Honest Conversation With Those Who Still Support Management

[kanucks25]

23 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

How was it "inevitable" when a lot of our strengths and weaknesses are completely different than what it was back then?

 

23 hours ago, JM_ said:

I just think its funny that "he predicted" it all. Sure he did. 

I think the thing here is that y'all are getting caught up in the specifics.

 

I or anyone else never predicted that in the Fall of 2021 Pettersson was going to fall off a cliff, or that we'd have an alleged locker room rift, or X problem or Y issue.

 

What the detractors of this management team have been saying all along is that the bottom of this thing is eventually going to fall out one or another because it's simply not being built right. Ironically, the foundation is faulty.

 

The draft picks traded away, the lack of draft picks accumulated to take advantage of several high draft spots, never taking on cap dumps to acquire extra assets, constantly targeting D-men with "tools" instead of ones that can actual play hockey, tying up massive chunks of long-term cap in replaceable and/or depth players completely neutering flexibility and options.

 

The list goes on and on. Remember everyone used to say "death by a thousand cuts"? Well we've almost bled out now: shallow prospect pool, draft pick deficit, and no winning to show for it other than one flash in the pan.

 

Every time one of these warnings was brought up, apologists would try to sweep it under the rug with one lousy excuse or another (But Gillis! or Luongo recapture! or COVID! or Schedule!). Whether it was due to optimism or ignorance or perhaps a mix of both, people had their heads in the sand and now there's shock and awe in the market despite the end result (where we are now) being completely predictable.

 

I'm not surprised. Just disappointed. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by kanucks25

[Patel Bure]

39 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The Canucks for years have been easy games for other teams. They beat the Avs who had their backup goalie in btw.

#Trolling

 

1 hour ago, Tom Sestito said:

I don’t think everything about 19/20 was a fluke. I just don’t understand why people love to prop up a team that finished 17th/31 teams. Like that’s the peak of this era? 9 seasons of misery and the best team was one that faced Jordan “.88 save percentage” Binnington in round 1?

 

I think that 19/20 team had a bunch of decent players, but they were still a top four D and complete third line away from being a truly good team. 

 

Green and Benning thought this team was the best they’ve ever had, and it’s funny because analytically, they’ve performed at similar levels 5 on 5 to what the 19-20 team did. Just terrible special teams.

 

I think this team is better than what they’ve shown. They’ve had some bad luck, bad performances, bad team morale that have contributed to a bad start. But, that’s the problem when you go all in on giving big contracts and trading futures for a team whose “likely best case scenario” was to finish around 15th in the league (3rd in div or WC spot). There is no margin for error.

 

Going back to your point about January 2020, you are right. I remember seeing that they had an insane run scoring first in games in that stretch, but they weren’t really going into these “lets let marky get shelled here” styles until the third. Would have to do some more digging on shot rates game by game during that stretch.

What I don’t understand about HF and certain media members and posters on here, is why they are obsessed with “the 8 year rebuild” Schtick and how these guys seemingly imply that we are the exception rather than the norm.  First off, 8 years is factually incorrect.

 

2013:  1st round

2014: DNQ

2015: 1st round

2016:  DNQ (1st year of rebuild)

2017: DNQ

2018: DNQ

2019: DNQ 

2020: 2nd round

2021: DNQ

 

Second - take a look at all of the current top teams in the NHL right now be it Florida, NYI, Carolina, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Colorado, Calgary, Tampa Bay, etc, etc.

 

*All* of these teams struggled mightily for years on end before becoming good.  Even a team like Boston, who unlike the above, consistently qualified for the 1st round of the playoffs during their dark days, never actually won a playoff round.  Calgary struggled, made the 2nd round in 2015, and then struggled again.  Oilers struggled since 2006, made the 2nd round in 2017, and then struggled again.  Or how about the Colorado Avalanche who struggled for the most part since 2008, and ended up a lottery team in 2017? (drafting Cale Makar).

 

So again I ask, how are we any different?

 

I think where a lot of the confusion comes in, is the fact that Benning spent to the cap between 2015-2020 and so mediocre minded fans equated this to Benning “trying to go for it” rather than realizing that Benning was paying a premium for veteran leadership so that 

 

A) The kids and prospects in our line up would not be rushed into roles that they were not ready for.  All internal promotions would be merit based.
 

