Nikita Coming Back or No?

[appleboy]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Mobility is one of his strengths lol.   He's more "mobile" then both Hedman and AP.   He's extremely agile and a smooth skater.  Watch him closer i guess.   He's no QHs, but neither is anyone else and all these guys bring different things to the table.   Last night wasn't his best game, maybe his worst actually, and his worst was still better then a lot of Chatters early games this year.    Not many D's join the league and rush up the depth chart, it's way too early to just say "he's a 6 maybe a 7th at best".    As far as tree goes, well Button thinks it's a terrible mistake to waste a spot on him, and better to wait for a good opportunity.     Seems like both sides want him in camp to see what he can do, i trust the staff will make a decision on where to use him if at all, and fully expect IF gets a contract, he will start at 6/7th.   A Zack MxEwen like spare.   KHL is a lot different then the NHL, and he's almost a UFA.    See a one year show me deal and that's it.  

 

Edit:  Suppose it's an unfair advantage.   I've watched OJ live a couple of times in the AHL, makes those guys look like they have concrete in their boots, his edge work an backwards skating is elite.   OJ's floor is a third pairing NHL D and always has been.   That hasn't changed.    Is he top four?   Don't know.   But good third pairing that can move up is for sure a possibility still.   No reason not to rule that out after a handful of games.   Be surprised if he's not protected.   If that's the case then JB would have the same viewpoint as you do on OJ...don't implode if that happens. 

I think it would be a mistake to not see what they have in Tryamkin. I am not suggesting throwing the bank at him. He is such a unique package . Size and mobility wise. You don't want this guy panning out some where else. 

As far as OJ. I have yet to see anything out of him that gives me hope. He is not very physical and I have seen times when he seems to struggle to adjust quick enough . Maybe it is not a mobility issue but the mental side of the game. Some times it is the pace at which a player plays. Jake is a prime example. Jakes skating is elite but he has never been able to consistently get his game to the NHL pace. Some players can't make decisions quick enough.  Maybe OJ will adjust to the speed of the NHL. I worry that the injuries have effected him. Some players never transfer to the NHL game. 

As far as Chatfield, I do not consider him an NHL level replacement.

Rathbone is a player who they need to evaluate at the NHL level. ( Not sure he would need to be protected)  Players with Rathbone's skill set are highly sought after . I am more excited about him then OJ.

[EddieVedder]

It would be stupid to not get this guy back on the team.  But where would he play?

 

Maybe we can move Hughes to forward. Hmmmm

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

15 hours ago, IBatch said:

The KHL cap is 1.5 US...for sure IF he could have come back, we'd have made room for him if we wanted him back. 

Doesn't Russia have lower taxes than Canada?

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Doesn't Russia have lower taxes than Canada?

Doesn't matter at a max player cap of 1.5 though does it?   Their stars make less then Benn did for us. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by IBatch

[Canucks Curse]

edler-Myers

Hughes- Schmidt

Tryamkin-Hamonic

 

OJ and Rathbone as the left side extra's, chatfield on the right

Edler and hamonic are done in 2-3 yrs with this team any way so this is a good set up

If I recall, Tryamkin can play either side

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

edler-Myers

Hughes- Schmidt

Tryamkin-Hamonic

 

OJ and Rathbone as the left side extra's, chatfield on the right

Edler and hamonic are done in 2-3 yrs with this team any way so this is a good set up

If I recall, Tryamkin can play either side

Yes he can.   I agree with Button, why ruin an important spot when better opportunities will arise.   Hamonic is one for sure.  As is OJ.   Tryamkin has to come to camp and show everyone what he can do.   His development could have stalled completely playing in the KHL.   It's a little better then the AHL but not by that much.  Well i guess i'm disagreeing with Button because he doesn't see any point at all - for him  that ship has sailed, doesn't think he's very good.  Tryamkin hasn't made the top ten prospects in our organization for years.   AHL guys are in there.   He is not. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

33 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I think it would be a mistake to not see what they have in Tryamkin. I am not suggesting throwing the bank at him. He is such a unique package . Size and mobility wise. You don't want this guy panning out some where else. 

As far as OJ. I have yet to see anything out of him that gives me hope. He is not very physical and I have seen times when he seems to struggle to adjust quick enough . Maybe it is not a mobility issue but the mental side of the game. Some times it is the pace at which a player plays. Jake is a prime example. Jakes skating is elite but he has never been able to consistently get his game to the NHL pace. Some players can't make decisions quick enough.  Maybe OJ will adjust to the speed of the NHL. I worry that the injuries have effected him. Some players never transfer to the NHL game. 

As far as Chatfield, I do not consider him an NHL level replacement.

Rathbone is a player who they need to evaluate at the NHL level. ( Not sure he would need to be protected)  Players with Rathbone's skill set are highly sought after . I am more excited about him then OJ.

