Thousands dead in unmarked graves from Canadian Residential Schools

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

No one should be telling anyone to "get over it"

 

That being said, the media's obsession over this is disingenuous. Where was this level of coverage before the graves? There was plenty of academic and historical evidence for them to do research. Now these journalists think they're historians.

There's been plenty of press about it, going back years, decades.  People just didn't want to hear it.  You're surprised that the media attention increases as the discoveries are made?  That's the definition of "news"..........as it's happening.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

19 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Residential schools will always be a dark aspect of Canada, but healing will happen. Canada just needs to actually address it. Germany actually doesn't hide its past. It's one of the few countries that talks about Nazism very openly. The purpose is to never have that happen again.

This is the distinction I think doesn't get said enough.  Germany has always acknowledged it's attrocities committed by the Nazi regime.  Its people largely still feel a sense of war guilt.  Obviously it doesn't excuse that behavior during WWII.  That didn't (imho) exist in Japan who committed plenty of war crimes for the longest time until I think fairly recently.  A hundred thousand civilians were executed after just the Doolittle raid. Not collateral damage but personally executed, tortured, raped.  Direct vs indirect action.  And that's just war crimes committed after that one raid by Doolittle as retaliation.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

There's been plenty of press about it, going back years, decades.  People just didn't want to hear it.  You're surprised that the media attention increases as the discoveries are made?  That's the definition of "news"..........as it's happening.

Um.

I think people want to hear it, don't you think?

 

Residential schools are not 'news', was my point. Our inconsistent education system is a big part of the reason why some Canadians don't know much about it.
 

Canada should've dealt with this residential school thing much earlier.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

Um.

I think people want to hear it, don't you think?

 

Residential schools are not 'news', was my point. Our inconsistent education system is a big part of the reason why some Canadians don't know much about it.
 

Canada should've dealt with this residential school thing much earlier.

We teach it basically from grade one, in one form or another, and have been for over a decade.  I agree about older generations however.

 

My point was that it's always been in the news, but people don't want to think that about our country, so they generally try and sweep it under the rug.  Of course it's amplified right now, they just started the search and recovery effort last month.

[Dazzle]

18 minutes ago, stawns said:

We teach it basically from grade one, in one form or another, and have been for over a decade.  I agree about older generations however.

 

My point was that it's always been in the news, but people don't want to think that about our country, so they generally try and sweep it under the rug.  Of course it's amplified right now, they just started the search and recovery effort last month.

That's not true at all. Given the reactions of people right now, they DO care, which goes against what you just said about them not caring.

It's not like these graves appeared out of nowhere. The timing of this - the search/recovery - could've been anytime. Why now?

 

Canada has a whole hasn't been open about how they treated the indigenous people. If they had been more open about it, then maybe people could've had more time to grieve. You say it's been in the press all this time, yet people "don't care". Wouldn't this mean that people won't care after this blows over, using your logic?

 

Anyway, I'm not really here to pick an argument over this. I think we're both in agreement that Canada did some bad things and they didn't deal with it well over these years. It seems we all have to pay the price now.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Dazzle

[Gurn]

30 minutes ago, stawns said:

There's been plenty of press about it, going back years, decades.  People just didn't want to hear it.  You're surprised that the media attention increases as the discoveries are made?  That's the definition of "news"..........as it's happening.

Most of this was known, and is being repeated.

Talking about  a lot of those graves would be like me going to 2 of Powell River's cemeteries, counting the graves and reporting the number on this site.

That would not mean that the town, health authorities and government did not know the number of graves, just that this site would know those numbers now.

"Unmarked" graves are in both of Powell River's cemeteries, doesn't mean they were not marked at one point in time, or counted or recorded.

 

Horrible, horrible stuff happened then, but to a lot of people this is not 'new' news, to others it is.

 

Sadly as I said in this thread 

Horrible news. 

I've spent time in Alert Bay, they had a residential school there for years. The brick building is now being used for other purposes, but the memories remain.

 

 

 

 

Now, is this the final catalyst that gets actual change going?

Do we the people rise up and not just demand change, but begin changing things?

The last decade or so, has seen a lot of organizations/businesses/governments do a lot of talking about the problems we have.