B-) The vets would hold the kids accountable both on and off the ice even if these vets themselves couldn’t quite perform like they once did.

 

The Canucks were rebuilding between 2015-2020 and so it’s not like they would have been able to sign high ticket free agents during that time (ie Stamkos).   The other problem with these mediocre minded fans is that they assume that signing PTO’s and cheap vets are like shooting fish instead barrel when it’s anything but.  PTO’s won’t just sign with any team.  PTO’s will only sign with a team if the role that’s being asked of them will make sense for both the player and organization (ie Thomas Vanek).

 

As far as post bubble goes, I don’t see what Benning could have done differently other than 

 

1) Moving on from Green when Gerard Gallant became available 

 

2) Moving on from Virtanen and Jordie Benn while finding a way to commit to Toffoli.  
 

How is Benning’s fault that Travis Green completely misused Nate Schmidt?   People on here criticize Benning for bringing in Braden Holtby, but in theory, he was exactly what this team needed (1A goalie) since the Canucks needed to make sure that they weren’t throwing Demko to the wolves right away (ie properly acclimate to the #1 role).

 

Yes - Benning double downed in the summer and gave away his 1st in order to move bad contracts, but he also got two solid pieces in Garland and OEL (a player that has been great for us even though everyone on HF felt that he’d be a train wreck).  Benning did his core a justice by using a 1st to move bad contracts because this core needed to start competing now instead of relieving the 2020-2021 season.

 

I know the Canucks are in shambles right now but I fail to see how this is any of Benning’s fault (other than being too loyal to Green).  How can Pettersson and Boeser completely falling off a Cliff be Benning’s fault? (Unless Benning was aware of some weird lockerroom dynamics that started to develop post bubble).

[Johnny Torts]

I supported management 

 

Yeah &^@# management. 

[combover]

9 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

#Trolling

 

What I don’t understand about HF and certain media members and posters on here, is why they are obsessed with “the 8 year rebuild” Schtick and how these guys seemingly imply that we are the exception rather than the norm.  First off, 8 years is factually incorrect.

 

2013:  1st round

2014: DNQ

2015: 1st round

2016:  DNQ (1st year of rebuild)

2017: DNQ

2018: DNQ

2019: DNQ 

2020: 2nd round

2021: DNQ

 

Second - take a look at all of the current top teams in the NHL right now be it Florida, NYI, Carolina, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Colorado, Calgary, Tampa Bay, etc, etc.

 

*All* of these teams struggled mightily for years on end before becoming good.  Even a team like Boston, who unlike the above, consistently qualified for the 1st round of the playoffs during their dark days, never actually won a playoff round.  Calgary struggled, made the 2nd round in 2015, and then struggled again.  Oilers struggled since 2006, made the 2nd round in 2017, and then struggled again.  Or how about the Colorado Avalanche who struggled for the most part since 2008, and ended up a lottery team in 2017? (drafting Cale Makar).

 

So again I ask, how are we any different?

 

I think where a lot of the confusion comes in, is the fact that Benning spent to the cap between 2015-2020 and so mediocre minded fans equated this to Benning “trying to go for it” rather than realizing that Benning was paying a premium for veteran leadership so that 

 

A) The kids and prospects in our line up would not be rushed into roles that they were not ready for.  All internal promotions would be merit based.
 

B-) The vets would hold the kids accountable both on and off the ice even if these vets themselves couldn’t quite perform like they once did.

 

The Canucks were rebuilding between 2015-2020 and so it’s not like they would have been able to sign high ticket free agents during that time (ie Stamkos).   The other problem with these mediocre minded fans is that they assume that signing PTO’s and cheap vets are like shooting fish instead barrel when it’s anything but.  PTO’s won’t just sign with any team.  PTO’s will only sign with a team if the role that’s being asked of them will make sense for both the player and organization (ie Thomas Vanek).

 

As far as post bubble goes, I don’t see what Benning could have done differently other than 

 

1) Moving on from Green when Gerard Gallant became available 

 

2) Moving on from Virtanen and Jordie Benn while finding a way to commit to Toffoli.  
 

