Benning on donnie and dhali

[RU SERIOUS]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

During a rebuild don’t you expect your team to draft top ten several times?  

Of course - but that is not the point of my comments.

[-DLC-]

32 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I have an open mind at this point. Do I fear he is going to make more panic level moves to make the playoffs next year? Sure. But I am hopeful he doesnt and will wait to judge what moves he makes.

 

Until his previous mistakes are gone, they still have an impact on the team so no it cant be treated as if they never happened. 

 

With any GM thats been around as long as he has, you cant focus only on next year. That type of thinking is why many want to gloss over his mistakes and absolve him of responsibility. 

 

I express my opinions on hat i want to see happen and what i dont. Whatever happens will ultimately determine if I am critical or supportive of the moves.

Can you show me a person who doesn't make mistakes?

 

It seems that we're holding him to a standard that many of us likely can't meet.  People also can learn from mistakes, that's often how growth happens...by trial and error.  Not sure why we have to dwell on them, even if some have created current issues.  At some point, we do have to move on from "past" mistakes.  Even in court there are statutes of limitations.

 

"Until his previous mistakes are gone" isn't completely in his control.  Nor is how they panned out.

[204CanucksFan]

7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

So no one can criticize a public figure because his daughter might not like hearing it?

 

Thatis a freedom of speech issue for sure. Sorry to tell you.

Freedom of Speech means the government can't arrest you for what you are saying. It doesn't mean that anyone has to listen to what you say or host you on there platform while you say it. The Right to Freedom of Speech doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences. And it certainly doesn't give people the right to harass Bennings teenage daughter because they don't like what Benning is doing. 

 

As I said before, it has nothing to do with her. It's the same if people on this forum knew who you were in real life and then proceeded to harass your children based on the comments you post on this site. Legally it's allowed, ethically its unquestionably immoral and reprehensible.

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

This is such a bizarre deflection.  It’s like you’re applying legal rights to a moral issue and acting like that makes it the correct course of action.  Just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should.  You’re also side-stepping open derision and trying to smooth it over as “criticism.” 
 

Nobody is arguing that people shouldn’t criticize Benning - let alone shouldn’t have the right to do so. 
 

But faced with the information that the level of hostility he’s publicly facing is having a detrimental effect on his family, I would think most people would reflect on the manner and level at which they are contributing to the situation and consider changing their actions accordingly. 
 

Steamrolling that information as “pathetic” without any regard is pretty brutal, tbh. 
 

From a more practical standpoint, It’s also all been completely useless - management and ownership have completely tuned out the noise.  The irony is that someone like me, who just turns off the TV, doesn’t go to games or buy merch and dials back the Canuck media intake when the team is doing poorly - likely has a bigger influence on what ownership would do than the people who spend all their time complaining.

He is not facing unheard of levels of criticism. He is facing what many other public figures face. 

 

You contradict yourself in this post which is exactly my point.

 

You are saying people can only criticize Benning in a way that you deem respectful enough. Why is what you think more important than what others think? Why do you get to decide what is anacceotable outlet for criticism? We have actual laws that do that and are theoretically there to take bias like yours out of the equation.

 

Do I like and appeove of some people's methods? No. But ai also respect their right to free speech.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Of course - but that is not the point of my comments.

Benning has rebuilt our young core, right?

Goalie

Two dynamic puck moving D

number one centre

Scoring winger

He kept Bo, who is an awesome 2C

He added via trade Miller, who is a great power forward.

Now he’s continuing to build a support group for that core.  Young guys coming up through the draft, like Hogs, and Pods.  And more after them.  (Lind, Woo, Lockwood, Dipietro, Gads, etc.)

Seriously,, how can a fan not like the work Benning has done to get us such a promising future?  

[-DLC-]

14 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

So no one can criticize a public figure because his daughter might not like hearing it?

 

Thatis a freedom of speech issue for sure. Sorry to tell you.

 

No one is blaming or targeting her for what her dad does though. If they were, like people on here did to Gaudette and Tryamkins wives I would take equal exception to it.

 

Not being allowed to legitimately criticize Benning because he has a teenage daughter who shouldnt have to hear it is ridiculous.

When criticism involves relentless actions, following people as they go about their business, flying banners and standing outside their workplace with a megaphone to have them fired, it sort of borders on harassment.

 

 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Benning has rebuilt our young core, right?

Goalie

Two dynamic puck moving D

number one centre

Scoring winger

He kept Bo, who is an awesome 2C

He added via trade Miller, who is a great power forward.

