Blackhawks player from 2010 championship team suing team for sexual assault by coach

[PhillipBlunt]

18 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

 

 

PhillipB, please don't take this the wrong way - it's not meant as an insult or a put-down, but you need to get informed as to how sexual abuse can occur and I'm not the person to inform you nor do I believe this is the right forum to do so - others may disagree.  I will leave you with this small piece of advice however:

 

I know that sexual abuse can occur at any time, thanks. I know that the majority of the human trash that sexually assault people do so because they're in a position of power that they use as leverage over the person. The scum derives as much pleasure from holding a position of superiority as they do the actual vile act itself. They also use shaming tactics to scare the victim away from sharing the information with others. 

 

I also know that people can, if the option presents itself, fight back against the person assaulting them, especially if there is no distinct advantage of size that the scum can use to literally overpower the victim with. I don't know the specifics of this case, and there doesn't seem to be any info forthcoming, but it legitimately shocks me that a grown man would be able to sexually assault another grown man (especially one who is most likely far stronger and fitter than the scumbag) and actually get away with it.

 

However, there clearly are archaic ideals and institutions that still exist that seek to quiet these occurrences. One needs to look no further than seeing a police report that yet another scumbag who has sexually assaulted someone has served his sentence, and even though he's still considered a threat to society, is out of jail. 

 

I hope that the coach who did do this is skewered on a pike, and that the victim is able to extract his figurative or literal pound of flesh from the scum. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by PhillipBlunt

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That's a good question. Why would a grown man allow another grown man to sexually assault him? I'm assuming that most NHL players would react pretty severely (and rightfully so) if a coach came up to them and tried to get touchy feely. Cracking a jaw would solve that real quick. 

 

56 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Ok. Still, if the pervert approaches the player, that player can physically repel the pervert and then subsequently inform his teammates of the issue. 

 

33 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How am I blaming the victim here?

 

 

35 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It should be the only option.

Your posts seem to make my point.

Also, why do you get to decide what should be the victim's only option?

[BarnBurner]

56 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Ok. Still, if the pervert approaches the player, that player can physically repel the pervert and then subsequently inform his teammates of the issue. 

I agree, power in the wrong hands, can be and is often abused. But like Blunt is saying, call the creeps bluff. Bring it to the forefront immediately. There's no place at any level of hockey or in everyday life for that kind of abuse. 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

Your posts seem to make my point.

Also, why do you get to decide what should be the victim's only option?

So, you're not going to answer the question. I see. 

 

How am I deciding what a victim's options are. I'm doing what's known as giving an opinion. It's quite common. 

 

Victims of sexual assault should be shown support at every level of whatever they're involved in, be it school, work, or anywhere else. They should also feel that they have every right to defend themselves against unwanted advances from a predator, and suffer no recourse from doing so. 

[Gurn]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How am I deciding what a victim's options are.

 

51 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It should be the only option

 

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So, you're not going to answer the question. I see. 

So far too busy reposting the things you've said, that just don't make much sense; however just what question did you have in mind ?

Edited June 17, 2021 by gurn

[Fanuck]

7 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

I agree, power in the wrong hands, can be and is often abused. But like Blunt is saying, call the creeps bluff. Bring it to the forefront immediately. There's no place at any level of hockey or in everyday life for that kind of abuse. 

In 2021 we can all agree on this.  While the act of sexual abuse has and always will be a reprehensible act in any context - the public condemnation we see today against it wasn't always the case unfortunately as this subject was ignored, swept under the rug, or blatantly covered up by individuals in positions of power giving victims of the abuse even less of a voice then they already had.  People (not you) say they understand the act (sexual abuse) but then they completely wipe out any credibility of their understanding when they question how/why the act can occur in the first place?  When someone (again, not you BB) says they understand sexual abuse, but don't know how a grown man can molest another grown man who may even be physically stronger than the attacker, then they are lacking a fundamental understanding of how abuse occurs in the first place despite their claims that they get it.   When someone (not you) says why not just tell your teammates about it, or fight back, or beat the #$% out of the attacker, again, they are lacking a fundamental understanding of how these abuses occur in the first place.  Why did this coach from the Blackhawks organization choose a guy virtually NOBODY has ever heard of instead of a guy like, say Kieth for example? 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

I agree, power in the wrong hands, can be and is often abused. But like Blunt is saying, call the creeps bluff. Bring it to the forefront immediately. There's no place at any level of hockey or in everyday life for that kind of abuse. 

