[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[AnthonyG]

3 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I don't think he went to a shutdown D because we WANTED him to be that. He did so because he just didn't have the ability any longer to drive play like he used to. But his extended stats showed he was not even capable of that last season, hence the buyout. I agree our goaltending has been suspect since his arrival, but even if you look at his stats individually compared to the other defenders, he was far from effective last year.

I was hopeful he might be fully recovered and play adequately for us instead of a buyout, but given that there are zero guarantees of that plus the fact we were so far over the cap, the buyout was a totally viable option.

QH clearly had that role locked up. Our PP got more shots through from the point with OEL than we did with Hughes. OEL knows how to get shots on net from the point. You cant have QH playing 27mins a night with most of the ozone time and then expect your 2nd pair to go out and have the same kind of ozone time. He was moved to a shutdown pair because nobody is taking Hughes from that role. 
 

Look at his stats the year prior, him and Myers were an ELITE shut down pair by every statistical category. Top 10 league wide.

 

What changed? Dpairs. 
Boudreau and co. Split Myers and OEL up, they diluted their dpairs, so instead of having 2 strong pairs, QH+Schenn and OEL+Myers, we had 1 good pair and what was assumed to be 2 decent pairs with OEL and Myers babysitting. 
 

19/82 goals against on OEL were low danger…. Nearly 25% of the goals against in all situations were bad goals.

 

 

Keep in mind zone distribution+icetime when looking at CORSI, SA, HDCA, MDCA etc.

 

If you really think ahout it, Huges spent a lot of time in the ozone, because that was his deployment. If say he and Bear had 10 mins of 5v5 ice time and 6.5 was in the ozone and 3.5 was in the dzone, but they are allowing just slightly less shots/chances against than say OEL and Brisebois who get more dzone distribution and their 10 mins of 5v5 TOI is the reverse of Hughes and Bear, who is really more of a liability? Who’s stats actually look worse?

 

Its hard to blame anyone on the blueline for this season when the worst stretch of goaltending combined for -55GSAA. Thats purely on the goalies. A goal a little more often than every other night, going in that shouldnt have. Hard to win games or shut down teams when even low danger attempts pose too high of a risk.
 

 

[VegasCanuck]

The optics on this trade is that it is up there with the Cam Neely to Boston trade as one of the worst in Canucks history.

 

That said, there is nothing we can do about it at this point but focus on the future of the team.

 

We can only state so many times, that we would have been better off keeping the pick and sitting on 3 bad contracts and either letting them expire or sending the to AHL for their duration. I get that Benning was trying to create rapid change and bring the team much faster to a competitive place, but it really backfired.

 

Sucks, but time to move on and focus on the team future and how to become a playoff team again, which I believe we have the pieces and depth to be this year.

 

[PhillipBlunt]

[Citizen Erased]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

Hi everybody.

 

I'am a scientist who has just completed a working time machine.

 

I couldn't wait to try it and my first visit is from 2021. 

 

I'm here to see a picture of OEL hoisting the cup for the Canucks.

 

Can someone direct me to the celebration page?

This is the funniest post I’ve read in a long time.

[Citizen Erased]

49 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Man, Ashton Kutcher really let his hair grow long and what’s with that moustache?

[kloubek]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

QH clearly had that role locked up. Our PP got more shots through from the point with OEL than we did with Hughes. OEL knows how to get shots on net from the point. You cant have QH playing 27mins a night with most of the ozone time and then expect your 2nd pair to go out and have the same kind of ozone time. He was moved to a shutdown pair because nobody is taking Hughes from that role. 
 

Look at his stats the year prior, him and Myers were an ELITE shut down pair by every statistical category. Top 10 league wide.

 

What changed? Dpairs. 
Boudreau and co. Split Myers and OEL up, they diluted their dpairs, so instead of having 2 strong pairs, QH+Schenn and OEL+Myers, we had 1 good pair and what was assumed to be 2 decent pairs with OEL and Myers babysitting. 
 