How is Benning’s fault that Travis Green completely misused Nate Schmidt?   People on here criticize Benning for bringing in Braden Holtby, but in theory, he was exactly what this team needed (1A goalie) since the Canucks needed to make sure that they weren’t throwing Demko to the wolves right away (ie properly acclimate to the #1 role).

 

Yes - Benning double downed in the summer and gave away his 1st in order to move bad contracts, but he also got two solid pieces in Garland and OEL (a player that has been great for us even though everyone on HF felt that he’d be a train wreck).  Benning did his core a justice by using a 1st to move bad contracts because this core needed to start competing now instead of relieving the 2020-2021 season.

 

I know the Canucks are in shambles right now but I fail to see how this is any of Benning’s fault (other than being too loyal to Green).  How can Pettersson and Boeser completely falling off a Cliff be Benning’s fault? (Unless Benning was aware of some weird lockerroom dynamics that started to develop post bubble).

He build this team

he hired the coaches 

he is 100% at fault

he failed to deliver on anything he’s said over the past 8 years. 

Our depth down the middle is pathetic 

our depth at any position is pathetic

or farm and prospects nhl ready is none Existent

8 years of being a bottom feeder while spending to the limit and this is what we have 

 

He’s traded away more picks than any gm in franchise history

he let countless ufas walk for free

we waived good young players in favour of ahl turds 

not his fault. He could literally crash his car into a parked car in an otherwise empty parking lot and some on here would defend him. 

 

what’s the love affair with a guys that’s been one of the worst gms and miserable failure this team has see. Is what I don’t understand. 

his mission was mediocrity and he can’t even achieve that. Lol 

 

not his fault no gm gets 8 years of being as bad at his job as this guy and gets a free pass.

man a McDonalds worker wouldnt be allowed to make as many mistakes as JB and not get fired.  

#FIRETHEIDIOTBENNING

[Mike Vanderhoek]

19 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I know the Canucks are in shambles right now but I fail to see how this is any of Benning’s fault (other than being too loyal to Green).  How can Pettersson and Boeser completely falling off a Cliff be Benning’s fault? (Unless Benning was aware of some weird lockeroom dynamics that started to develop post bubble).

The "meeting" the other week with ownership was where Benning put the final nail in his own coffin by marrying himself to Green instead of making a change.

 

From ownership down there have been failures, I have zero issue with ownership having a seat at the table and making important decisions, this is where a President or more "advisors" like the Sedin's would have come in handier earlier on.

 

Benning has created this roster, has done well in drafting, 50/50 on trades might be a slight optimistic. My concern is there has been no thinking outside the box in terms of asset management, I was personally quite disappointed no real attempts were made to weaponize cap when the Canucks had it in droves. I liked the idea of reclamation projects like Baertschi, even at the time moving on Forsling to bring in a further developed Clendening but those were mistakes to say the least.

 

I was on board with many of the signings as the major criticisms came out of context re: Louie well supply and demand on that one and the depth guys like Beagle, Roussel I thought were smart moves but again, didn't work out.

 

But in all honestly, I was a fan of Green and what he had done with the players he had was impressive to the point of the bubble, the team made some quality adds and then the season was over, Free Agency hit and again to be honest I think there is residual from the mass exodus on Free Agency with this group. I feel it was a major fail and something that gets me quite bothered when bringing it up again. The team WAS on the upswing and WAS playing well, playing their system well. I think and it has been evidenced since that many of the remaining core was well rocked to their core over that off season. It has just not been the same since.

 

We all felt the team would push for Playoffs this season, the OEL trade was actually exactly what the fans had been screaming for, then again once it happened the team got ripped quite a bit over one contract of a top tier defenseman, the old " you can never win sometimes ".

 

But how this team has fallen, nobody could have foreseen, but seeing the coaching mistakes and exhausting of line juggling while nothing is done from above is infuriating as a fan, there was so much potential. Benning has lost my confidence, the coach as much as I liked him he doesn't have it, and unless the team gets serious and brings in a President as well as experienced hockey people to manage and coach then it will be a tear down and try again. There is hope with a very good core and the right experienced NHL people brought in this could be turned around in another season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iceman64]

On 5/16/2021 at 1:54 PM, JohnTavares said:

I want to have a genuine and honest conversation with those who still support current management. I recognize there has been a major shift here on this forum with regards to supporting Jim Benning and co. After running off the highs of taking Vegas to Game 7, the majority of fans on this forum still heavily supported Jim and co. Jim Benning slander was usually downvoted to oblivion and met with confrontation and disgust up until the 2020 offseason. Several people were downvoted or confronted for suggesting that the Canucks could a step back with limited cap space and several key players needing new contracts.