I guess there's still an archaic sentiment out there, especially in hockey (which shocks me considering how much Theo Fleury has been an advocate for victims of sexual abuse), that would automatically take the coach's side in the event that a coach was to sexually assault a player. 

 

If I was a coach and heard that a player knocked out a coach in the locker room, I wouldn't automatically reprimand the player and feel that they're a danger to society. I'd look at the occurrence and ask both the player and the coach what happened. If the player said that the coach grabbed him inappropriately, I'd take their statement seriously, as that's a hard thing for an adult male to admit, even in this day and age. There's a whole host of variables that play into this though. 

 

I'm just tired of sexual abusers doing a little time and getting out free to harm others. I want to see more of...hell, all of them, suffer and suffer greatly, instead of causing suffering. 

[knucklehead91]

Im suspecting Big Buff as the victim… The guy looked like he had lost his passion for hockey along time ago and he ended up just quitting kinda out of nowhere

[Gurn]

17 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I'm just tired of sexual abusers doing a little time and getting out free to harm others. I want to see more of...hell, all of them, suffer and suffer greatly, instead of causing suffering. 

Agreed.

[BarnBurner]

28 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So, you're not going to answer the question. I see. 

 

How am I deciding what a victim's options are. I'm doing what's known as giving an opinion. It's quite common. 

 

Victims of sexual assault should be shown support at every level of whatever they're involved in, be it school, work, or anywhere else. They should also feel that they have every right to defend themselves against unwanted advances from a predator, and suffer no recourse from doing so. 

I agree, we have every right to defend ourselves. 

 

Some guy grabbed me at a bar downtown Vancouver when I was 19, I instinctively reacted and threw the guy over the coat check counter. 

 

And they still let me into the bar. 

 

The point is, I dealt with it right there and then. 

[PhillipBlunt]

14 minutes ago, gurn said:

 

 

So far too busy reposting the things you've said, that just don't make much sense; however just what question did you have in mind ?

I've already asked it, and you chose to quote me instead of having actual discourse and discussion, which is far more constructive in my opinion, but clearly not what you have in mind here. That's unfortunate, but it is what it is. I'm fully willing to try to understand this situation from another perspective. 

 

Anyways, obviously any victim of sexual assault has more than one choice as how to deal with the horror of being abused.

 

They can

• remain silent for the rest of their life, endlessly suffering through a horrific cycle of self-doubt and wrongfully assigned guilt, for something that never should have happened to them
• remain silent for a prolonged period of time, doubting that anyone would believe them, until the pain of the incident brings them to face it
• contact the authorities immediately, giving a full account of the atrocity, and hope that the abuser is brought to justice, or
• protect themselves in the moment, in the name of self defense, hopefully ending the cycle of abuse. 

It's my continued disgust with the fact that the legal system still seems to give sexual abusers less than ideal punishment and subsequent sentencing that drove my feeling that protecting oneself and attacking the abuser should be the option. I admit that. It's not an opinion borne out of a disrespect for the victim, as I think you're alluding to. I want people who face these types of horrific situations to feel that they have every right to keep themselves safe and sound.

 

I don't see any other alternative that would be as effective in eradicating the scourge of abuse that plagues victims and potential victims. 

 

 

 

 

[RWMc1]

 

He didn't beat up the perpetrator and kept silent for years. Why? It was embarrassing and the person who committed the act had power over his future.

[Fanuck]

13 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

 

 

Anyways, obviously any victim of sexual assault has more than one choice as how to deal with the horror of being abused.

 

 

Sexual predators like Graham James don't pick victims with choices.  The opinion that victims have all of these choices indicates a fundamental misunderstanding how prolonged, repeated sexual abuse occurs and it is why that point of view is seen as 'victim blaming'.   We're not talking about one-off victims of an isolated incident who can flee or fight back if that's even possible under the circumstances - we're talking about a predator with predatory behavior where they groom/stalk a carefully selected person who they know has no options and won't pose any threat back to them whatsoever. 

 

These people had no choice and it is through sheer will and emotional perseverance that they manage to tell someone what happened.  They are survivors and hero's who don't need to be told they had 'choices'. 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Sexual predators like Graham James don't pick victims with choices.  The opinion that victims have all of these choices indicates a fundamental misunderstanding how prolonged, repeated sexual abuse occurs and it is why that point of view is seen as 'victim blaming'.

