could be right, his drafting job might be "done" in that sense. 

 

But change for changes sake or to appease the mob is a bad reason. 

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, xereau said:

I can't find where I read it, but it was reported that when Benning re-upped his contract there were certain clauses which explicitly stated that he did not have to report certain activities to the president. This was shortly before Trev bailed, and I'd bet my best steel that somewhere behind this smoke is the fire.

I don't know how anyone would have that info, contract details should be confidential, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was tension there. 

 

22 minutes ago, Provost said:

He wasn’t the boss.  Aquilini was and still is.

pretty sure he was Jim's boss  but the Sedin retool was a top down thing, thats certain. Some here want to pile it all on Jimbo but thats not fair. 

[gameburn]

On 3/26/2021 at 9:53 AM, appleboy said:

This is how I see Jim Benning's tenor.

 

Linden and Jim inherited an aging hockey club. One that had been on a win now agenda for several years in a row. Not only was the NHL product beginning to wane but their minor league system had been stripped to the bear bones . Most of the fan base expected them to announce a rebuild. To our surprise they instead went to the ufa market and continued with the win now agenda. After a decent season they were quickly and embarrassingly dispatched by the Flames. 

Season two fans were again prepared for the rebuild announcement. Even when asked directly about their plans they refused to even suggest the idea of a rebuild. Over the next few years they kept going back to the ufa market. Not once would they say the words rebuild. It was suggested that it would not be fair to put the twins through a rebuild. Not once did they come out and lay out a real plan. 

Once the twins retired you would think that would have triggered the club to use that opportunity to put forth a plan to rebuild the decimated organization. They sort of came out and hinted to a retool. LOL .  Yet they continued to go back to the ufa market. They made deals for other teams left overs to try and fill what Jim called the 22 to 25 year old players that were missing from our system. They were making moves to try to skip doing a proper rebuild. We began to see a conflict develop between Linden and Benning. Linden was starting to lean toward a proper rebuild and Jim wanted to continue on with the build on the fly motto. Management showed their true colors by siding with Jim.  Linden gets the boot.

Jim Benning's lack of planning and cap management has got the club into cap issues and restricted the clubs ability to add any talent for this year and next.       "That brings us to now".

 

So what is the plan? Be active at trade deadline? Playoffs at all cost? 

 

This club has been lacking a real plan of attack for years.

 

 

Maybe you see things differently. Please enlighten me.

 

 

I think there was a plan: (1) get interim fixes -- hope you can find gems in other players rejects (Linden Vey, Baertschi, e.g.) -- use draft picks for this, making it even worse; (2) value tenure and respect over the long-term benefit of rebuilding the team (let the Sedins retire in place, do the same for Edler); (3) spend money on short-term fixes (Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, Roussel) and (4) hope your draft picks work out, but don't get as many picks as you should, because you have to think of winning in the present.  Rebuild on the fly was and is the plan.  It's just not a very good plan, especially when combined with putting so much time and money into UFAs.  

 

The fanboi stuff is a problem. Too many of us have been too accepting of this.  The fans of many other teams and in many other leagues would not have put up with this.  Hamhuis walking for nothing... Markstrom and Tanev... walking for nothing.  No money for Toffoli, but more than enough for Eriksson, and now Holtby... (at least H's contract is shorter and less expensive.)  If you look at the great football teams of the world (Real Madrid, Man U., Bayern Munich, Barcelona) the fans are passionate and demand a lot more from their managements.  

 

2nd round picks for players that were never going to be top 6 players but were unsuited to play in the bottom 6 (Vey, Baertschi, etc.)  Seeing a hero like LInden let go, but never be given a proper explanation... 

Benning has been good at drafting, but not at much else.  How much is the owner's fault is the issue of course, and we don't have any way to complain about this or fix it from our side as fans.  I keep thinking of the Ballard years in Toronto: what could the fans do?  It took an ownership change.

 

I'll say this: if fans had been going to these games this year... there would at least have been booing and paper bags over heads. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't know how anyone would have that info, contract details should be confidential, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was tension there. 

 

pretty sure he was Jim's boss  but the Sedin retool was a top down thing, thats certain. Some here want to pile it all on Jimbo but thats not fair. 

I actually don't trust Aqualini.......he is a fan..........and even though he is a successful Billionaire, the fact is, he has no hockey back ground...................just a hockey fan

 

and IMO, he was influenced by the Sedin's and Benning

 

But yes, totally top down.....................

 

I would actually appreciate Aqualini making a statement that he was in fact involved in the Eriksson signing.............it would take some heat off of Benning

[J.I.A.H.N]

10 minutes ago, gameburn said:

I think there was a plan: (1) get interim fixes -- hope you can find gems in other players rejects (Linden Vey, Baertschi, e.g.) -- use draft picks for this, making it even worse; (2) value tenure and respect over the long-term benefit of rebuilding the team (let the Sedins retire in place, do the same for Edler); (3) spend money on short-term fixes (Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter, Roussel) and (4) hope your draft picks work out, but don't get as many picks as you should, because you have to think of winning in the present.  Rebuild on the fly was and is the plan.  It's just not a very good plan, especially when combined with putting so much time and money into UFAs.  