If you really think ahout it, Huges spent a lot of time in the ozone, because that was his deployment. If say he and Bear had 10 mins of 5v5 ice time and 6.5 was in the ozone and 3.5 was in the dzone, but they are allowing just slightly less shots/chances against than say OEL and Brisebois who get more dzone distribution and their 10 mins of 5v5 TOI is the reverse of Hughes and Bear, who is really more of a liability? Who’s stats actually look worse?

 

Its hard to blame anyone on the blueline for this season when the worst stretch of goaltending combined for -55GSAA. Thats purely on the goalies. A goal a little more often than every other night, going in that shouldnt have.

 

Not sure I completely agree. Clearly, Huggy is going to get as much ice time as he can handle, and will be the go-to 1LD 5 on 5 as well as the PP. If OEL was able to play nearly like he used to, he would have been played consistently on the 2PP unit and would have increased 5 on 5 time as well. It's the same reason we'll likely see a notable amount of Hronek this coming season, even though I doubt he will be paired with Hughes. I don't buy into the idea he never had opportunity. He did, but didn't fare well in the role.

 

Yes, he and Myers did a decent job the year prior together and I agree that splitting them up was a bad idea. I also agree that with substandard goaltending, this team had no chance. We just weren't good enough keeping the puck out of own end, and our breakouts were really poor. Hopefully with these adjustments that part has been largely solved. I also believe Demko is poised to have a much better season; I think his save % was around .90, which just isn't good enough for a starting goalie. Yes, I realize our D was bad so he's going to have more high danger scoring opportunities against him, but .90 still isn't good enough. I think he should have been sitting at .91 minimum under the circumstances, and behind a GOOD defense, that should rise to .92 or higher. I don't see .925 being unrealistic, and if he plays like we saw he is capable of, even .93 is possible... if not unlikely. That would put him near the top of the league, but isn't he supposed to be one of the better goalies in the NHL? Let's keep in mind that from 20-22, he was sitting at .915 and I don't think we can say our D was that much better and certainly IS notably better for this coming season.

[AnthonyG]

24 minutes ago, kloubek said:

Not sure I completely agree. Clearly, Huggy is going to get as much ice time as he can handle, and will be the go-to 1LD 5 on 5 as well as the PP. If OEL was able to play nearly like he used to, he would have been played consistently on the 2PP unit and would have increased 5 on 5 time as well. It's the same reason we'll likely see a notable amount of Hronek this coming season, even though I doubt he will be paired with Hughes. I don't buy into the idea he never had opportunity. He did, but didn't fare well in the role.

 

Yes, he and Myers did a decent job the year prior together and I agree that splitting them up was a bad idea. I also agree that with substandard goaltending, this team had no chance. We just weren't good enough keeping the puck out of own end, and our breakouts were really poor. Hopefully with these adjustments that part has been largely solved. I also believe Demko is poised to have a much better season; I think his save % was around .90, which just isn't good enough for a starting goalie. Yes, I realize our D was bad so he's going to have more high danger scoring opportunities against him, but .90 still isn't good enough. I think he should have been sitting at .91 minimum under the circumstances, and behind a GOOD defense, that should rise to .92 or higher. I don't see .925 being unrealistic, and if he plays like we saw he is capable of, even .93 is possible... if not unlikely. That would put him near the top of the league, but isn't he supposed to be one of the better goalies in the NHL? Let's keep in mind that from 20-22, he was sitting at .915 and I don't think we can say our D was that much better and certainly IS notably better for this coming season.

Yea but realistically how much TOI does PP #2 get? How much time/opportunity do they get to set up and create chances? They get the last 45 seconds of the PP at best, typically its the last 30 seconds with transition going up the ice or a faceoff at either end. That doesnt allow much time or opportunity to showcase much, yet PP #2 did look a little more deadly at times, with such little time to do so. They did create chances. 
Hughes had twice as much PP TOI in 2021-22

last season he had basically 4x more PP TOI.

320mins vs 84. Its not even remotely close… QH was on the ice for 43PPGF in 320, OEL was on the ice for 7PPGF in 84mins with far less sustained time. 
 