 

The turning point for myself was when Jim traded Bonino for Sutter: gave up arguably the better player on a cheaper contract, lost value in the draft pick exchange, proceeded to call Sutter a "foundational" player, signed him to a major extension without Sutter ever playing a single game for us. This was 6 years ago in 2015. This series of transactions raised major red flags for me and the subsequent moves after really sealed the deal - Jim Benning is the not the right guy for the job.

After an abysmal year from the Canucks, a terrible cap sheet, and an average/below-average prospect pool to look forward to, many have shifted their opinions and want to clean house. For those who still support management, can I ask why?

 

On a results basis: The Canucks have one of the worst records in the league since Benning took over, while spending to the cap every year. The Canucks have had one playoff round win in seven years. The Canucks are about to finish as a bottom tier team despite having our "core" pieces in place. Even BEFORE the Covid outbreak, the Canucks were unlikely to make the playoffs. Yes, Petterson has missed a lot of games, but every team has injuries. If you want to build a winning team, you need depth, depth and more depth. For those who look to Covid and the Petterson injury as excuses, why? We were bad before Covid and if your team relies on ONE guy to keep your season afloat, then your team is not very good to begin with.

 

On a process basis: If results were poor, but the process was defined and executed, I wouldn't even be mad. Jim and co have proven time and time again, that their really is no clear direction. Seven years in and there has never been consistent messaging or moves that aligned. This management truly operates on a day-to-day basis. How can a management team running a near billion dollar business have no consistent plan or long-term outlook? Are we re-building? Are we trying to be competitive? Are we re-tooling? Why give up assets to acquire Toffoli and then not offer a contract? Why give another aging forward (who's having a bad season) a 3 year extension with a flat cap? If we are trying to compete, why did we not ship out Virtanen in the offseason and use that money to keep a Tanev or a Toffoli? Virtanen was abysmal in the playoffs and barely played - it was clear that the fit wasn't there anymore.

 

On a relationship management basis: Jim and management have proven time and time again, that they do not work well with others and have the thinnest front office in the league. They have outed several talented individuals in the organization (Brackett, Linden, Gillman etc.). It was recently reported that Jim and Weisbroad pushed back on Courtnall being in an advisory role. It's clear that Jim and co do not want voices in the room and clearly want yes-men supporting their operation. It's now looking like Ian Clark won't even be re-signed, one of the most important coaches will not be retained this year - another talented member of the organization looking to be on the way out. Jim has and co have not been able to maintain a good relationship with the fans because of the constant inconsistent messaging and the amateur quotes like "day-to-day" and "run out of time".

 

On a transactions basis: This has been beaten to death and there's really no need to go over every transaction. Jim has made some good moves, but his negative transactions FAR outweigh in substance and quantity than the positive transactions. Most Jim supporters resort to his drafting ability as a get-out-of-jail card. Jim has been an above-average drafter for sure - he still missed big time on the Virtanen and Juolevi picks, setting this franchise back for years. So I can't really give Jim and A or an A+ in drafting. Despite his "above-average" drafting, his contracts and trades have mostly been below average to downright terrible.

 

Can I ask the management supporters, are you OK with Jim's "above-average" drafting ability to compensate all the other negatives he brings to the table? What's still giving you faith that Jim can still run this team successfully after 7 years of mostly failure? Are you willing to give Jim his 2 more years, for a 9 year plan? Most GMs never see 9 years or more unless they have delivered exceptional results - which Jim has definitely not done. Why not look to someone new for change? Why after 7 years, do you still want to run with this guy?

 

TLDR: I want to know why you still support the current management group. Why the patience? It's been 7 years now, why do we need to give him 2 more? We have a very large sample size to work with already. Why not seek someone new for a change?

 

lmfao!! we haven't had a sample size yet, we just got the team to where it's at after all the contracts from the MG era are officially gone last season so how the F can you call it a sample size, if JB came in and traded everyone as soon as he arrived you could say that but that was NOT THE CASE! listen to media much or do you come up with this on your own?

