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Thousands dead in unmarked graves from Canadian Residential Schools


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Posted (edited)

This sucks, I get it, we have a high regard for ourselves in comparison to the rest of the world, and I don't think that should change, what we did however many years ago shouldn't reflect too much on how we are now. Yes we were ignorant to what happened, I'm part Cree I had heard about these schools but never really understood them as the Cree in my family sort of lost itself in interracial marriage. We've been ignorant to a lot of things that have only come to the surface now in the age of information. It's hard to blame our past for being guilty of ignorance when the web they could cast wasn't much further than the town they lived in. 

 

The problem here IMO is many virtue signallers are accusing others of being what I like to call "Guards at Auschwitz", when in reality, most of us had no idea it even existed.

 

I'll tell you this though, if we go down that path, all it will do is breed extremism similar to what we are seeing in America now. This needs to be dealt with swiftly and we need to move forward. If people are feeling an unfair part of the blame, than those feeling need to be validated like everything else these days, because if you tell certain people they can't have feelings then it will lash itself out in some negative manner later. I'm not debating whether they are right or wrong to feel that way or whether there is a right or wrong, but I can definitely see the slippery slope this can lead to if the wrong people are allowed to profit from this movement. And unfortunately from what I have seen in the US, I fear this is more than likely to happen in Canada as well, a small group of people will guilt profit while the true victims will soon be forgotten.

 

I don't know I feel like I'm rambling. 

 

I guess I can put it succinctly this way, I don't think it's wrong for the individual to feel like they are not guilty, but I do believe we do have an obligation as a nation to make this right.

 


 

Edited by canuckster19
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I have copied this post by my niece concerning the discovery of 182 unmarked graves at the St. Eugene mission near Cranbrook BC. Lots of unanswered questions about who is buried there and the cause of death. Sadly both social media and the news media have become nothing more than gossip columns with little to no journalistic investigative standards to base their narrative on.
My hope is that these discoveries of numerous burial sites spurs this younger generation of adults and children to be ashamed by the atrocities that were committed and work very hard to ensure that every Canadian, regardless of race, color or religion, is treated with respect, dignity and equal opportunity for success in life.
 
 
 
"With the media flurry over the finding of unmarked graves in the vicinity of residential schools, I have been growing more distressed by the direction of both media and social media posts. Stephen asked me why I was so upset, and in thinking it over, I am really concerned about truth. What we have is truth: that unmarked graves have been found. However we also have seen a lot of extrapolation and assumption: these were definitely children from residential schools, hidden on purpose etc. This really bothers me because I fear that the media/social media shock and outrage has been creating a story over these past few weeks that is not necessarily truth, and in some ways I fear that we are risking losing the truth in the emotional/sensational response generated by media and social media. Further to this, I think that it should be acknowledged that the truth belongs to the survivors of the residential schools and their families and must not be taken over by the mainstream and social media narratives.
The leadership of our local band has shown an admirable commitment to discovering the truth about the 182 unmarked graves found in a cemetery near the site of the former St Eugene residential school. Here is their official statement https://www.steugene.ca/.../20210630-aqam-media-Release...
I would also encourage everyone to commit to truth by learning about the extensive work that has been done with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/.../1450124.../1529106060525
and the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation https://nctr.ca/.../teaching-resources/education-resources/"
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7 minutes ago, canuckster19 said:

The problem here IMO is many virtue signallers are accusing others of being what I like to call "Guards at Auschwitz", when in reality, most of us had no idea it even existed.

I am 70 and had no inkling that this was happening till I was well into my 40`s and even then had no idea how extensive the abuse was.

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Almost every country has a dark history, including Canada. I'm glad they're looking into these atrocities, and my hope is it leads to healing and forgiveness, real reconciliation. My worry is that it will do the opposite. 

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16 minutes ago, canuckster19 said:

And that's the kind of hyperbole these issues don't need.

Not exaggerating here, the more they find the more it's starting to look like that, I don't care if you don't want to see it like that, but that's what it's starting to look like, so I'll continue to use my opinion on how I feel fit.

