Coyotes lose vote for new arena - future unclear

[MaxVerstappen33]

This is awesome. Another fire that Bettman couldn't put out. 

 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

1 hour ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

Same wise-ass BS that was said about Winnipeg until a week before they got a team. 

[mll]

26 minutes ago, Provost said:

I think they will want to shut this mess down as quickly as possible.

 

It would be an open wound and constant embarrassment to have a lame duck team spend the next several years playing in a college arena when there is no viable plan to have a new facility built.

Would think they'd want to avoid rushing into a project and it failing also - that would just amplify the embarrassment.  I do think they'll move forward resolutely towards finding a new solution but not sure that they'll rush into any solution.  Would speed really be more desirable if the outlook is less interesting than another one that is a bit further away.  

 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, mll said:

Don't see them waiting 3 years.  They will move towards a new project but it doesn't have to be for this coming season.  They might want to get Meruelo to sell to a new ownership group and that can take time.  Owners need to be vetted.  They need to understand all the financial consequences of the markets under consideration.  Say if 1 project is ready now but the long term outlook is not as interesting as another project that is say 2 years away - would expect them to go for the latter.  

 

Knowing the way Bettman works I’m assuming they already have a contingency plan in place which includes where to move the team. And most likely they have new owners already lined up. 
 

They might need one more year but I doubt they drag this out longer than that. Most likely they will move the team to a city with a built arena in place. There are only a few options. I don’t think they will go to Canada. They want a team in the western conference. Houston is the #1 option IMO. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

1 hour ago, flat land fish said:

For sure corporate sponsorship and small tv market make it a fantasy.  Temporary home would be interesting.

Saskatoon is not a fantasy. Would be it perfect ? No. But there's lots of franchises in this league that are very far from perfect , that lose money all the time , and have bad attendance. With any franchises , there is different locations and markets that serve different purposes.

 

Bettman is arrogant and he flies too close to the sun. He put out 2 expansion teams while having an absolute tire fire going at the same time. They already did 2 new big market teams. Maybe it's time for a smaller low maintenance one again (don't bring up the Jets fear porn nonsense)

Edited May 17, 2023 by MaxVerstappen33

[Kevin Biestra]

43 minutes ago, McBackup said:

Whether or not Gordie Howe played for them has no bearing on it not being a minor league identity. Besides that’s irrelevant to my point. Seattle went with Kraken, not Totems or Metropolitans. Vegas went with Golden Knights not Wranglers or Thunder. If Houston gets them I imagine they would want to forge something brand new. They can still honour the Aeros without being the Aeros.

 

The WHA was considered the major leagues.  The Aeros themselves were the only WHA champion team that didn't actually join the NHL as is in 1979.

[Kevin Biestra]

56 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gordie Howe played for the Houston Aeros.  That is not minor league.  Even Gretzky played against the Aeros.  I would definitely keep the name but change the logo and jersey to modern standards...

 

Also, they could do what Seattle did and hang two championship banners up from the WHA and also retire Gordie Howe's number 9 and hang it in the rafters.  Would be a great marketing ploy for the NHL...

 

I would do the Aeros / Gordie Howe / banners thing.  But I think the Vancouver Millionaires should have a banner in the arena.

[McBackup]

13 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The WHA was considered the major leagues.  The Aeros themselves were the only WHA champion team that didn't actually join the NHL as is in 1979.

And the Aeros name has been subsumed by the IHL and AHL teams as well. The WHA was a clear second fiddle to the NHL, whether you want to consider that minor or major league is a technicality and missing the point I was trying to make. New expansion teams want to create their own identity, and be their own thing. The only exception is the Senators, and that’s because that team pitifully pretends to be the same one that won a bunch of cups before the invention of the wheel. 

[24K PureCool]

30 minutes ago, mll said:

Would think they'd want to avoid rushing into a project and it failing also - that would just amplify the embarrassment.  I do think they'll move forward resolutely towards finding a new solution but not sure that they'll rush into any solution.  Would speed really be more desirable if the outlook is less interesting than another one that is a bit further away.  

 

They aren't starting the whole process like tonight. Things were more than likely in the works way before the vote tonight.

These leagues pretty much have done regular market studies and already have a list of viable markets and potential ownership.

That is how large business work. There is a contingency plan for everything that can be expected and this is way out in the radar.

 

Now it is a matter of nailing down the fine details and interests. Fact of the matter is we already have example of this exact situation with Winnipeg. The nhl already have a list and went about it. No difference here.

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

They will move cause there is a willing buyer and arena ready in Quebec City. That is Bettman's last choice but still a choice better than staying in a quagmire in ASU. 

 

Only way they stay is if a new owner asked to wait a year for renovations to get their arena nhl ready. 

Detroit, and Columbus will not move to the Western Conference. And Quebec will not get a team that plays in the Western Conference. And the NHL will not

have a conference with one extra team, and one less team. So it's not going to happen. However, if Columbus continues to struggle. And if attendance cratered.
I can see a scenario that Columbus moves to Quebec City. That would be the only way Quebec gets a team.

 

As The Hockey Guy pointed out. It seems almost like it was a backup plan, that Arizona is playing in the Central division. If Houston or Kansas City is the destination.

It would make sense for both cities being in the central division.

[Coconuts]

Fantastic news. One could argue that Phoenix/Arizona never had the sustained success necessary to build a fanbase but they've also had more than enough time to give it a go in the desert. I feel for Coyotes fans but it's long past time. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Boy I wish the NBA supported the Vancouver Grizzlies the way Gary supports the Coyotes.