[iceman64]

47 minutes ago, combover said:

He build this team

he hired the coaches 

he is 100% at fault

he failed to deliver on anything he’s said over the past 8 years. 

Our depth down the middle is pathetic 

our depth at any position is pathetic

or farm and prospects nhl ready is none Existent

8 years of being a bottom feeder while spending to the limit and this is what we have 

 

He’s traded away more picks than any gm in franchise history

he let countless ufas walk for free

we waived good young players in favour of ahl turds 

not his fault. He could literally crash his car into a parked car in an otherwise empty parking lot and some on here would defend him. 

 

what’s the love affair with a guys that’s been one of the worst gms and miserable failure this team has see. Is what I don’t understand. 

his mission was mediocrity and he can’t even achieve that. Lol 

 

not his fault no gm gets 8 years of being as bad at his job as this guy and gets a free pass.

man a McDonalds worker wouldnt be allowed to make as many mistakes as JB and not get fired.  

#FIRETHEIDIOTBENNING

Speaking of idiots.. look in the mirror or actually think through what your going to say before you say it MIGHT help,  JB just got a clean slate and the broken team is all gone AS OF LAST SEASON in case you missed it. 

[Patel Bure]

48 minutes ago, combover said:

He build this team

he hired the coaches 

he is 100% at fault

he failed to deliver on anything he’s said over the past 8 years. 

Our depth down the middle is pathetic 

our depth at any position is pathetic

or farm and prospects nhl ready is none Existent

8 years of being a bottom feeder while spending to the limit and this is what we have 

 

He’s traded away more picks than any gm in franchise history

he let countless ufas walk for free

we waived good young players in favour of ahl turds 

not his fault. He could literally crash his car into a parked car in an otherwise empty parking lot and some on here would defend him. 

 

what’s the love affair with a guys that’s been one of the worst gms and miserable failure this team has see. Is what I don’t understand. 

his mission was mediocrity and he can’t even achieve that. Lol 

 

not his fault no gm gets 8 years of being as bad at his job as this guy and gets a free pass.

man a McDonalds worker wouldnt be allowed to make as many mistakes as JB and not get fired.  

#FIRETHEIDIOTBENNING

Coaching:   I will have to agree with you here that Benning should have transitioned from Green to Gallant when Gerard Gallant was let go by the VGK.  Guys like Green and WD are ok during a rebuild, since elite coaches typically don't join rebuilding teams (to which rebuilding teams often rely on AHL coaches), but yes - Benning should have transitioned to Gallant, or at least replace Green with Claude Julien this past off season.

 

His moves:  We will have to agree to disagree on this.  From 2015-2020, yes, Benning did spend to the cap, but he spent this money on veteran leadership which allowed our young players to not be rushed into roles that they were too green for (i.e. merit based promotions), while setting a team culture on and off the ice.  Our team chemistry and cohesiveness was one of the reasons why we had success in the bubble.  The only moves which made no sense to me were the Ryan Spooner and Sam Gagner trades/signings.  All of the other moves, I can justify (I won't right now because it will take too much time). 

 

3) Failed to deliver:  You mean like the 2nd round appearance in 2020?    

 

4) Depth down the middle:   How is it Benning's fault that Pettersson has mysteriously fallen off a cliff?  (unless there is/was some locker room issues that we aren't aware of, in which case, Benning could be blamed here).   Most hockey pundits would have agreed that Pettersson-Horvat as a 1-2 combo at center should have been solid.  Even moreso if you choose to deploy JT Miller there.  Even with Pettersson-Horvat-Dickinson as your 3 centres, most would have agreed that it would have been decent since most NHL pundits agreed that Dickinson would have been an upgrade over Sutter, Beagle, and Roussel, and that Dickinson had at least some decent offensive ability to utilize his teammates (unlike Sutter or Beagle).   