Now he’s continuing to build a support group for that core.  Young guys coming up through the draft, like Hogs, and Pods.  And more after them.  (Lind, Woo, Lockwood, Dipietro, Gads, etc.)

Seriously,, how can a fan not like the work Benning has done to get us such a promising future?  

Because the average fan looks past that and thinks that a GM should be able to build a cup contender in 7 years regardless of circumstances.

[Bertuzzipunch]

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

When criticism involves relentless actions, following people as they go about their business, flying banners to have them fire it sort of borders on harassment.

 

 

Regardless you gotta be a real dumbass to think that was a good thing to do. Go take your family out for ice cream instead or do something actually productive. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

He is not facing unheard of levels of criticism. He is facing what many other public figures face. 

 

You contradict yourself in this post which is exactly my point.

 

You are saying people can only criticize Benning in a way that you deem respectful enough. Why is what you think more important than what others think? Why do you get to decide what is anacceotable outlet for criticism? We have actual laws that do that and are theoretically there to take bias like yours out of the equation.

 

Do I like and appeove of some people's methods? No. But ai also respect their right to free speech.

We’re in Canada’s, so it’s freedom of expression.  And these freedoms are also governed by human decency, and common sense.

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Can you show me a person who doesn't make mistakes?

 

It seems that we're holding him to a standard that many of us likely can't meet.  People also can learn from mistakes, that's often how growth happens...by trial and error.  Not sure why we have to dwell on them, even if some have created current issues.  At some point, we do have to move on from "past" mistakes.  Even in court there are statutes of limitations.

 

"Until his previous mistakes are gone" isn't completely in his control.  Nor is how they panned out.

When have I said people dont make mistakes? When have I said my expectation is perfection from Benning?

 

People can learn from mistakes and I already said I am hoping he does. 

 

If he does make the same mistakes again though what is the likelihood you and others will actually see them as mistakes? 

 

Having high standards for the GM of your team is better than having none. 

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

When have I said people dont make mistakes? When have I said my expectation is perfection from Benning?

 

People can learn from mistakes and I already said I am hoping he does. 

 

If he does make the same mistakes again though what is the likelihood you and others will actually see them as mistakes? 

 

Having high standards for the GM of your team is better than having none. 

 

If he makes another dumb mistake like long deals for old questionable 3rd line players i will want him gone immediately. If he hasnt learned by now he will never learn. 
 

i have no doubt right now that hes in his office thinking wtf did i do signing rousell and beagle for that long. How couldnt he be thinking that with the way our cap is atm.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Bertuzzipunch

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We’re in Canada’s, so it’s freedom of expression.  And these freedoms are also governed by human decency, and common sense.

Which are incredibly subjective in nature and therefore are almost impossible to enforce. Freedom of speech does not have a bunch of asterisks attached to it for good reason.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

When have I said people dont make mistakes? When have I said my expectation is perfection from Benning?

 

People can learn from mistakes and I already said I am hoping he does. 

 

If he does make the same mistakes again though what is the likelihood you and others will actually see them as mistakes? 

 

Having high standards for the GM of your team is better than having none. 

 

So now you’re projecting mistakes into the future, like you’re anticipating them happening?  Benning will still have misses (or mistakes). It’s impossible not to.  The big thing is whether his wins (successes) overcome the misses (mistakes).  And clearly they have.  Guddy trade was bad, but getting PeArson was good, right?  Drafting Jake was a miss, but Hoglander was a second round steal.  OJ looks like a mistake, but look how great a pick Bone was!  The Miller trade was fantastic.  Schmidt was a steal.  Yes, Benn8ng has made mistakes, but his hits (wins, positive moves) clearly outweigh the negative.  

[TheRussianRocket1994]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

Peoples “freedoms” end where other’s begin.
 

JB should have the freedom to go to the supermarket without being harassed.  His daughter should have the freedom to live her life without experiencing her dad being publicly bullied on radio, TV, the internet and social media. (Because let’s face it - the discussion around Benning has gone waaaaaay past calm discussions about his successes and failures.)  There’s parody videos, a web comic, countless throwaway posts calling him an idiot, an airplane banner, hundreds of hours of radio or podcast call-ins and commentary running the guy down.  
 

You can’t swing a dead cat on a Canuck topic without someone reciting the “seven years of benning’s mistakes” like it’s some kind of monastic chant.  When nothing has happened lately, I get to read fantasies (or tired old jokes) made up by the media and fans about the next horrible thing that will happen as though it’s already written in stone.  Ian Clarke leaving, guys demanding trades, the Myers 7x7 contract, Petey and Hughes signing for a combined 20 mil. When they aren’t re-living things from 6 or 7 years ago it’s “outrage” over stuff that hasn’t happened yet.  
 