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I think these discoveries reveal how deep the Canadian problems are. However, I intended to make such a broad, seemingly useless statement because we are narrowing into one particular angle right now. The advantages of this is that we see the events in a deeper manner, yet we may miss out on the overall context.

 

Canada, like any other country, has its share of guilt. It's unrealistic to pretend otherwise. Yet we have to be careful not to use our modern sensibilities (a term I will loosely use to describe our sense of 'morality', which I would argue is hardly refined because we still have all forms of discrimination in play) to judge the past.

 

For every 'good' thing that a person has done for the country, he (usually he) is probably guilty of racism, but that is most certainly not always the case. For example, Dr. Peter Bryce was the medical doctor who tried to blow the whistle on residential schools. He tried to report to the government that the conditions were crap, but he was shut down and forcibly retired. It's only more recently that his legacy is brought back into light. At the same time, this was ALSO the same guy who tried to reinforce anti-Indian (people from India) from coming into Canada. Therefore, if we're going on a historical hunt for 'good' people, you will not likely find it. That is the flaw of the so-called cancel culture.

 

If we topple every statue known to Canada, what are we hoping to achieve? The Queen Victoria statue was perhaps a symbol of colonialism, yet she was referred to by indigenous people as the "great mother".

If Macdonald's statue was worthy of displacement, is Victoria equivalent to him then?

 

What we actually see from these statue removals is the lack of context, and extreme examples of tribalism over an oversimplified history. People are rallying without actually understanding the history.

 

"Statues can be replaced, children can't", someone said. This is true; however, that does not justify the statue removal, upon closer inspection. In fact, that is destruction at public expense. I, for one, do not advocate for destruction of property as that is not democratic. If we don't like something, we can destroy it then? Not to mention that we still do not solve the current issue of residential schools, and its continued impact on indigenous people. In other words, topping a statue will do nothing except divide people.

 

Should we then advocate for the government to use violent crackdowns on those using violence against the state? Does that make it legitimate because there is a perceived lack of order? If this isn't acceptable, then the other situation is not justifiable either.

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7 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Not exaggerating here, the more they find the more it's starting to look like that, I don't care if you don't want to see it like that, but that's what it's starting to look like, so I'll continue to use my opinion on how I feel fit.

The Catholic Church has been doing this for hundreds of years. This is as much of a black mark on them as any one country.

 

Yes Canada played its role but the church needs to accept the blame here too.

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5 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Not exaggerating here, the more they find the more it's starting to look like that, I don't care if you don't want to see it like that, but that's what it's starting to look like, so I'll continue to use my opinion on how I feel fit.

It's not worthy of a comparison, IMHO. I think you should do a closer revision of what you said if you compare it to Hitler.

 

Millions of deaths towards Jews, Communists, and cripples - anyone not worthy of being "German". There was a system to kill these people via concentration camps and gas chambers. What Canada did was not right, but the comparisons to Hitler is just not accurate.

When you make hyperbolic comparisons like that, you will lack the reference points that make your point valid. For instance, the scale of the deaths for one, are vastly different. There is also no "blame" towards indigenous people for ruining Canada. That was VERY specific in Hitler's rhetoric. It's not Hitler-like. That is just wrong. This is a Canada problem, and it's not unique to other problems within other countries.

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14 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

It's not worthy of a comparison, IMHO. I think you should do a closer revision of what you said if you compare it to Hitler.

 

Millions of deaths towards Jews, Communists, and cripples - anyone not worthy of being "German". There was a system to kill these people via concentration camps and gas chambers. What Canada did was not right, but the comparisons to Hitler is just not accurate.

When you make hyperbolic comparisons like that, you will lack the reference points that make your point valid. For instance, the scale of the deaths for one, are vastly different. There is also no "blame" towards indigenous people for ruining Canada. That was VERY specific in Hitler's rhetoric. It's not Hitler-like. That is just wrong. This is a Canada problem, and it's not unique to other problems within other countries.

