[Trade] nashville/kings arvidsson To LA: Arvidsson To NAS: 2021 2nd RD, 2022 3rd RD

[lmm]

11 hours ago, Alflives said:

And the Kings are still in the depth of their rebuild, so giving up high picks for an Older guy like Arvidson is only going to get them sooner to mediocre - which is the worst place to be.  Terrible trade by Blake.  This is the Buffalo model.  

Veteran Leadership

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

The season is never lost until we are mathmatically eliminated... by 5 points

How'd you like the first unit PP toning it down to only 1:45 in the last game of the season?

 

I get it but this past season was an uphill battle from the start - other teams would had recognized and focused on playing & showcasing the future; whereas teams like the Canucks are playing there vets & competing till (like you stated) the team is mathematically eliminated.  With hindsight, which would had been the best decision ?

 

Some teams fanbase are ok with tanking in a losing season and others have no real appetite for it - Aquaman knows this fact and will continue to conduct the (so called) rebuild the same way for the most part; although, the shake up off the ice has me hopeful that there might be some changes coming as well (?); and this off season will say alot about the team off the ice moving forward - imo.

Edited July 2, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[lmm]

12 hours ago, aGENT said:

I loved when LA did a #proper rebuild by selling all their vets like Kopitar, Brown, Doughty and Quick!

 

yes, its fun watching another team rebuild exactly the same way Jimmer did

if Kopitar and Brown = the Sedins, signed to long and for too much$ to trade

and Muzzin + Toffoli = Kesler + Bieksa, traded for a 1st + 2nd + bits

and Martinez = Garrison, traded for a 2nd (actually Martinez was traded for two 2nds)

this next bit gets tricky, Pearson gets traded for Haglin, then Gudbranson who was traded for McCann (1st in Kesler trade) and 2nd, and you are laughing at LA for trading a 2nd +3rd for Arvidsson

WHile you are belly laughing at Blake I have to wonder if the LA faithful are talking about following the Vancouver model?

I also wonder if Rob Blake ever called Trevor Lewis  "A Glue Guy"?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Master Mind said:

Minnesota too, and St Louis is no slouch, but yes the rest were weak.

 

LA won't have the same roster next season, and their young players will only get better.

 

After Vegas and Edmonton, the Pacific is wide open.

Minny and Blues looked good because of the rest of the division, imo. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

yes, its fun watching another team rebuild exactly the same way Jimmer did

Spare us the particulars.  
 

They have rebuilt similarly except that Kings didn’t strike gold with their top 10 picks yet while we did.  
 

If they do better going forward, they will do so with their 30+ year old vets in Kopitar and Doughty. 

[lmm]

22 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Spare us the particulars.  
 

They have rebuilt similarly except that Kings didn’t strike gold with their top 10 picks yet while we did.  
 

If they do better going forward, they will do so with their 30+ year old vets in Kopitar and Doughty. 

Spare you the particulars?

Particulars is what I do.

Its what makes this place worth while for me.

The Kings are hooped with their boat anchor contracts, just like the Canucks have been for the last 8-9 years

Kings fans will probably start to sound like Canuck fans, "we'll start to compete again in X number of years, when our anchor contrcts expire"

Other than the fact that their anchor contracts won them 2 cups, the Kings are in the same boat as the Canucks. its just  that they are 5 years behind, and that Doughtey contract runs longer than the Sedin and Ericksson contract combined.

BtheB i didn't say the Arvidson deal was good, just Canuckish

[wai_lai416]

 

 

17 hours ago, Alflives said:

The Kings will get to mediocre quickly, and get stuck there.  Keep the picks and continue to build through the draft.  

lol LA king boast a top 5 prospect pool and they'll add to it with the 8th overall pick.. they have over 15mil to add to their lineup next year with couple of their top prospect projected to make it in the NHL most notably byfield.. and with kopitar and doughty can continue to play at a high lvl? and browns cap coming off next year and quick the year after? doubt they are going to be mediocre anytime soon lol

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

I would assume LA is not done adding yet. Doughty and leaders of the LA Kings vehemently asked Blake to add pieces.