I don't disagree.  Just feel that expectations need to be seriously tempered.   No experts are slotting him into our top four, some feel he's a possible bottom six or 7th D.   Last time he didn't like getting 17 minutes on a terrible defense.   He's got a lot to prove to earn a spot, and that's exactly how the team should approach it.   If he can't earn a spot over guys like Brisbois and Chatter or OJ then he doesn't get one and good luck getting a deal somewhere else once he's a UFA.   He's not Chara folks.   Won't ever happen.   Hall Gill even.   The only way i see him getting a spot is if he uses his size like the Pronger videos he was forced to watch.   If he can't do that then might as well sign Guddy.   ONE shift bulldozing Getzlaf has scrambled some brains on this site. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by IBatch

[appleboy]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I don't disagree.  Just feel that expectations need to be seriously tempered.   No experts are slotting him into our top four, some feel he's a possible bottom six or 7th D.   Last time he didn't like getting 17 minutes on a terrible defense.   He's got a lot to prove to earn a spot, and that's exactly how the team should approach it.   If he can't earn a spot over guys like Brisbois and Chatter or OJ then he doesn't get one and good luck getting a deal somewhere else once he's a UFA.   He's not Chara folks.   Won't ever happen.   Hall Gill even.   The only way i see him getting a spot is if he uses his size like the Pronger videos he was forced to watch.   If he can't do that then might as well sign Guddy.   ONE shift bulldozing Getzlaf has scrambled some brains on this site. 

At one point Jim suggested that he could be a number one defenseman in this league. I think that created a very unrealistic expectation hear. Every team needs a shut down guy. PK 

Can he be that?    Thats the question.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

26 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Doesn't matter at a max player cap of 1.5 though does it?   Their stars make less then Benn did for us. 

Depends on the gap between the countries.  Plus I don’t know how their cap works over there (heh, not that I know a lot about the NHL cap rules ).  How much bonus money is there over there?  Is it part of that cap?  What about ‘under the table’ money (payoffs to friends/family like free accommodation, etc.,).  Not that we’re all Boy Scouts over here, but I’d imagine there’s a fair amount of corruption over there. Again, just my speculation.

[alt kilgore]

20 hours ago, Lancaster said:

His style is sometimes a bit unorthodox, which can be a positive at times as players are constantly drilled non-stop on specific plays.

 

One situation that really stood out for me was when he was defending a 2 on 1... and instead of skating backwards and maybe going down to block the pass, he just immediately charged the puck carrier.... and that attacking player just immediately froze for a split second as he went against conventional tactics.  Good or bad, it did work.  

 

I think that unorthodox style is the main problem for his critics. They don't get it. That and the constant negative drum beat on here and in the sports media in this town.  Easy to ridicule and invent stuff about someone thousands of miles away.

 

Sometimes I even wonder if I am mis-remembering his effect on the ice.  In spite of Willy and Doug, I saw a tremendous asset to the team. Something we have never had here.  You are right about that play. He has something called "intimidation". We shouldn't underestimate it. Especially for the playoffs.

 

Another great, and original, move was how he didn't even have to hit a player most times. I've never seen a Dman simply slowly squish a forward as he attempts to move up along the boards until he just falls down.  It was hilarious to watch.

 

He has a great reach and uses it as well as Myers.  He's a good skater.  He's a monster. The way he ragdolled Getzlaf was quite entertaining.  And I agree that if Jim blows this, it will be a huge black mark.  JB's legacy is his drafting. Which amounted to approving the picks that his director of amateur scouting worked to find and recommend.  Other than Virtanen and Juolevi, who he insisted on. The same director he subsequently turfed out because he and his pal Wiesbrod have to be the smartest men in the room. 

 

But I can see it now.  "I didn't have time to deal with Nikita and had to concentrate first on Petey and Quinn.  I ran out of time"   And if Nik is forced to stay in Russia for another year, and he then has the option to go to any team, he will never sign here.  And will probably take out his pound of flesh on our young stars when he plays against us.

[Amebushi]

I’m not sure exactly how to approach this. If Tryamkin wants to come to Vancouver we should entertain the idea and have some talks. The problem I see is that last time he demanded no AHL, no conditioning stints and complained about a bunch of things before taking off for Russia. This time he appears to be in shape but wants to be a top 4 D. (According to his agent). The question being...is he a top 4 D?  I would want him signed to a #6-7 D contract and a show me term. Thinking in the 1.5M range. That’s about the most he can make is Russia and I’m pretty sure leaves him as a UFA. Petey and Quinn will be signed, Edler will likely be retired and there should be some cap available. If he breaks out he will get paid either here or he can move on. If he doesn’t then at least it didn’t cost too much. If he isn’t willing to prove that he is a top 4 NHL player then trade his rights for whatever we can get out of Buffalo. It’s possible he is really good and then signs elsewhere but at least we got a year out of him. I would refuse to go more than 2 years unless it’s at league minimum. Who pays big bucks for a guy that has never played at a legit top 4 level in the league?

