2C or 3C

[Bertuzzipunch]

We getting pretty damn greedy if we want horvat to be our 3C . I know numerous teams that would use him as their 1C.

[King Heffy]

23 minutes ago, PunjabiCanucks said:

Imagine if teams had to decide between Horvat or a Horvat 2.0 to match up against. 

 

WE NEED TO CLONE HORVATS 

Mctavish 

[smithers joe]

i just wish people would not put numbers on the lines. if we have 3 lines that can score, then what ever line is going the bestin any game, play the most. itcould be a different line each game.  even now, some games miller's line is scoring and other nights, bo's line is chipping in points. i look at it as a friendly rivakry. petey with boeser and hoggy; bo with pearson and ............ and miller with podkolzin and ...........

[oldnews]

Jenner

Sutter

Bones./Haula/Richardson/Thompson

Nick Paul.

Trenin

 

some of the 'bottom six' guys I'd be interested in.

[PhillipBlunt]

I sort this out right now. 

 

Hey Bo. Do you view yourself as a 3rd line center?

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

10 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

i just wish people would not put numbers on the lines. if we have 3 lines that can score, then what ever line is going the bestin any game, play the most. itcould be a different line each game.  even now, some games miller's line is scoring and other nights, bo's line is chipping in points. i look at it as a friendly rivakry. petey with boeser and hoggy; bo with pearson and ............ and miller with podkolzin and ...........

I dunno if its even that tho. Dude is a much better scorer than any sorta shutdown guy. You need him on the ice more not less and not always on a line that faces the top line all game.

[Viper007]

55 minutes ago, Schmautzie said:

 

I agree with both of you guys. Three balanced scoring lines with Miller playing centre is the way to go. The sad thing is that keeping Toffoli would have given us the depth to do it if Benning hadn’t “run out of time”.

You know that when he said "ran out of time" wasn't referring to trying to resign Toffoli during FA.  It was the fact that COVID screwed up the plans.

[24K PureCool]

Lol isn't Horvat always listed as the 1C in our official lineups? Guess Petty as 3C makes us a dynasty then. 

[UKNuck96]

53 minutes ago, oldnews said:

call it what you want - 2/3C semantics

 

Horvat was second among all forwards in ice time.

 

He won 648 faceoffs - 2nd on the team was 279.

 

He's the "2C" on this team - and that's extremely unlikely to change.

 

If people want a more secondary scoring oriented 3rd line - that may become increasingly more possible/likely -as the youth develop and the team 'shelters' or tilts the ice less for them. 

 

But Horvat a "3C" I think would misrepresent his role - how weighted his role is.  It sounds like the idea is the he 'should' play a more exclusively defensive "3C" type roll.

 

But perhaps a good analogy here - is Kesler. He may be a prototypical '3C' type - but he was undoubtedly the 2C.

I would still envision Horvat even at 3C would get more ice than most of the other forwards. 
 

The reason I use the 2C /3C tags is because is more about how traditionally the role would be to make it easier to get the point across that rather than looking for a defensive centre to plug in, we use Horvat and look for a more offensive centre instead. 

[UKNuck96]

2 hours ago, tas said:

yeah. I think it's interesting that we still underrated Bo this way. he's averaged 26 goals and 58 points per 82 games over the last 5 seasons while taking most of the hardest matchups. 

 

I think he's closer to a 1c than a 3c. 

I don’t underage him, I envision him as a shutdown centre that can score - as oldnews said something similar to Kesler .  While he may be a ‘3C’ playing the matchup role, PP and PL would mean he probably would get more ice time than the other centres, EP would get more sheltered offensive zone starts allowing him to excel in that aspect.

 

 

we could use miller as a centre but the point I was trying to make is that should we be looking for a defensive centre to plug into that role when we have Horvat who can excel in that role, and so if we go shopping for a centre we look for one than can be more offensive minded, rather than another sutter/beagle type of C

[khay]

3 hours ago, UKNuck96 said:

So there is a lot of talk about how we need a 3c going forward and a lot of trade proposals or ways we could acquire one;

 

The way I look at it is we have a perfect 3C in Horvat if we want to run three strong lines. 1st becomes more offence orientated, 2nd balances 3rd more defensive but all three would still be able to score and play. 
 

We would still use BH on the PP and PK and on matchups so even though he would be ‘3C’ he would still probably clock up more time than 1st line. 
 

based on what we need I would prefer to look for a player that has offensive upsides than looking to find someone to plug the 3rd line option?

 

what are people’s thoughts on this? 

IMO, Bo's scoring rate is way too high to be considered a 3C.

 

Given more scoring opportunities, I think Bo can hit 70+ points as I somehow feel that Bo hasn't hit his prime yet. He has been improving every season and looks like he will continue to improve further in the next couple of years. 

 

If we are going to use Bo for more defensive roles, we better get a 2C that can produce better offence than Bo. Finding such player will be difficult and expensive.

 

Two names that have been thrown around as possible 2C options are Sam Reinhart and RNH. Both of these guys has very similar, perhaps slightly better offensive numbers to Bo.

 

But RNH will require some term + dollar and acquiring Reinhart will be costly, maybe a 1st rounder + a prospect.