 

With their plethora of picks and prospects, I expect some more moves to be made by LA, don't look now, but they may become very good and competitive quickly here.

Mentioned that a few times over the course of the season, of the three CALI teams, LA will be our biggest challenge next year as they paid their dues by moving on from Pearson, TT, Martinez and Muzzin in Blake's attempt to get one last run(s) with their aging core.   SJ endless re-tooling is over might also continue but shouldn't.   They have zero in the pipe and little hope to not be up against a long rebuilding process like we have and are going through.    LA has some very good young players coming up now.   ANA too but they are in for a longer haul.   This is Blake's first move i wouldn't be surprised at all to see more coming.     LA is pushing now and won't stop - for sure a dark horse. 

 

On EK, SJ.  And Doughty too.  And Toews and Kane.   All these guys have grumbled and made comments about having to rebuild and not going for it still.   EK " I didn't realize when i signed the contract that i would be heading into another rebuild, went through it in OTT and don't want to again" (paraphrasing)...Toews and Kane lamenting on losing some of the remanents of their old core and rebuilding.   Pouty Doughty complaining about it too.   It's so hypocritical of these guys given how it's their contracts that put their teams in this position to a large degree.   10-11 is a substantial slice of the pie right?   Said it the second i saw Toews and Kane's deal that was the last cup they'd ever see.   EK has being arrogant in the media this year, never recalled him acting that way in OTT... Scored a couple goals one game ... what did he say again?  "it's nothing special i've been doing this for years" lol.  

[IBatch]

23 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

 

lol LA king boast a top 5 prospect pool and they'll add to it with the 8th overall pick.. they have over 15mil to add to their lineup next year with couple of their top prospect projected to make it in the NHL most notably byfield.. and with kopitar and doughty can continue to play at a high lvl? and browns cap coming off next year and quick the year after? doubt they are going to be mediocre anytime soon lol

LA has put the time in to re-tool for Doughty and Kopitar.   Carter is gone too.   At the same time they are rebuilding behind them.    Doing it right, including via the draft and selling the assets they could.   Goes to show how things could have gone if our guys weren't covered in NMC/NTC's.   

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Spare us the particulars.  
 

They have rebuilt similarly except that Kings didn’t strike gold with their top 10 picks yet while we did.  
 

If they do better going forward, they will do so with their 30+ year old vets in Kopitar and Doughty. 

And like i said above, they actually got some good returns on their aging support or even core guys (Muzzin, TT etc)... They are re-tooling and rebuilding at the same time.   Wouldn't be too hasty about striking gold either - Byfield looks legit. 

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Except they haven’t improved that much to think they’ll fly up the Pacific standings.

 

They finished 2nd last only ahead of San Jose last year and dead last the season before.

 

Where exactly have they improved since then? I just see Doughty, Quick, and Koptiar continuing to regress. Does Byfield step in and offer them the spark they need? Maybe, but I don’t see it. Maybe if their core was a few years younger.

 

Think they have a good 3-4 years with Doughty.   Kopitar probably 2.   Not playing as much the last two years has probably helped extend their shelf life.    Nothing makes me happier then reading looking at Doughty's plus minus and then comparing it to Eagles when we were at our lowest lol.  -34, -16, -14 after his Norris (which i think was given based on hockey writers worried he'd end up like Brad Park, not my choice anyways for the winner).     He's only 31, and often  blue chip D's have their best seasons in their early 30's.   Heck the Sedins were peaking around that age.

 

Kopitar can still carry a line.   Over an 82 game schedule though ... figure at most two seasons and then like the Sedins last several years, would be better suited for the second line.     So this "window" that Blake created, is only open for a short time unless Byfield is incredible or something.     They for sure have a chance at a 3-4 finish this year.   And once the playoffs start you just never know.   Quick like Holtby, has seriously regressed...goaltending for sure is a big question mark.   Feel we should end up higher then them. 