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Provost said:

As much as people rag on the media.... Button is one of the top talent evaluators out there.  He is consistently better than almost everyone else in his draft lists.

 

His rationale of waiting is the exact rationale I expressed about the Pearson signing.  It was the opportunity cost for that money, and that we don’t know what sort of Nate Schmidt types of opportunities could fall our way.

 

At the sane time, I disagree with Button and I think we should sign Tryamkin.

 

The reasoning is:

 

1.  There was no deadline and compelling reason to lock up Pearson when we did.  He is under contract until June 31st and can’t sign with someone else.  Wait until after the expansion draft and regular draft dealings have all taken place.  If nothing better falls our way for that money, then sure sign Pearson.  He is a decent complementary player.

 

2.  There is a deadline with Tryamkin.  He needs to get a paycheque next season, and if we aren’t offering him one he has to sign in the KHL just like last season.  We can’t just hold on to see if something better comes our way.  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

3.  The opportunity cost is much smaller.  We wouldn’t be signing Tryamkin to top 4 money.  It is going to be in the $2 million range give or take a little.  That is 3rd pairing/depth D pricing and you aren’t going to find a “difference maker” with that money.  
 

4.  With Pearson, there was an opportunity to flip him for an asset which could then be used as currency to create more opportunity, and not cost it.  If we got a 2nd for Pearson we could have used that to move Virtanen or Beagle as an example.  That would mean the freed up salary from not signing Pearson and moving other cap becomes around $5.5-6 million.  That can get you a different maker in this economic reality... heck that could get you a difference maker like Palat AND another asset as a sweetener to do it.

 

 

Buttons point is don't sign a guy when better guys will be available.   Just like you pointed out ok Pearson, there could be better guys available in that range and the third pairing is more important then a middle six winger's job.   Only six d's and 12 forwards right?  Point in case our deepest blue line ever had Ballard as our 7th, at the same price point that Myers has now.    Button isn't talking about a 1 million dollar one year show me deal, he's talking about a contract with term.   I've read on this site that if we don't sign him we are missing out on the next Chara (still which i'm sorry folks, that ship sailed years ago, he's not Chara he's not Hall Gill even).   I'm sure management will figure it out if he comes to training camp, which he says he is.    Button's point is why use up a spot when better opportunities will arise, isn't that the absolute definition of opportunity costs?   For example we have a bird in hand right now in OJ and Hamonic (he does play both sides).   Is he really better?   We simply don't have a clue.   KHL isn't what it used to be. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by IBatch

[EmilyM]

7 minutes ago, Amebushi said:

I’m not sure exactly how to approach this. If Tryamkin wants to come to Vancouver we should entertain the idea and have some talks. The problem I see is that last time he demanded no AHL, no conditioning stints and complained about a bunch of things before taking off for Russia. This time he appears to be in shape but wants to be a top 4 D. (According to his agent). The question being...is he a top 4 D?  I would want him signed to a #6-7 D contract and a show me term. Thinking in the 1.5M range. That’s about the most he can make is Russia and I’m pretty sure leaves him as a UFA. Petey and Quinn will be signed, Edler will likely be retired and there should be some cap available. If he breaks out he will get paid either here or he can move on. If he doesn’t then at least it didn’t cost too much. If he isn’t willing to prove that he is a top 4 NHL player then trade his rights for whatever we can get out of Buffalo. It’s possible he is really good and then signs elsewhere but at least we got a year out of him. I would refuse to go more than 2 years unless it’s at league minimum. Who pays big bucks for a guy that has never played at a legit top 4 level in the league?

I agree with every thought here regarding Tryamkin. Only thing I disagree with is that I don't think Edler is going to retire. I think he comes back on a team friendly deal for at least one more season, which creates a logjam of uncertain options on the left side.
Quinn is obviously 1LD. Then we have:
Juolevi, who we hope takes the next step and is a fulltime top 6 next season.
Tryamkin, who wants to play in the top 4 and refused to go to Utica prior.
Rathbone, who we also hope will take the NHL step next season.
Edler, who I believe will return and will definitely not be a 7D or Utica-bound.

Something will have to give.

[Goal:thecup]

In my opinion, you need about 8 solid defensemen with the big club and another 6 perculatin' and poppin' down on the farm.

We almost always have at least a couple defensemen out with injury, especially late in the season and into the playoffs.

Tryamkin doesn't need to make the top four, he only has to make the top eight at first, to avoid the AHL.