How many of them have actually done something?

The last decade or so, has seen "we" the people doing a lot of talking about the problems we have.

How many of us have actually done something?

 

Turned on the Blue Jay's game last week, MLB had all the teams wearing camouflage baseball caps to show support for the troops and veterans.

How many veterans are currently working for MLB? 

Canucks- orange out the exterior  of their building today; and for years have announced how they are privileged to play on the  "unceded" land of the local native groups.

How many indigenous employees do they have?

 

I'm in no way implying that giving jobs to people will make everything better; just trying to point out that society does an awful lot of symbolism, I'd like to see us actually doing something.

 

 

I wonder if this thread gets to 30 pages, or does it fade away?

A year from now what will be different?

Anything?

Will we be different? Will we even try to be ...............?"

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

NOTE- the thread this was originally posted made it to 3 pages.-

THere have been a few pages of talk about this in the "Lberals Form Minority" thread and now 5 pages in this thread.

 

The challenge remains, what are we going to actually do about this?

Edited July 3, 2021 by gurn

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Wouldn't this mean that people won't care after this blow over, using your logic?

As I mentioned in a post above this.

 

Caring, and doing something about it are different things.

Sadly.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

As I mentioned in a post above this.

 

Caring, and doing something about it are different things.

Sadly.

one could argue that if you do nothing, you don't really care that much. 

[Dazzle]

3 minutes ago, gurn said:

As I mentioned in a post above this.

 

Caring, and doing something about it are different things.

Sadly.

Yeah, I just read your lengthy post. Great points. Obviously these graves are not a new thing, but the discoveries of them are continuous developments. I must admit I didn't hear about the ones you mentioned in your posts, yet, as you correctly pointed out, little has been done to address it.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Dazzle

[Gurn]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

one could argue that if you do nothing, you don't really care that much. 

 

6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Yeah, I just read your lengthy post. Great points. Obviously these graves are not a new thing, but the discoveries of them are continuous developments. I must admit I didn't hear about the ones you mentioned in your posts, yet, as you correctly pointed out, little has been done to address it.

Unfortunately, imo, this will all get pushed back by more "current news" and other than platitudes from government and church and us "the people" I think not much will change.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

 

Unfortunately, imo, this will all get pushed back by more "current news" and other than platitudes from government and church and us "the people" I think not much will change.

the truth and reconciliation report is what, 6 years old now? 

[MeanSeanBean]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

one could argue that if you do nothing, you don't really care that much. 

This. Inaction can make you complicit. It's not enough to use the argument "well I didn't do that so I share no blame", my counter argument is what did you do to stop it from happening? It's not enough to just not push someone down, it's about helping them back up when they are down. That's what we need to be doing now. 

[Gurn]

Full disclosure I have not yet called my local MLA or MP, on this issue, to demand change or criminal charges where applicable. 

 

Who has?

 

I committ to doing so on Monday July 5th.

[Ghostsof1915]

I have to say, I won't complain about public schools when I was growing up again. 

At least they didn't try to break up my family.

And kids got to go home at the end of the day.

 

Horrific. So the Feds and the Provinces also looked a blind eye to this. Never had anyone checking out the schools, or testing to see if it was making kids lives better? Or that the kids were fed, and given a proper education? 

 

I find myself wondering how in the US, where entire tribes were wiped out, did they at least give money for education on Reserve lands? 

 

I just can't believe taking away children from families, and then being this barbaric to hushing things up and mass graves? 

Burning a church down isn't going to bring back the children either. 

 

This is a case where everyone failed. Children should never have to pay that price. 

 

 

[stawns]

56 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

That's not true at all. Given the reactions of people right now, they DO care, which goes against what you just said about them not caring.

It's not like these graves appeared out of nowhere. The timing of this - the search/recovery - could've been anytime. Why now?

 

Canada has a whole hasn't been open about how they treated the indigenous people. If they had been more open about it, then maybe people could've had more time to grieve. You say it's been in the press all this time, yet people "don't care". Wouldn't this mean that people won't care after this blows over, using your logic?