 

5) Traded picks:   We've lost picks but we've also managed to successfully bring up at least one young player into the line-up each and every year.  Current players = Horvat, Demko, Pettersson, Hoglander, Hughes, Podkolzin, and Boeser.  Markstrom, like Horvat, was developed by the Benning regime.  Even the dearly departed such as Virtanen, Hutton, Tryamkin, Stecher, and Gaudette were developed by the Benning regime to moderate degrees of success.   We also had a year of McCann.  Jack Rathbone is pretty much on the team as well.   So maybe it's not so much about 'bled picks,' but rather, which guys actually make the NHL and stick with the big club?   

 

6) Which good young players were waived and ended up killing it on different teams?  Gadjovich is farting around in San Jose while Gaudette got put on waivers today?  Has MacEwen done anything in Philly?  Frankie Corrado?   Kudos to Gustav Forsling, Jarred McCann, and Jonathan Dahlen for turning their careers around I guess.

 

7) Post bubble:  Even post bubble, I don't understand what Benning could have done differently other than finding a way to keep Toffoli and getting rid of Green.  From an analytics perspective, guys like Nate Schmidt and Jason Dickinson were terrific ads.  Other than being too loyal to Green, how is it Benning's fault that Green didn't/doesn't know how to properly utilize these guys.  OEL is having a great season but he fits into this category as well (i.e. lack of offense).  We can point fingers at bringing in Holtby, but Holtby (1A goalie) is exactly what we needed to help insulate an aspiring #1 goalie in Demko.   

 

 

I agree that massive changes need to be made now, but I don't see how Benning could have or should have done most things differently.  How in the world is it his fault that Pettersson and Boeser went completely AWOL this season?

[Patel Bure]

56 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

The "meeting" the other week with ownership was where Benning put the final nail in his own coffin by marrying himself to Green instead of making a change.

 

From ownership down there have been failures, I have zero issue with ownership having a seat at the table and making important decisions, this is where a President or more "advisors" like the Sedin's would have come in handier earlier on.

 

Benning has created this roster, has done well in drafting, 50/50 on trades might be a slight optimistic. My concern is there has been no thinking outside the box in terms of asset management, I was personally quite disappointed no real attempts were made to weaponize cap when the Canucks had it in droves. I liked the idea of reclamation projects like Baertschi, even at the time moving on Forsling to bring in a further developed Clendening but those were mistakes to say the least.

 

I was on board with many of the signings as the major criticisms came out of context re: Louie well supply and demand on that one and the depth guys like Beagle, Roussel I thought were smart moves but again, didn't work out.

 

But in all honestly, I was a fan of Green and what he had done with the players he had was impressive to the point of the bubble, the team made some quality adds and then the season was over, Free Agency hit and again to be honest I think there is residual from the mass exodus on Free Agency with this group. I feel it was a major fail and something that gets me quite bothered when bringing it up again. The team WAS on the upswing and WAS playing well, playing their system well. I think and it has been evidenced since that many of the remaining core was well rocked to their core over that off season. It has just not been the same since.

 

We all felt the team would push for Playoffs this season, the OEL trade was actually exactly what the fans had been screaming for, then again once it happened the team got ripped quite a bit over one contract of a top tier defenseman, the old " you can never win sometimes ".

 

But how this team has fallen, nobody could have foreseen, but seeing the coaching mistakes and exhausting of line juggling while nothing is done from above is infuriating as a fan, there was so much potential. Benning has lost my confidence, the coach as much as I liked him he doesn't have it, and unless the team gets serious and brings in a President as well as experienced hockey people to manage and coach then it will be a tear down and try again. There is hope with a very good core and the right experienced NHL people brought in this could be turned around in another season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

For asset management, the 2020-2021 season was always going to be our 2007-08 season since moving those Beagle, Player Name, Roussel contracts with two years left was always going to be difficult.  In planning for the future of this team, I don't think management or anyone expected Pettersson and Hughes to become as good as they did so quickly and so these "transitional veteran leadership" contracts did become bad cap too quickly.   For all of our 'bad contracts' however, 2020-2021 was the only year where it became a hindrance for us but even with that in mind, a team with Nate Schmidt, Hamonic, Holtby, etc., shouldn't have been as bad as they were.........and I attribute this to Travis Green.

 

And yes - as much as I praise Benning on here, his loyalty to Green proved to be a dagger to this team.  

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

The "meeting" the other week with ownership was where Benning put the final nail in his own coffin by marrying himself to Green instead of making a change.