 

So why not just keep Bo as 2C and find a cheaper 3C that can kill penalties, produce maybe 20-40 points in a season unless Reinhart or RNH or someone else is available on a discount like Schmidt last season? 

 

Just my thoughts.

 

[J-P]

4 minutes ago, UKNuck96 said:

I would still envision Horvat even at 3C would get more ice than most of the other forwards. 
 

The reason I use the 2C /3C tags is because is more about how traditionally the role would be to make it easier to get the point across that rather than looking for a defensive centre to plug in, we use Horvat and look for a more offensive centre instead. 

Agree. It's not about Horvat getting less ice time. He could probably score 60-70 points as an offensive 2C for years to come, but you could argue he's more valuable scoring 40-50 points as a defensive elite 3C (with difference only in deployments and somewhat linemates, not ice time).

 

The alternative of course is to get another elite 3C that can both shutdown opponents top lines and contribute offensively, and get that player ready in 1-2 years on a contract that lasts a few years. Yeah, ok, good luck with that...

 

Anyway, no arguing that Bo is good enough to be the 2C on any team in the league, but if we want to win having 2 good centers is not enough, you need 4.

[khay]

1 hour ago, 4petesake said:

I like the trio of Petey, Miller and Horvat for the top three and would be looking to poach someone with entry draft protection issues like Jason Dickinson in Dallas or Andrew Copp in Winnipeg. Both have good size and decent skating with a little bit of offensive upside. The downside is both will be RFA and Copp could get pricey so Dickinson would be my first choice.

I actually didn't like Miller as a center. 

 

I think being a winger lets Miller play within his limitations. Being a center exposed Miller's weaknesses as he had way more responsibilities and he let his frustration get the better of him on many occasions when he wasn't able to fulfill some of those responsibilities well.

 

I think we absolutely need to acquire a 3C.

[J-P]

3 minutes ago, khay said:

IMO, Bo's scoring rate is way too high to be considered a 3C.

 

Given more scoring opportunities, I think Bo can hit 70+ points as I somehow feel that Bo hasn't hit his prime yet. He has been improving every season and looks like he will continue to improve further in the next couple of years. 

 

If we are going to use Bo for more defensive roles, we better get a 2C that can produce better offence than Bo. Finding such player will be difficult and expensive.

 

Two names that have been thrown around as possible 2C options are Sam Reinhart and RNH. Both of these guys has very similar, perhaps slightly better offensive numbers to Bo.

 

But RNH will require some term + dollar and acquiring Reinhart will be costly, maybe a 1st rounder + a prospect.

 

So why not just keep Bo as 2C and find a cheaper 3C that can kill penalties, produce maybe 20-40 points in a season unless Reinhart or RNH or someone else is available on a discount like Schmidt last season? 

 

Just my thoughts.

 

If we can find that center and lock him up for 3-4 years at least sure. I don't think RNH or Reinhart is the answer though. In my eyes these are players you surround your core with on short term contracts via TDL etc, you don't sign or trade for them as long term solutions.

 

I'm not really up to date with the draft, some seem to think McTavish could be 3C in 1-2 years putting up some points. That's more of the solution I'd be looking for, alternatively looking for a 3C that's had a down year and would sign a long term contract at reasonable cost like Wennberg, Soderberg etc. Lowry would have been perfect...

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, J-P said:

The alternative of course is to get another elite 3C that can both shutdown opponents top lines and contribute offensively, and get that player ready in 1-2 years on a contract that lasts a few years. Yeah, ok, good luck with that...

 

[J-P]

3 minutes ago, khay said:

I actually didn't like Miller as a center. 

 

I think being a winger lets Miller play within his limitations. Being a center exposed Miller's weaknesses as he had way more responsibilities and he let his frustration get the better of him on many occasions when he wasn't able to fulfill some of those responsibilities well.

 

I think we absolutely need to acquire a 3C.

I know people will flame me for this but I do think there are issues with Miller and that Hirsch has a point that he's not a player you win with. I always got the sense that EP and Miller didn't really like each other but pushed each other to be at their best (although I believe Miller's north/south style robbed off a bit too much on EP).

 

That said, Miller is clearly a very good player with a very intense character, so who  knows what playing 3C with pods on his wing might do for him?

[Bertuzzipunch]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Who is that?

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, J-P said:

I know people will flame me for this but I do think there are issues with Miller and that Hirsch has a point that he's not a player you win with. I always got the sense that EP and Miller didn't really like each other but pushed each other to be at their best (although I believe Miller's north/south style robbed off a bit too much on EP).

 

That said, Miller is clearly a very good player with a very intense character, so who  knows what playing 3C with pods on his wing might do for him?

Maybe Pods plays 3C, and Miller is on his wing?  

[J-P]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Nope. Too expensive, on the downhill and not too impressed by his playoffs stats. He's a good player at the right age for a 3-4 year contract as a 3C so not dismissing it as a proposal, but at the 4-5 mil I expect he'll get it's a no for me.

 

He is the kind of of player you go after if you're being "aggressive" and don't mind overpaying a bit though...

[J-P]

2 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Who is that?

boone jenner, columbus