 

The fanboi stuff is a problem. Too many of us have been too accepting of this.  The fans of many other teams and in many other leagues would not have put up with this.  Hamhuis walking for nothing... Markstrom and Tanev... walking for nothing.  No money for Toffoli, but more than enough for Eriksson, and now Holtby... (at least H's contract is shorter and less expensive.)  If you look at the great football teams of the world (Real Madrid, Man U., Bayern Munich, Barcelona) the fans are passionate and demand a lot more from their managements.  

 

2nd round picks for players that were never going to be top 6 players but were unsuited to play in the bottom 6 (Vey, Baertschi, etc.)  Seeing a hero like LInden let go, but never be given a proper explanation... 

Benning has been good at drafting, but not at much else.  How much is the owner's fault is the issue of course, and we don't have any way to complain about this or fix it from our side as fans.  I keep thinking of the Ballard years in Toronto: what could the fans do?  It took an ownership change.

 

I'll say this: if fans had been going to these games this year... there would at least have been booing and paper bags over heads. 

You make a great point here..............trading for dregs, gets you dregs

The Bertuzzi's, Naslunds, et were trades done with players already playing in the NHL

They were better than 2nds when traded for

They were in fact smart hockey trades

I would not have had a problem with trading Virtanen in that type of trade

 

[gameburn]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:40 PM, BowtieCanuck said:

Had COVID not happened, this team would not only look different but would be in a far better position in the playoff this year. People tend to ignore the fact the cap is frozen and is at least a year or two away from that changing. Not at all surprised by how some fans ignore that and want to throw management and coaching under the bus.

I would argue that without the pandemic, the team might be doing even worse.  The team/ownership is insulated from the fans at the moment: they neither receive our money nor do they have to see our reaction in the stands. 

 

This team's fate was settled in the last months of last year and in the off-season: asset management has killed this team.

 

Travis Green is not the problem; management's failure to manage assets is the problem. 

[wallstreetamigo]

The one signing I dont really understand is Holtby. It seemed to be more to placate fans because they were letting Markstrom walk. A capable veteran backup could have been had for much cheaper and that wasToffoli money even with Benning being unable to move any cap out.

 

I like Holtby but it was just another way to hedge their bets because they had no confidence in Demko taking the starting reigns despite letting Markstrom go (which could have been farmore justified with an expression of confidence in Demko)

 

Looking back on it now, Dipietro could have been getting some games in as a backup at least. The handling of his development is a serious black mark on Benning right now imo.

[wallstreetamigo]

Benning to me always feels like he is fighting with himself at what direction to actually take.

[wai_lai416]

On 3/26/2021 at 10:20 AM, apollo said:

i was fired up typing fast, i meant to say calder winner or runner up

 

brock and quinn both 2nd... also look at Quinn #'s vs Makar RN or Barzal...

 

Compare their stats, they're 3 clear winners if you look at it now, why can't u see that?

Um makar is in conversation for Norris before he was injured hughes is in conversation as one of the worse defender this year.. offensively they are about the same. Defensively makar wins by several country miles. Also what am I looking at for the hughes vs makar boeser vs barzal? They both have better ppg than hughes and boeser and both are far better defensively?

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, Josepho said:

Interesting that the Islanders managed to sign a cup champion veteran center in Filppula in that offseason for one year while we had to give Beagle four.

The Islanders are 1st in their division and we’re in year 4 of a rebuild. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by canuck73_3

[xereau]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

IMO, you are way off on Ferland.................the reason we got him for that price was of his concussion history, which could not be insured, which I believe tells you something

LTIR is LTIR, and I'm pretty sure that's the only way teams look at it.

 

In fact, if you look back at all the cup winners minus St. Louis, and contenders, for the last decade, have been playing LTIR games all season.

This way you have a built in expanded roster when the playoffs come around.

 

I fully believe that this was the actual intent behind the signing. Win Win either way for the team, where he plays, or his contract comes off the cap.

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, Aladeen said:

Then you should be able to buy the team for a deep discount and run it just the way you like 

I love the parroting of Aquilini’s pockets bleeding, his hands are dipped into so many ventures he’s fine. 

[canuck73_3]

38 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The one signing I dont really understand is Holtby. It seemed to be more to placate fans because they were letting Markstrom walk. A capable veteran backup could have been had for much cheaper and that wasToffoli money even with Benning being unable to move any cap out.

 

I like Holtby but it was just another way to hedge their bets because they had no confidence in Demko taking the starting reigns despite letting Markstrom go (which could have been farmore justified with an expression of confidence in Demko)

 

Looking back on it now, Dipietro could have been getting some games in as a backup at least. The handling of his development is a serious black mark on Benning right now imo.

While DiPietro isn’t getting games he has an excellent goaltending tandem and Ian Clarke to work with and learn from. While not an ideal situation declaring it a black mark is a tad dramatic imo. 

[4petesake]

8 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I love the parroting of Aquilini’s pockets bleeding, his hands are dipped into so many ventures he’s fine. 

I don’t have strong feelings either way on Aquilini but for those who do, they would do well to remember that at worst he is only the third worst owner in Canucks history. Off the top of my head there is Scallen who went to jail and Macaw who threatened to move the team.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

While DiPietro isn’t getting games he has an excellent goaltending tandem and Ian Clarke to work with and learn from. While not an ideal situation declaring it a black mark is a tad dramatic imo. 

Over a year without a competitive game for no actual logical reason is not overly dramatic. Its a mind bogglingly stupid development approach.

 

Being a 3rd string practice goalie is nowhere near good enough. Playing actual games is critical to goalie development.