 

Hughes - Hamonic

Schmidt - Myers

Edler - Tryamkin

Juolevi - ? of: Chatfield, Rafferty, Bowey, Woo?

  

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, appleboy said:

At one point Jim suggested that he could be a number one defenseman in this league. I think that created a very unrealistic expectation hear. Every team needs a shut down guy. PK 

Can he be that?    Thats the question.

I'd seriously like to see that reference. 

[Provost]

1 hour ago, EmilyM said:

I agree with every thought here regarding Tryamkin. Only thing I disagree with is that I don't think Edler is going to retire. I think he comes back on a team friendly deal for at least one more season, which creates a logjam of uncertain options on the left side.
Quinn is obviously 1LD. Then we have:
Juolevi, who we hope takes the next step and is a fulltime top 6 next season.
Tryamkin, who wants to play in the top 4 and refused to go to Utica prior.
Rathbone, who we also hope will take the NHL step next season.
Edler, who I believe will return and will definitely not be a 7D or Utica-bound.

Something will have to give.

Tryamkin plays both sides, and played predominately RD.

 

If Edler and Hamonic want to come back, it should be in team friendly deals under $3 million.  We should only bring one back really as we need to slowly bring in younger players rather than have most of our defence over 30 and then have to do a wholesale change a year or two from now.

 

We won’t have both Juolevi and Rathbone as starting 6 next year.  Maybe if we have 8 guys and rotate them out if everyone is healthy.  
 

I wouldn’t be adverse to trading Schmidt after the expansion draft as his value would be highest when several teams will lose a top 4D.  I also wouldn’t be adverse to trading Juolevi as I think Rathbone just has a much higher ceiling and we can use Edler as a stop gap until Rathbone can be counted on for significant minutes.

 

[Googlie]

5 hours ago, appleboy said:

I think it would be a mistake to not see what they have in Tryamkin. I am not suggesting throwing the bank at him. He is such a unique package . Size and mobility wise. You don't want this guy panning out some where else. 

As far as OJ. I have yet to see anything out of him that gives me hope. He is not very physical and I have seen times when he seems to struggle to adjust quick enough . Maybe it is not a mobility issue but the mental side of the game. Some times it is the pace at which a player plays. Jake is a prime example. Jakes skating is elite but he has never been able to consistently get his game to the NHL pace. Some players can't make decisions quick enough.  Maybe OJ will adjust to the speed of the NHL. I worry that the injuries have effected him. Some players never transfer to the NHL game. 

As far as Chatfield, I do not consider him an NHL level replacement.

Rathbone is a player who they need to evaluate at the NHL level. ( Not sure he would need to be protected)  Players with Rathbone's skill set are highly sought after . I am more excited about him then OJ.

Not very physical?

 

 

[appleboy]

40 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'd seriously like to see that reference. 

There was an interview where Jim actually said that he thought he could be a number one. I am looking.

[Jayinblack]

6 hours ago, appleboy said:

I think it would be a mistake to not see what they have in Tryamkin. I am not suggesting throwing the bank at him. He is such a unique package . Size and mobility wise. You don't want this guy panning out some where else. 

As far as OJ. I have yet to see anything out of him that gives me hope. He is not very physical and I have seen times when he seems to struggle to adjust quick enough . Maybe it is not a mobility issue but the mental side of the game. Some times it is the pace at which a player plays. Jake is a prime example. Jakes skating is elite but he has never been able to consistently get his game to the NHL pace. Some players can't make decisions quick enough.  Maybe OJ will adjust to the speed of the NHL. I worry that the injuries have effected him. Some players never transfer to the NHL game. 

As far as Chatfield, I do not consider him an NHL level replacement.

Rathbone is a player who they need to evaluate at the NHL level. ( Not sure he would need to be protected)  Players with Rathbone's skill set are highly sought after . I am more excited about him then OJ.

I've like OJ's game so far this year and have waiting hopefully to see him in a regular spot.  I think he's going to be solid for us for a long time... nothing flashy, but does everything decently, and limits mistakes.

 

Chatfield is the opposite... he's like Gaudette on the D... running around burning energy but out of position because of it.   

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, appleboy said:

There was an interview where Jim actually said that he thought he could be a number one. I am looking.

Don't look too hard (spend too much time).   This is the type of thing that one person says to the person next to him in a circle with 12 people so nobody can hear, and by the time it gets back around JB thinks he's a HHOFer.    Nowhere have i read or heard anything about JB or anyone projecting him to be a first pairing D, let alone a number one (which really only 15 or so guys in the league get to have a handle like that at any given time).   Even Jovo has been overlooked as been a number one for us in the past, despite his close finishes in the Norri voting and couple stellar years for us in the dead puck era.    Impact player on a two year contract ... JB says that about any guy he signs for two years. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by IBatch