 

From ownership down there have been failures, I have zero issue with ownership having a seat at the table and making important decisions, this is where a President or more "advisors" like the Sedin's would have come in handier earlier on.

 

Benning has created this roster, has done well in drafting, 50/50 on trades might be a slight optimistic. My concern is there has been no thinking outside the box in terms of asset management, I was personally quite disappointed no real attempts were made to weaponize cap when the Canucks had it in droves. I liked the idea of reclamation projects like Baertschi, even at the time moving on Forsling to bring in a further developed Clendening but those were mistakes to say the least.

 

I was on board with many of the signings as the major criticisms came out of context re: Louie well supply and demand on that one and the depth guys like Beagle, Roussel I thought were smart moves but again, didn't work out.

 

But in all honestly, I was a fan of Green and what he had done with the players he had was impressive to the point of the bubble, the team made some quality adds and then the season was over, Free Agency hit and again to be honest I think there is residual from the mass exodus on Free Agency with this group. I feel it was a major fail and something that gets me quite bothered when bringing it up again. The team WAS on the upswing and WAS playing well, playing their system well. I think and it has been evidenced since that many of the remaining core was well rocked to their core over that off season. It has just not been the same since.

 

We all felt the team would push for Playoffs this season, the OEL trade was actually exactly what the fans had been screaming for, then again once it happened the team got ripped quite a bit over one contract of a top tier defenseman, the old " you can never win sometimes ".

 

But how this team has fallen, nobody could have foreseen, but seeing the coaching mistakes and exhausting of line juggling while nothing is done from above is infuriating as a fan, there was so much potential. Benning has lost my confidence, the coach as much as I liked him he doesn't have it, and unless the team gets serious and brings in a President as well as experienced hockey people to manage and coach then it will be a tear down and try again. There is hope with a very good core and the right experienced NHL people brought in this could be turned around in another season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good points; and instead of more roster tweaking: Aquaman should be re evaluating the leadership group (with the staff), on how they will handle the current situation. 

[spur1]

Just fire Green. JB is just fine. 

[iinatcc]

44 minutes ago, spur1 said:

Just fire Green. JB is just fine. 

No JB built the team and this team was never close to being a playoff team 

[Patel Bure]

3 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

No JB built the team and this team was never close to being a playoff team 

Agreed.  2015 and 2020 never actually happened.  

[combover]

2 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Speaking of idiots.. look in the mirror or actually think through what your going to say before you say it MIGHT help,  JB just got a clean slate and the broken team is all gone AS OF LAST SEASON in case you missed it. 

You should take your own advise. 

keep making excuses seems to be working out. 
IT WAS HIS BROKEN TEAM he’s the one that broke it. Clean slate lololololololol. 

I guess he gets “ clean slate” every year. oh he called do over. So it’s ok. 
Pathetic. 
8 seasons of do overs is enough 

#firebenning

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by combover

[iinatcc]

9 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Agreed.  2015 and 2020 never actually happened.  

2020 was the Covid year. Before the pause the Canucks were sinking in the standings if anything the stoppage actually saved their season 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

 

I think the thing here is that y'all are getting caught up in the specifics.

 

I or anyone else never predicted that in the Fall of 2021 Pettersson was going to fall off a cliff, or that we'd have an alleged locker room rift, or X problem or Y issue.

 

What the detractors of this management team have been saying all along is that the bottom of this thing is eventually going to fall out one or another because it's simply not being built right. Ironically, the foundation is faulty.

 

The draft picks traded away, the lack of draft picks accumulated to take advantage of several high draft spots, never taking on cap dumps to acquire extra assets, constantly targeting D-men with "tools" instead of ones that can actual play hockey, tying up massive chunks of long-term cap in replaceable and/or depth players completely neutering flexibility and options.

 

The list goes on and on. Remember everyone used to say "death by a thousand cuts"? Well we've almost bled out now: shallow draft pick pool, draft pick deficit, and no winning to show for it other than one flash in the pan.

 

Every time one of these warnings was brought up, apologists would try to sweep it under the rug with one lousy excuse or another (But Gillis! or Luongo recapture! or COVID! or Schedule!). Whether it was due to optimism or ignorance or perhaps a mix of both, people had their heads in the sand and now there's shock and awe in the market despite the end result (where we are now) being completely predictable.

