Blackhawks player from 2010 championship team suing team for sexual assault by coach

[SirCosmoDuffGordon]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

No kidding? This is a public forum we all have different opinions. I for one am going with the NHLPA (these guys represent the players they aren't going to let NHL coaches just blindly abuse players), and The Physician/counselor and not the guy who came forward after he sees someone arrested hoping for a payday. If we see text messages that show misconduct I will reconsider my position. 

[BPA]

3 hours ago, SirCosmoDuffGordon said:

No kidding? This is a public forum we all have different opinions. I for one am going with the NHLPA (these guys represent the players they aren't going to let NHL coaches just blindly abuse players), and The Physician/counselor and not the guy who came forward after he sees someone arrested hoping for a payday. If we see text messages that show misconduct I will reconsider my position. 

So was that your position when Theo Fleury came out and spoke (years later) about when he was also abused by coach Graham James?  Sheldon Kennedy was the first to speak out about it. 

 

If Graham didn't acknowledged his abuse to Theo, I'm guessing your position would have been that Theo also looking for a payday?

[SirCosmoDuffGordon]

38 minutes ago, BPA said:

So was that your position when Theo Fleury came out and spoke (years later) about when he was also abused by coach Graham James?  Sheldon Kennedy was the first to speak out about it. 

 

If Graham didn't acknowledged his abuse to Theo, I'm guessing your position would have been that Theo also looking for a payday?

This went to the NHLPA, a counselor and the Blackhawks all of whom never saw any wrong doing and then suddenly when there is a conviction someone comes forward and starts suing? Yea okay, believe whatever you want but from the facts that are available right now this looks like a money grab. 

 

When did Fleury go to the NHLPA, a counselor and an organization? Also, when I met Theo Fleury, about 10 years ago, he was trying to sell me on a forex get rich quick scheme that was obviously a scam. I wouldn't be surprised if Fleury coming out was due to needing money or seeing it as way to make money off a book.

 

edit: I'll add that counselor denies even hearing of anything like this. So really until there is more evidence there really is no reason to believe this is anything more than a money grab.

Edited May 13, 2021 by SirCosmoDuffGordon

[AV.]

This sport is full of such trash individuals.  There's a massive cultural problem with this game and it's rooted from racism, sexism, classism, abuse, etc and the most disheartening thing is the people in power refuse to address it beyond taking any performative and PR actions that temporarily patch the holes.  That's all I'll say.  Just disgusting stuff.

 

A sidenote:  As much as we might be curious who the player might be, it's in really poor taste to publicly speculate about the victim's identity.  Let's take the story as it is and respect the privacy of the victim.  They chose to de-identify themselves for a reason.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

1 minute ago, Alain Vigneault said:

This sport is full of such trash individuals.  There's a massive cultural problem with this game and it's rooted from racism, sexism, classism, abuse, etc and the most disheartening thing is the people in power refuse to address it beyond taking any performative and PR actions that temporarily patch the holes.  That's all I'll say.  Just disgusting stuff.

 

A sidenote:  As much as we might be curious who the player might be, it's in really poor taste to publicly speculate about the victim's identity.  Let's take the story as it is and respect the privacy of the victim.  They chose to de-identify themselves for a reason.

Imho, and I know this is not going to be a popular view here, but the level at which we hold hockey in our lives is also part of the problem. It's big business because we are willing to put it at such a high level in our lives - our moods swing so much based on how our teams perform. That's why there's so much vitriol in the forums. In many ways, sports is like a cult. Take a look at how people look at the players who are able to put up a lot of points and the coaches who get their teams to keep winning. Go to minor hockey and see how kids view their coaches (they often treat their coaches better than they treat their teachers or parents). Theo Fleury said that he couldn't report Graham because he came from a poor family and viewed Graham as a necessary part of him getting out of poverty and achieving his dreams. At BWC, one of the player's Moms was caught sleeping with the coach in order to get her son more playing time. The amount of money it takes to train the kids to get to a decent level (power skating, shooting, checking, trips to other cities, etc.) as well as for the equipment ($1000 dollar skates and $300 sticks for kids) is very high let alone trying to get your kids to a pro level (you're looking at at least $50K per year).

[AV.]