 

The major difference around the league, what separates great teams from good teams and good teams from bad teams, comes down to goaltending performance. 
People say oh well Demko stood on his head the year prior and got no help, the team left him out to dry and this team isnt that good. Umm…………..
Ullmark and Swayman combined for nearly 65GSAA!!!!????????? Almost Every team in the playoffs had a very respectable GSAA, where as the teams that squeaked in or were on the cusp had mediocre GSAA and of course teams well on the outside had horrendous GSAA. 
 

Boston’s historic run, was all because of goaltending. Yet no one here or anyhwere really, comments on just how insane their goalies were and how they covered up sooooo many blemishes. Everyone thinks Boston was absolutely perfect in every aspect of the game and elite defensively…. NOPE.

[dontaylorforprez]

4 hours ago, Strawbone said:

I know this isn't helping the thread but...

 

No doubt eh?

[VegasCanuck]

 

 

 

 

[Toews]

I concur with the folks that say that they are tired of this thread, normally I would be telling those same people that no is forcing them to click on this thread but yet here I am doing the same thing. I wish we could erase OEL's existence from our collective psyche, maybe do the same for Benning as well. 

[dougieL]

14 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I can't believe I actually thought this was a decent trade when it happened. What an absolute waste of time and resources it truly was. 

Don't feel too bad. There are people who still think OEL is a more well-rounded player than Hughes, or that OEL was not a problem this past season, going so far as to ridicule someone who suggested the prospect of an OEL buyout 

[PhillipBlunt]

16 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Don't feel too bad. There are people who still think OEL is a more well-rounded player than Hughes, or that OEL was not a problem this past season, going so far as to ridicule someone who suggested the prospect of an OEL buyout 

Those people are f**king wack

[dougieL]

14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Oh hey, we're still doing this?

damn.

 

Don't forget that we're only 2 years into the decade-long period of OEL being deadweight on our books.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, dougieL said:

Don't forget that we're only 2 years into the decade-long period of OEL being deadweight on our books.

I'm sure folks in their 40's, will tell their grandkids about how much this set us back.   This deal won't die the same way, and really no fault to Barry Pederson, injury luck and all, is infamously tied to the Neely trade.   Neely would have made a great Canuck!  Imagine him with Linden and Bure.   And most likely he wouldn't have been knee hunted by the Samuellson.   Different conference.   Instead he'd of had to deal with Marchment, but his career would have lasted a lot longer likely.   Quins and Burke's sort of guy (Burke being Quins right hand man at the time of course!). 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm sure folks in their 40's, will tell their grandkids about how much this set us back.   This deal won't die the same way, and really no fault to Barry Pederson, injury luck and all, is infamously tied to the Neely trade.   Neely would have made a great Canuck!  Imagine him with Linden and Bure.   And most likely he wouldn't have been knee hunted by the Samuellson.   Different conference.   Instead he'd of had to deal with Marchment, but his career would have lasted a lot longer likely.   Quins and Burke's sort of guy (Burke being Quins right hand man at the time of course!). 

Imagine if we keep Neely and Quinn drafts Jagr instead of Nedved. We win two or three Cups in the med 90’s. 

[Gurn]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Imagine if we keep Neely and Quinn drafts Jagr instead of Nedved. We win two or three Cups in the med 90’s. 

Jagr would have stayed in Europe.

Better off to take Nedved, play him a couple of years and then trade him, like they did; than to get no games played by Jagr.

[Warhippy]

On 7/23/2021 at 1:45 PM, CanuckGAME said:

Anyone who says OEL sucks doesnt know jack **** about hockey

[Alflives]

17 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Jagr would have stayed in Europe.

Better off to take Nedved, play him a couple of years and then trade him, like they did; than to get no games played by Jagr.

No he wouldn’t. Guys, who see themselves as great, want to prove their greatness. Jagr would have played here and we would for sure have had a couple Cup parades. Quinn was great but missing on Jagr was a huge mistake. 

[Warhippy]

On 7/23/2021 at 1:55 PM, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

 

Rutherford/Allvin:  They're carrying how much?  For how long?

 

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

No he wouldn’t. Guys, who see themselves as great, want to prove their greatness. Jagr would have played here and we would for sure have had a couple Cup parades. Quinn was great but missing on Jagr was a huge mistake. 

Nope-he would have stayed in Europe- he was only coming to play with Mario.