When you say that the victims don't have choices, what do you mean? Honestly wanting to know. 

 

Would that mean that the victims are chosen based on the fact that they won't be believed if they did speak up due to economic standing, or perceived reputation? Or do they seek out people who are already victims of physical or mental abuse at home? 

 

4 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

 We're not talking about one-off victims of an isolated incident who can flee or fight back if that's even possible under the circumstances

I will admit that I was viewing this issue with the Blackhawks as an NHL player who was approached by a coach out of the blue. That assumption is mine. 

4 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

- we're talking about a predator with predatory behavior where they groom/stalk a carefully selected person who they know has no options and won't pose any threat back to them whatsoever.

That makes sense. I would think that randomly approaching a larger human being and attempting to sexually assault them is a surefire way of getting some free dental surgery. 

4 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

These people had no choice and it is through sheer will and emotional perseverance that they manage to tell someone what happened.  They are survivors and hero's who don't need to be told they had 'choices'. 

Fair enough. I appreciate your words here, Fanuck. I should clarify that the only thing I'd want to tell a survivor of sexual abuse is that I have their back and believe them.

[flat land fish]

It’s a strange story for sure, well documented the video coach is a creep. Trying to put myself in the shoes of the abused and can’t imagine allowing another dude to blow me no matter the circumstances.  Also can’t imagine the pressure if you are a fringe nhl player trying to stay on the roster fighting for your dream career.  Good on the player for coming forward to keep others safe.

[BarnBurner]

31 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

 

He didn't beat up the perpetrator and kept silent for years. Why? It was embarrassing and the person who committed the act had power over his future.

Sure, but it was that person's choice. If you don't stand up for yourself, who's going to? 

[Fanuck]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

When you say that the victims don't have choices, what do you mean? Honestly wanting to know. Predators don't pick Pat Kane who can end your career with one word to management - they pick fringe players with a dream they haven't reached and little else to turn to and no voice.  Perhaps they came from a troubled home, or have existing mental health issues already or substance abuse issues and many avenues of success in their lives are already lost?  In other words, they'll pick someone they feel nobody will believe and who has everything to lose and little to gain (except intrinsically) by 'outing' the perpetrator.  Someone who they know won't have other options and could say eff you, I'm going to report you and my life will be just fine after doing so.  Predators will identify those people who they perceive as weaker with less clout who they hold a considerable amount of power over.  

 

Would that mean that the victims are chosen based on the fact that they won't be believed if they did speak up due to economic standing, or perceived reputation? Or do they seek out people who are already victims of physical or mental abuse at home? Perhaps both.  When you read the literature (research and first hand accounts) of prolonged predatory sexual behavior there are shocking similarities amongst the victims - a common thread is the perpetrator holding power over something the victim values above all else.  But of course, this isn't the only scenario under which this crime occurs.   

 

I will admit that I was viewing this issue with the Blackhawks as an NHL player who was approached by a coach out of the blue. That assumption is mine. 

That makes sense. I would think that randomly approaching a larger human being and attempting to sexually assault them is a surefire way of getting some free dental surgery. Agreed, and even one-off accounts of sexual abuse typically don't describe a situation where a physically weaker attacker targeted a larger, stronger victim - as you describe, that would be a poor choice.  

Fair enough. I appreciate your words here, Fanuck. I should clarify that the only thing I'd want to tell a survivor of sexual abuse is that I have their back and believe them. I know you would be there for someone in need Phillip - my limited interactions with you here support that you are a decent human with good intentions.  All of us, should understand better, the mind-set of someone who was the target of an egregious act(s) - what we as bystanders don't often see is that they have little to no choice in any of it - their attacker has made sure of that, so what we see as expected, normal behavior from a victim isn't what is going to happen sometimes (like fighting back or reporting the crime), and when it doesn't we need to understand that.

 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

 

Once again, very much appreciated, Fanuck. 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

instead of having actual discourse and discussion,

So rather than repeat your question, you choose not to have a discussion, yet try to lay the blame solely on me?

 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, gurn said:

So rather than repeat your question, you choose not to have a discussion, yet try to lay the blame solely on me?

 

You chose not to address it the first time, so it's not worth the time to repeat the question. One can always look back to previous posts on their own volition.