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, Beary Sweet said:

Win win for both teams. LA get a veteran, 2 way player in Arvidsson while Preds stockpile on picks. We’ll have to see how Arvidsson performs with LA and who Preds use with the picks to determine who gets the upper hand in this trade 

Considering NSH was likely losing him for nothing, they win every time already ... unless Arvidsson goes and does what Miller did for us which seems very unlikely.    

 

LA draws/ties  if they get into the playoffs as a result...

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

The Kings are literally halting their full rebuild by trading out picks for a veteran here.  
 

Good trade for the Kings to get out of their rut. Their youngsters haven’t arrived yet though.  Doing a full rebuild would require them tanking for another year or two. 

Like JB, Blake knows that you have to plan for what you don't have in your pool yet, and he's not a bad player to provide veteran leadership around.    He's the only CALi GM, that had the presence of mind to trade core or core support players away when his main guys were in their late twenties or just turning 30 in Kopitars case, and continued that theme for several seasons.   As a result LA has one of the better 21 and under groups in the entire league coming up.    The plan is to give his old crew one more shot, and that foresight will pay huge dividends when it comes to the full rebuild that's coming too.   It's possible just like Vancouver that it might only click for one season...or maybe two or many none.   Compared to SJ, they are years ahead.    ANA possibly too. 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

 I dont know why we are trying to put Boeser and Hughes in this group. Just because they are in our core, doesnt mean they are core pieces on a contending team.   When you compare the core of contending teams to ours, we come up so short its almost pathetic.  If Hogs and Podz develop into our core, and we draft a legit number one dman, then we can start thinking about comparing us to other contending cores.    

That's pretty weak.   I've been tough on QHs this season ... but there is no denying he's a force to reckon with once the pucks on his stick he's a one man zone exit machine.    Does it as good or better then anyone in the league.   You don't get a 99 percentile in that area unless you are at the tippy top, and the way he can enter the other zone (98) and just stop inside the blue line and make a play is unreal too.     BB won the Calder and was having the best season so far until Covid.   He's a much more complete player, Patrick Sharp, a core guy for CHI, is a very good comp.   We'd have a massive gap in the lineup without him.   Our PP went from 23rd to 9th when he started getting time his rookie season.    Saying they aren't playoff players is way too early.   And the small sample size we have is fine so far too.   He's 6'1, 210lbs and very fit.   And during the bubble, unlike Pearson and TT, he backchecked like crazy, and took hits to make plays along the boards and appeared no worse the wear for it.   Look at the guy during press conferences, very fit dude, next to JV who a ton seen to think is some sort of power forward in the making, his shoulders look twice as broad.   He's not a tiny little guy like i've seen you complain about on other threads.   QHs i get for sure, i share the trepidation.    Before Vegas he seemed to do fine, and both MIN and St. Louis aren't slouches when it comes to contact.   He did have one game that he made a major impact against Vegas despite all the attention he'd ensured up to then as well.   Way more then the beloved TT, who was basically invisible like the rest of our team in that series with the exception of Demko, Motte and Myers. 

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, Alflives said:

The King’s stars are old, and will only get them to mediocre.  This type of trade is too soon.  They don’t have a young core to transition to.  

This is where your probably not aware that they have quite the collection of young players on their way in.   This deal isn't much different that picking up Sutter.  The difference is the cost was relatively low because of the ED, and that LA already has one of the best pools in the entire league.   Because they've been flogging their core and support vets for years and accruing tons of picks.   JB had to deal with the worst 9 years of drafting our club ever had.  But he did manage to pick up a lot of picks too, some of which he used to fill the tweener age gap in Bear and Vey, others to facilitate other moves to give the Sedins one last chance.   It worked for one season. 