So you and others who are questioning my opinion are going to try and say this was not a race motivated issue? Not a certain race is being targeted at all? Not like someone has ever done that before... but god forbid if you or anyone tries to compare to them now, you're just exaggerating and you're now allowed to think like that. Get out of here, you and others are not going to tell me how I can feel on the situation, especially when a race is being targeted similar to how other races have been targeted before in the past because of how they look. 

 

If anything what you people are doing is worse, by trying to ignore the similarities to almost not tarish the country or something, are you trying to make it not look as bad or something on purpose? Are you trying to make excuses for them now that it's not as bad or something? Just because they weren't labeled as bad for Canada, it's not as bad as what someone else did now? 

 

And just because they didn't use the same techniques as someone else, the motive is the exact same though, so I don't see why it would be different, it's race motivated.

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Posted (edited)

There is a book called "They Called Me Number One: Secrets and Survival at an Indian Residential School" that is definitely worth reading. The writer Bev Sellars attended a residential school and accounts her time there. She reffers to the residential school as the "Brown Holocaust" and says that they used to refer to is as beating the Indian out of the kids. While not a direct comparable to the scale of the Holocaust, there was a similar end goal. It was to eliminate the culture of the first people. I don't think that comparable is as crazy as people are saying it is here.

Edited by shayster007
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3 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

So you and others who are questioning my opinion are going to try and say this was not a race motivated issue? Not a certain race is being targeted at all? Not like someone has ever done that before... but god forbid if you or anyone tries to compare to them now, you're just exaggerating and you're now allowed to think like that. Get out of here, you and others are not going to tell me how I can feel on the situation, especially when a race is being targeted similar to how other races have been targeted before in the past because of how they look. 

 

If anything what you people are doing is worse, by trying to ignore the similarities to almost not tarish the country or something, are you trying to make it not look as bad or something on purpose? Are you trying to make excuses for them now that it's not as bad or something? Just because they weren't labeled as bad for Canada, it's not as bad as what someone else did now? 

 

And just because they didn't use the same techniques as someone else, the motive is the exact same though, so I don't see why it would be different, it's race motivated.

 

What was the government’s purpose for having these residential schools?  Sure appears the purpose was to eliminate the Indian way of life.  They forced the Indian children out of their community and into a place where they were taught how not to be Indian.  

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It was only a few people who toppled statues and a few that burned churches. It was not all people with First Nations dna. Leaders have already said that they don't agree with toppling statues. Focusing on that and not the atrocities is also not the way forward.

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I read the Cranbrook school closed in the 1970's

When was the last school closed? I'm curious how recent these events may have happened. There are some that seem to comment as though it was in the distance past.

 

Doesn't seem that long ago to me. 

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46 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

The Catholic Church has been doing this for hundreds of years. This is as much of a black mark on them as any one country.

 

Yes Canada played its role but the church needs to accept the blame here too.

The Anglican Church also ran Residential Schools 

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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 

What was the government’s purpose for having these residential schools?  Sure appears the purpose was to eliminate the Indian way of life.  They forced the Indian children out of their community and into a place where they were taught how not to be Indian.  

There's a lot of questions that need to be addressed and looked at, this is something that's going to take some time unfortunately, and the more they uncover, the more questions that'll be asked. I'm really livid though at the people who murdered these people, just angers me.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I read the Cranbrook school closed in the 1970's

When was the last school closed? I'm curious how recent these events may have happened. There are some that seem to comment as though it was in the distance past.

 

Doesn't seem that long ago to me. 

The last school closed in 1996.... Not long ago at all

Edited by shayster007
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2 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

There's a lot of questions that need to be addressed and looked at, this is something that's going to take some time unfortunately, and the more they uncover, the more questions that'll be asked. I'm really livid though at the people who murdered these people, just angers me.

We know the government attempted to ‘murder’ (through these schools) the Indian culture.  Do we know if these burial sites were murdered persons?  Murder by neglect?  Murder by circumstance?  

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  • Shayster007 changed the title to Thousands dead in unmarked graves from Canadian Residential Schools

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