35 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Imho, and I know this is not going to be a popular view here, but the level at which we hold hockey in our lives is also part of the problem. It's big business because we are willing to put it at such a high level in our lives - our moods swing so much based on how our teams perform. That's why there's so much vitriol in the forums. In many ways, sports is like a cult. Take a look at how people look at the players who are able to put up a lot of points and the coaches who get their teams to keep winning. Go to minor hockey and see how kids view their coaches (they often treat their coaches better than they treat their teachers or parents). Theo Fleury said that he couldn't report Graham because he came from a poor family and viewed Graham as a necessary part of him getting out of poverty and achieving his dreams. At BWC, one of the player's Moms was caught sleeping with the coach in order to get her son more playing time. The amount of money it takes to train the kids to get to a decent level (power skating, shooting, checking, trips to other cities, etc.) as well as for the equipment ($1000 dollar skates and $300 sticks for kids) is very high let alone trying to get your kids to a pro level (you're looking at at least $50K per year).

This is stated fairly well.

 

From normalized instances (i.e answering "The Code" on the ice) to these egregious, often systemic, instances (i.e tolerating abuse, having experiences be invalidated to protect those at the top), it's very easy to see a cult-like structure governing this game.

 

And that's precisely why it disgusts me.  The NHL goes on and on about their alleged commitment to allyship, how "hockey is for everyone", and yet, they enable this stuff to happen.  If the highest level of hockey players are invalidated and dismissed like the one in this case, what message does it send to everybody else in this pyramid?  I don't mean to slippery slope but it really presents a scary reality for this sport and really dismantles any belief that this sport could ever truly be for anybody, beyond those who possess the power to make meaningful decisions.

[Patel Bure]

On 5/12/2021 at 8:34 PM, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

I hate to admit this, but the Chelsea Dagger theme started playing in my head as I read this article and imagined what may been going on behind the scenes.  
 

 

[Fanuck]

Did things just get worse for the Hawks?

 

https://www.tsn.ca/chicago-blackhawks-alleged-sex-abuse-of-players-police-1.1656229

 

 

[Gurn]

21 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Did things just get worse for the Hawks?

 

https://www.tsn.ca/chicago-blackhawks-alleged-sex-abuse-of-players-police-1.1656229

 

 

This bit from the story kind of got me.

"Loggans said she plans to call the witness to testify about the Blackhawks’ alleged cover up of the abuse and said she may ask a judge for that testimony to happen behind closed doors if the case goes to trial."

 

I thought "cover ups" involved more than only a failure to report.

 

That said, tragic how all these years after Graham James unspeakable crimes; this kind of thing can still go on anywhere; let alone a proffessional multi billion dollar enterprise.

[sassbs]

I confused.   We are talking about grown fit men who can handle themselves in a fight. How could they be harassed by a guy a few years older than him?

it’s not like peewee hockey where a kid would be scAred.

 

excuse the ignorance but How could this happen at this level? 

[Fanuck]

2 minutes ago, sassbs said:

I confused.   We are talking about grown fit men who can handle themselves in a fight. How could they be harassed by a guy a few years older than him?

it’s not like peewee hockey where a kid would be scAred.

 

excuse the ignorance but How could this happen at this level? 

These people (Coaches/managers/assistants/ect...) hold a TREMENDOUS amount of power over the players - power is much more than the ability to physically fight someone. 

 

Power, in the wrong hands, can and often is abused.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, sassbs said:

I confused.   We are talking about grown fit men who can handle themselves in a fight. How could they be harassed by a guy a few years older than him?

it’s not like peewee hockey where a kid would be scAred.

 

excuse the ignorance but How could this happen at this level? 

That's a good question. Why would a grown man allow another grown man to sexually assault him? I'm assuming that most NHL players would react pretty severely (and rightfully so) if a coach came up to them and tried to get touchy feely. Cracking a jaw would solve that real quick. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

These people (Coaches/managers/assistants/ect...) hold a TREMENDOUS amount of power over the players - power is much more than the ability to physically fight someone. 

 

Power, in the wrong hands, can and often is abused.

How so? If a player is in the change room and the coach approaches him trying to cop a feel, that player has both a moral and legal right to defend themselves. I can't see how a coach would be able to coerce a player at the NHL level. 