 

Blake has been planning this for three years now.   Right after he signed Doughty who was only 28ish at the time.   Instead of trying to win with his key guys in their peak primes (Doughty had recently won a Norris) he knew it wouldn't be enough (which it wasn't) and started to trade what he could that wasn't loaded with clauses.   Will it work?  Not as far as cups go, but for sure it will help as far as giving them a small extra window, and even more importantly, give their young players a chance to learn from the players that did win a cup if they make the playoffs.   I suspect he's got more up his sleeves.   If he can dump Brown a lot more, if not then his target will be next season.    No LA isn't close to as far ahead as we are, they are right where we were when the Sedins were 32 (but instead of dead last prospect wise they are already top five)  ... If this is all Blake does it's ok.   If he pushes more then it could get better but like you've and others have noted at what cost for the future.   That part is very subjective, but Blake is the only CALi GM who had the presence of mind to re-set or force a down period on purpose to give his core the best chance - both the old one, and the new one which he's managed to kick-start 3-4 years before most GMs would bother.   He's been very intelligent about the process, and that includes this move.   Has the luxury because of trades like TT. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by IBatch

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, lmm said:

yes, its fun watching another team rebuild exactly the same way Jimmer did

if Kopitar and Brown = the Sedins, signed to long and for too much$ to trade

and Muzzin + Toffoli = Kesler + Bieksa, traded for a 1st + 2nd + bits

and Martinez = Garrison, traded for a 2nd (actually Martinez was traded for two 2nds)

this next bit gets tricky, Pearson gets traded for Haglin, then Gudbranson who was traded for McCann (1st in Kesler trade) and 2nd, and you are laughing at LA for trading a 2nd +3rd for Arvidsson

WHile you are belly laughing at Blake I have to wonder if the LA faithful are talking about following the Vancouver model?

I also wonder if Rob Blake ever called Trevor Lewis  "A Glue Guy"?

The ironing is lost on some.

[DrJockitch]

20 hours ago, Alflives said:

The King’s stars are old, and will only get them to mediocre.  This type of trade is too soon.  They don’t have a young core to transition to.  

You will surely note that neither of these pics were the Kings, they were acquired by moving out older non-core players. 
You also miss the fact that atm the Kings have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL, I know doesn’t fit your narrative that they are old and have nothing to transition to. 
They have essentially done what Benning wanted to do when he came, they built up prospects and talent while respecting the vets who brought them 2 cups and are ready to add some pieces to the new core and old Champions to try to make another run. 
We will see if they did a better job over the next several years but at this point it sure looks like they have really used the advantage that comes with competent management manage their assets much better than we have. 
To be clear I can’t stand the Kings. Not a fan in any way.  But they have shown that a hybrid rebuild can be done well with the right management. 
 

[c00kies]

23 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

makes sense, NSH would probably like to protect Kunin over VA. LA has lots of picks. 

I'm happy teams are making these moves with each other instead of Seattle.

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

You will surely note that neither of these pics were the Kings, they were acquired by moving out older non-core players. 
You also miss the fact that atm the Kings have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL, I know doesn’t fit your narrative that they are old and have nothing to transition to. 
They have essentially done what Benning wanted to do when he came, they built up prospects and talent while respecting the vets who brought them 2 cups and are ready to add some pieces to the new core and old Champions to try to make another run. 
We will see if they did a better job over the next several years but at this point it sure looks like they have really used the advantage that comes with competent management manage their assets much better than we have. 
To be clear I can’t stand the Kings. Not a fan in any way.  But they have shown that a hybrid rebuild can be done well with the right management. 
 

The Kings are terrible.  They will now be slightly better than terrible.  Our young core guys a way better than theirs.  

[King Heffy]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Kings are terrible.  They will now be slightly better than terrible.  Our young core guys a way better than theirs.  

Byfield is a top two pick.  While I'm not a huge fan of his game, he went that high for a reason.