 

Anyway, I'm not really here to pick an argument over this. I think we're both in agreement that Canada did some bad things and they didn't deal with it well over these years. It seems we all have to pay the price now.

Harper refused to even acknowledge it and JT is planning for a fall election and wants to appear to be doing something about it.

 

Once it's off the front page, white people will go back to ignoring it

[Dazzle]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

Harper refused to even acknowledge it and JT is planning for a fall election and wants to appear to be doing something about it.

 

Once it's off the front page, white people will go back to ignoring it

I really hate to say this, but I agree with you. It just sucks because they're the ones showing outrage right now.

 

That being said, I think blaming white people (not saying you are doing that now), as some people are doing, is very counterproductive. The idea of race is a man-made concept, and seeing the comments directed to people about race and privilege does not promote healing. Rather, it divides people.

[UnkNuk]

5 hours ago, BPA said:

Every county has its warts and skeletons in the closet.  My hope is that there be some resolution (grants, funding, etc) to the atrocities that occurred.  Roll up the sleeves and make it better.  Not just lip service. Record this in history and make sure its taught in the schools. We need to learn from this so history will not repeat itself.  Move forward and heal together. 

 

Unlike the USA who is trying to bar teaching that slavery was a thing in the USA.

 

PS.  Think the church sucks.  Still haven't apologized (as far as I'm aware).

In regards to the Kamloops tragedy, Vancouver Archbishop Miller did make an apology:

 

***************************************************************************************************************************************

 

Vancouver Archbishop J. Michael Miller has issued a formal apology to First Nations in the wake of preliminary findings from a radar survey of the former Kamloops Indian Residential school that indicated that as many as 215 children could be buried on the site.

 

"I am writing to express my deep apology and profound condolences to the families and communities that have been devastated by this horrific news," Miller said in a statement Wednesday.

 

"Each time new evidence of a tragedy is revealed, or another victim comes forward, countless wounds are reopened, and I know that you experience renewed suffering."

In the statement, Miller said he reflected on an earlier apology he made in 2013 before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which he described as "words to which I remain committed and accountable."

 

He also said the archdiocese is committed to providing the archives and records related to all residential schools and urged other Catholic and government organizations to do the same.

 

He said the archdiocese has already provided records related to the former residential school in Kamloops to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and promised they would remain available for review.

 

Full story at:

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-archbishop-apologizes-indigenous-community-1.6051150

[Tortorella's Rant]

3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

I really hate to say this, but I agree with you. It just sucks because they're the ones showing outrage right now.

 

That being said, I think blaming white people (not saying you are doing that now), as some people are doing, is very counterproductive. The idea of race is a man-made concept, and seeing the comments directed to people about race and privilege does not promote healing. Rather, it divides people.

Extremely counterproductive. I'm in a local Facebook group and there were multiple threads about Canada Day festivities that blew up into a virtual race war with hundreds of comments after a handful of indigenous people decided to start calling white people colonizers, and criminals, and rapists, and murders. And yes, for the record, you can still be 'proud' of this country and condemn what has happened - it's not as if if you're for the former then you condone the latter - that fallacious horse $&!# needs to stop right now.

[Dazzle]

25 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

Extremely counterproductive. I'm in a local Facebook group and there were multiple threads about Canada Day festivities that blew up into a virtual race war with hundreds of comments after a handful of indigenous people decided to start calling white people colonizers, and criminals, and rapists, and murders. And yes, for the record, you can still be 'proud' of this country and condemn what has happened - it's not as if if you're for the former then you condone the latter - that fallacious horse $&!# needs to stop right now.

Yeah. It's really painful to see white people get targetted for this $&!#, and I'm not even white. This is stupid finger-pointing, and we'll likely never see the end of this type of behaviour until we all die. All of us die.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Dazzle

[JM_]

4 hours ago, shayster007 said:

This. Inaction can make you complicit. It's not enough to use the argument "well I didn't do that so I share no blame", my counter argument is what did you do to stop it from happening? It's not enough to just not push someone down, it's about helping them back up when they are down. That's what we need to be doing now. 

sometimes all you can do Is vote for a political party you hope does the right thing, or maybe a few bucks in a donation, but do something.