 

I'm not surprised. Just disappointed. 

 

I guess what I see is if we had e.g., a healthy functioning Sutter we'd maybe be .500 due to his PK skills. What I don't like about Jim is he really didn't have a good plan B for 3C, and thats where this thing is really off the rails. I like Poolman's game but that money would have been better spent on a true 3C with Dickie's salary.

 

I think sometimes Jim jumps on a decent offer like a 3rd round pick for Dickie or Schmidt, but doesn't consider the fit enough. Its clear we need some better long term planning for the team, which is something neither Linden or Benning seem to bring.

 

 

 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

41 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

2020 was the Covid year. Before the pause the Canucks were sinking in the standings if anything the stoppage actually saved their season 

If my aunt had nuts, she’d be my uncle.  
 

None of us had any idea what would have happened if the season had continued.  
 

For example - last year when Pettersson got injured, would you or anyone have predicted that the Canucks would go 8-3-2 over their next 13 games?  No?  Exactly.  We don’t know what would have happened.  Interesting how the anti Benning crew never says, “if the Canucks Covid outbreak hadn’t happened last season, we might have caught up to the #4 seed given our 8-3-2 trend before the Covid outbreak.”
 

 In that 2020 year, the Canucks won 2 of their last 3 games over the NYI and Colorado (two 2nd round teams), and were playing a lot tighter.  Demko was starting to look like bubble Demko as well.  
 

Maybe we would have made the playoffs.........maybe not.  The bottom line however is that sometimes in life, you put yourself in a position to be lucky.  Given our .800-.900 play in January, we earned the right to qualify for the play-ins later on that Summer.  We beat the Wild to qualify for the playoffs, and then defeated the defending cup champs before falling to Vegas in the 2nd round.  
 

Was it luck?  Maybe?  Probably?  But who cares.  I didn’t see anyone complaining in 2006-2007 when we made a surprise 2nd round appearance so why make excuses for that 2019-2020 team?  

Edited November 26, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Patel Bure]

24 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

I guess what I see is if we had e.g., a healthy functioning Sutter we'd maybe be .500 due to his PK skills. What I don't like about Jim is he really didn't have a good plan B for 3C, and thats where this thing is really off the rails. I like Poolman's game but that money would have been better spent on a true 3C with Dickie's salary.

 

I think sometimes Jim jumps on a decent offer like a 3rd round pick for Dickie or Schmidt, but doesn't consider the fit enough. Its clear we need some better long term planning for the team, which is something neither Linden or Benning seem to bring.

 

 

 

 

 

In theory, Dickie and Schmidt should have fit with this team.  Good coaches almost always find a way to maximize player strengths into a line-up.  Look at how Gallant and Sutter maximized Gudbranson in Florida and Calgary for example.   
 

Schmidt needs to play the right side, and should have been given more opportunities to play with Hughes (to which Green should have designed a system in which that pairing would have minimized defensive lapses but failed to do so). 

[Patel Bure]

56 minutes ago, combover said:

You should take your own advise. 

keep making excuses seems to be working out. 
IT WAS HIS BROKEN TEAM he’s the one that broke it. Clean slate lololololololol. 

I guess he gets “ clean slate” every year. oh he called do over. So it’s ok. 
Pathetic. 
8 seasons of do overs is enough 

#firebenning

 

Where does this “8 seasons” crap come from, lol.  
 

1) All teams go through a rebuild.  Don’t believe me?  Look at all of the top teams in the NHL at current and have a gander at their histories.

 

2) We qualified for the playoffs in both 2015 and 2020.  
 

3) I do admit that Benning needs to be fired and I do admit that I don’t know what happened to this team post 2020 bubble.  

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

In theory, Dickie and Schmidt should have fit with this team.  Good coaches almost always find a way to maximize player strengths into a line-up.  Look at how Gallant and Sutter maximized Gudbranson in Florida and Calgary for example.   
 

Schmidt needs to play the right side, and should have been given more opportunities to play with Hughes (to which Green should have designed a system in which that pairing would have minimized defensive lapses but failed to do so). 

agreed, i do think a better coaching group could have got more out of Schmidt and who we have now.

 

But Benning knows who his coach is, doesn't he?