[Gurn]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How so? If a player is in the change room and the coach approaches him trying to cop a feel, that player has both a moral and legal right to defend themselves. I can't see how a coach would be able to coerce a player at the NHL level. 

If a video coach only shows how bad you played, you can end up traded or released.

Potentially millions of dollars at stake.

Power, which coaches have, can corrupt.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

If a video coach only shows how bad you played, you can end up traded or released.

Potentially millions of dollars at stake.

Power, which coaches have, can corrupt.

Ok. Still, if the pervert approaches the player, that player can physically repel the pervert and then subsequently inform his teammates of the issue. 

[Gurn]

14 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Ok. Still, if the pervert approaches the player, that player can physically repel the pervert and then subsequently inform his teammates of the issue. 

Yes, that is one of the options a person can do.

However I thought we had advanced beyond blaming the victim for not acting as we think, we, would.

[Boest-er]

12 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How so? If a player is in the change room and the coach approaches him trying to cop a feel, that player has both a moral and legal right to defend themselves. I can't see how a coach would be able to coerce a player at the NHL level. 

The player could lose their job. And look at the way you are right now. If it came out that a player had hit or "assaulted" a coach. That player is instantly gone and the video coach can continue doing his job while the public defends him. So in every scenario the player loses everything. Because no one would believe him, and if you say well they would conduct an investigation, maybe they find something different but they didnt in theres. So now the player has one option left. Go public with the info. It would be hard for someone and anyone with a more timid personality to put their name and face out there. And for what? No team wants that excess drama(unless they are a superstar player, which could be argued that the coach only did this to lower level players so they wouldnt be able to stand up for themselves) so they'll bury the kid anyways. Yay! you put away someone bad but now you also have to suffer additional consequences for going public by not getting an NHL job and having your name pasted everywhere, and the added mental stress. 

 

This is however my opinion and I am open to hearing yours in further detail. 

[Fanuck]

22 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That's a good question. Why would a grown man allow another grown man to sexually assault him? I'm assuming that most NHL players would react pretty severely (and rightfully so) if a coach came up to them and tried to get touchy feely. Cracking a jaw would solve that real quick. 

 

19 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How so? If a player is in the change room and the coach approaches him trying to cop a feel, that player has both a moral and legal right to defend themselves. I can't see how a coach would be able to coerce a player at the NHL level. 

 

14 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Ok. Still, if the pervert approaches the player, that player can physically repel the pervert and then subsequently inform his teammates of the issue. 

PhillipB, please don't take this the wrong way - it's not meant as an insult or a put-down, but you need to get informed as to how sexual abuse can occur and I'm not the person to inform you nor do I believe this is the right forum to do so - others may disagree.  I will leave you with this small piece of advice however:

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Boest-er said:

The player could lose their job. And look at the way you are right now. If it came out that a player had hit or "assaulted" a coach. That player is instantly gone and the video coach can continue doing his job while the public defends him. So in every scenario the player loses everything. Because no one would believe him, and if you say well they would conduct an investigation, maybe they find something different but they didnt in theres. So now the player has one option left. Go public with the info. It would be hard for someone and anyone with a more timid personality to put their name and face out there. And for what? No team wants that excess drama(unless they are a superstar player, which could be argued that the coach only did this to lower level players so they wouldnt be able to stand up for themselves) so they'll bury the kid anyways. Yay! you put away someone bad but now you also have to suffer additional consequences for going public by not getting an NHL job and having your name pasted everywhere, and the added mental stress. 

 

This is however my opinion and I am open to hearing yours in further detail. 

If that is the case, that's insane. A player should be allowed to defend themselves against any unwarranted attention from anyone at anytime. The situation should be handled properly by speaking to both parties involved, to determine why the incident happened, especially if it happened in a locker room. 

 

Anyone with half a brain would question everyone, and not automatically vilify the player. That's my two cents, at least. 

 

I guess the league still has some archaic mentalities that refuse to allow people to do a proper investigation. 

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

Yes, that is one of the options a person can do.

However I thought we had advanced beyond blaming the victim for not acting as we think, we, would.

It should be the only option. You touch me inappropriately, I'll knock you the (expletive deleted) out. 

 

How am I blaming the victim here?