[mll]

43 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Knowing the way Bettman works I’m assuming they already have a contingency plan in place which includes where to move the team. And most likely they have new owners already lined up. 
 

They might need one more year but I doubt they drag this out longer than that. Most likely they will move the team to a city with a built arena in place. There are only a few options. I don’t think they will go to Canada. They want a team in the western conference. Houston is the #1 option IMO. 

Houston also my guess.  They certainly have a contingency plan and have likely already narrowed down the list of options.  Don't think they'd want a place without a location definitely secured - ie no more at the mercy of politics/public voting, so already built arena seems likely. 

 

[24K PureCool]

8 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Detroit, and Columbus will not move to the Western Conference. And Quebec will not get a team that plays in the Western Conference. And the NHL will not

have a conference with one extra team, and one less team. So it's not going to happen. However, if Columbus continues to struggle. And if attendance cratered.
I can see a scenario that Columbus moves to Quebec City. That would be the only way Quebec gets a team.

 

As The Hockey Guy pointed out. It seems almost like it was a backup plan, that Arizona is playing in the Central division. If Houston or Kansas City is the destination.

It would make sense for both cities being in the central division.

Do you guys don't understand the meaning of dead last choice?

[nuckin_futz]

100% the Yotes are moving to Houston.

 

These are the top US TV markets.

• New York (#1)
• Los Angeles (#2)
• Chicago (#3)
• Philadelphia (#4)
• Dallas-Fort Worth (#5)
• Atlanta (#6)
• Houston (#7)
• Washington, D.C. (Hagerstown) (#8)
• Boston (Manchester) (#9)
• San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose (#10)
• Phoenix (Prescott) (#11)
• Seattle-Tacoma (#12)
• Tampa-St. Petersburg (Sarasota) (#13)
• Detroit (#14)
• Minneapolis-St. Paul (#15)
• Denver (#16)
• Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne (#17)
• Miami-Fort Lauderdale (#18)

Atlanta just doesn't work. So if you're leaving the 11th largest market, you're going to the 7th largest market. Plus hockey works in Dallas so why wouldn't it work in Houston? The Houston Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta has a net worth of 8.2 Billion dollars.

 

Forbes lists the Coyotes value at $450 Million. Now consider this is pretty much a fire sale so Fertitta can easily swing this and probably make himself a ton of money within 5-10 years and he's 65 years old so he has time to wait it out.

Edited May 17, 2023 by nuckin_futz

[24K PureCool]

2 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

100% the Yotes are moving to Houston.

 

These are the top US TV markets.

• New York (#1)
• Los Angeles (#2)
• Chicago (#3)
• Philadelphia (#4)
• Dallas-Fort Worth (#5)
• Atlanta (#6)
• Houston (#7)
• Washington, D.C. (Hagerstown) (#8)
• Boston (Manchester) (#9)
• San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose (#10)
• Phoenix (Prescott) (#11)
• Seattle-Tacoma (#12)
• Tampa-St. Petersburg (Sarasota) (#13)
• Detroit (#14)
• Minneapolis-St. Paul (#15)
• Denver (#16)
• Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne (#17)
• Miami-Fort Lauderdale (#18)

Atlanta just doesn't work. So if you're leaving the 11th largest market, you're going to the 7th largest market. Plus hockey works in Dallas so why wouldn't it work in Houston? The Houston Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta has a net worth of 8.2 Billion dollars.

 

Forbes lists the Coyotes value at $450 Million. Now consider this is pretty much a fire sale so Fertitta can easily swing this and probably make himself a ton of money within 5-10 years and he's 65 years old so he has time to wait it out.

Yep, just went back and saw Tilman Fertitta tried to bid for an expansion against Seattle/Vegas.

The Coyotes definitely moving there barring legal issues.

[McBackup]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Fantastic news. One could argue that Phoenix/Arizona never had the sustained success necessary to build a fanbase but they've also had more than enough time to give it a go in the desert. I feel for Coyotes fans but it's long past time. 

Yeah its obviously time for the experiment to end, but I don't understand some of the gloating towards Coyotes fans I've seen online. Just because there aren't a lot of them doesn't mean the fans they do have care any less than you or I do for the Canucks. Their team is leaving and that feeling has to absolutely suck. 

[Rubik]

3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

100% the Yotes are moving to Houston.

 

I think the league wants to save Houston for a potential expansion. They would get much more money from the expansion fee.

[McBackup]

3 minutes ago, Rubik said:

 

I think the league wants to save Houston for a potential expansion. They would get much more money from the expansion fee.

I don't know if they operate on that principle. They've said they're not looking to expand at the moment. They have a team that is an absolute money pit and now unequivocally needs a new home. They have a massive market that ostensibly wants a team. It doesn't make a lot of sense to leave them in the lurch for a less appealing one because they hypothetically could get a big expansion fee from them at some indeterminate time in the future, when they could draw a large fee from wherever they expand to regardless.

Edited May 17, 2023 by McBackup

[nuckin_futz]

3 minutes ago, Rubik said:

 

I think the league wants to save Houston for a potential expansion. They would get much more money from the expansion fee.

The Coyotes are by far the biggest blemish on Bettman's legacy. This is a problem he's going to want to solve in a hurry and there's a tailor made solution waiting for him.