Reading an article about offseason strategy, I have to sift through half a dozen little jabs at management to placate the mob before they basically conclude that once we ride out this year we’re likely in great shape (assuming the on ice product evens out.) 
 

That’s where the critical group completely lost me - it’s snowballed into an excuse to indulge in some sociopathic / or just plain pathetic self-pitying behaviour.  

Thank you for this post! Spot on! Exactly what i'm saying as well. I'm sooo done (as well as others) with this mentality / behavior from the media and a large portion of this fan base. This is why i went off on WSA & AV on here yesterday, although i prob crossed the line in the process. But, enough is enough!! Not only do we see it re: the Canucks on here, but on social media, radio, tv & in public. It's everywhere. And, it's just beating the same agenda to death and that agenda has nothing to do with being a fan. Point out how it's effecting his family (daughter) and it's right back to their agenda and defending the people that are causing it. Even more sad is that this mentality / behavior is creeping into society in general. Just read any comments on FB or reflect on how these people conducted themselves during this pandemic. I may be honest and extremely harsh at times, but these people need to be accountable or this stuff will eventually spiral out of control, if it hasn't already. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by IRR

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Which are incredibly subjective in nature and therefore are almost impossible to enforce. Freedom of speech does not have a bunch of asterisks attached to it for good reason.

Our freedom of expression laws are governed by common sense.  And those who did fly that banner would be held legally accountable for their actions if the target of their abuse (or a child of the target) had serious mental health issues as a consequence of that action.  Yes, we have freedom to express ourselves, but we are not exempt from consequences that result from that expression.  

[TheRussianRocket1994]

31 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

So no one can criticize a public figure because his daughter might not like hearing it?

 

Thatis a freedom of speech issue for sure. Sorry to tell you.

 

No one is blaming or targeting her for what her dad does though. If they were, like people on here did to Gaudette and Tryamkins wives I would take equal exception to it.

 

Not being allowed to legitimately criticize Benning because he has a teenage daughter who shouldnt have to hear it is ridiculous.

It is unreal that you can't comprehend this.....it's been said over & over.....it's not what is being done, it's how it's been done!!! A huge chuck of it has been beyond excessive!! 

[buddhahoodlum]

So the Vancouver sports media has been lying to us to fit a particular narrative? Yet I'm sure there are plenty on here who believe it impossible that the non-sports media is lying to us to push an agenda. As an example, the decades of the media calling anybody who criticizes Israel anti-Semitic. 

[zimmy]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I have actually not done what you say I have. I have judged his moves based on the move itself. When I like moves I say so. When I dont I say so. I dont use the ya but thing in my assessment of individual moves. Would be interested to see all your examples of me doing that consistently.

 

I criticize the overall effectiveness of his work as a whole as he does make similar mistakes repeatedly. But its not that I instantly dislike everything he does for the sake of it. I just also dont automatically love everything he does either.

I just don’t get the feeling that JB will ever dig himself out of the hole you see him in, which is your right, obviously. “On the whole”, despite cleaning your plate, he is and will always be a failure in your estimation.

Perhaps he will succeed at something that meets your standard for praise and you will be effusive in your commentary. I suppose we can all hope for such opportunities.

Edited May 29, 2021 by zimmy

[wallstreetamigo]

17 minutes ago, IRR said:

It is unreal that you can't comprehend this.....it's been said over & over.....it's not what is being done, it's how it's been done!!! A huge chuck of it has been beyond excessive!! 

Its excessive according to you. To the people doing it, its obviously not something they consider excessive.

 

Unfortunately for you, both of you have the exact same right to detetmine what is considered excessive. As long as they arent breaking laws its not your place or mine or anyone else's to tell them how its being done is outside the lines.

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, zimmy said:

I just don’t get the feeling that JB will ever dig himself out of the hole you see him in, which is your right, obviously. “On the whole”, despite cleaning your plate, he is and will always be a failure in your estimation.

Perhaps he will succeed at something that meets your standard for praise and will be effusive in your commentary. I suppose we can all hope for such opportunities.

If he makes good moves going forward why would he not be able to dig his way out of it?

 

Any moves he does going forward are also part of "on the whole" arent they? Thats kind of the point of looking at the whole picture to make a judgment on his work. So if he makes good moves my overall opinion of him as a GM will obviously improve.

 

Where people take issue seems to be I dont see him as having dug his way out of it yet. Thats my opinion but that doesnt mean he cant.

Edited May 29, 2021 by wallstreetamigo