Coyotes lose vote for new arena - future unclear

[IBatch]

Have to say, losing a deal that was supposedly a sure thing ... that market just kind of spoke for themselves didn't it?   To remove a dump too!    A 70 year old dump.   Think it's pretty clear that the time has come to pull the plug.   They won't have a new arena deal built by the time  their lease is up in the college, and that was done only because the Tempe proposal seemed like a slam dunk.  Houston or Utah is where they will move.   US TV deals are just something Quebec City can't ever compete with.    Imagine been told you have to have an arena even to be considered, then with the help of tax payers build a state of the art one ... and then the league expands in Vegas and Seattle lol.     Quebec's only hope is another floundering market like Raleigh for years until they got better and started using gimmicks to attract fans, or Florida who just now seems to finally be getting some sellouts,  when the sizzle goes away will the fans remain in the regular season?   Florida has long been supported by Canadian snow birds wanting a cheap game.    Not a money maker, the league also needs to stop expanding, at this point if a market or partner is floundering so poorly (ARI for sure ... like how do the owners feel about giving up their ticket sales year after year to subsidize this?), find a multi-billionaire in a different market.    Talent levels are finally catching up with expansion.   I've been a strong proponent of making the league smaller.    The product was better with 21-24 teams.   

Edited June 5, 2023 by IBatch

[Boudrias]

57 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Have to say, losing a deal that was supposedly a sure thing ... that market just kind of spoke for themselves didn't it?   To remove a dump too!    A 70 year old dump.   Think it's pretty clear that the time has come to pull the plug.   They won't have a new arena deal built by the time  their lease is up in the college, and that was done only because the Tempe proposal seemed like a slam dunk.  Houston or Utah is where they will move.   US TV deals are just something Quebec City can't ever compete with.    Imagine been told you have to have an arena even to be considered, then with the help of tax payers build a state of the art one ... and then the league expands in Vegas and Seattle lol.     Quebec's only hope is another floundering market like Raleigh for years until they got better and started using gimmicks to attract fans, or Florida who just now seems to finally be getting some sellouts,  when the sizzle goes away will the fans remain in the regular season?   Florida has long been supported by Canadian snow birds wanting a cheap game.    Not a money maker, the league also needs to stop expanding, at this point if a market or partner is floundering so poorly (ARI for sure ... like how do the owners feel about giving up their ticket sales year after year to subsidize this?), find a multi-billionaire in a different market.    Talent levels are finally catching up with expansion.   I've been a strong proponent of making the league smaller.    The product was better with 21-24 teams.   

To many fans seem to think that gate receipts are the status quo of long term NHL viability. I don't see that at all. The USA TV deal of two years ago confirms that. Quebec isn't even in the discussion. The only Canadian city that will happen in Canada is the GTA. A franchise there will likely bring $1.5 billion. Of course Gary Bettman wanted to stay in Arizona. It is a Tier 1 media market in the USA, that is what he is committing to USA TV media. I had to laugh when Utah was mentioned to him in the HNIC interview. Bettman was smiling and talking great things about the possible ownership and the NBA connection. Talk about a perfect segway away from Pheonix. He gets a deep pockets owner into a Tier 2 USA market and escapes losing a $1.5 billion franchise fee for Houston, Atlanta or maybe Kansas City. 

 

From a business perspective the success of Seattle and even Vegas should not be ignored by fans. Their success is setting the groundwork for another NHL expansion into major USA markets. Broadcasting wants the content and their success reduces the investment risk. Franchise fees go to ownership and not to the NHLPA. I see expansion again within 5 years.

 

The NHL is a nice add on for properties, especially the NBA, and is a cheaper content option as the NFL, MLB and the NBA locations mature out. Bettman will retire as the best business commissioner the NHL has had. Some of that success is circumstance but Bettman has been steady on the tiller.   

Edited June 5, 2023 by Boudrias

[IBatch]

Agree with the SN article on the embarrassing shameful optics playing in a college arena is for the best hockey league in the world.    Players don't want to stay, Chychrun wanted out for two years, now rumblings of Keller being unhappy and others too.    Keeping players is going to be tougher than any other franchise, including WNP,  at least it is looking like that now.    They have some time because they need a rebuild (again ... that's also kind of followed the storyline of that franchise, for a decade plus now).   And have an impressive amount of picks, prospects and enviable cap space.     Personally think they should have left a long time ago.    It's a comedy of errors considering it's one of the biggest cities in North America.   If it can work in Dallas, it should work there right?   Meanwhile relative tiny markets like WNP and OTT have sold out enough, win lose or draw or a modicum of their own drama's.   Nords is but a pipe dream now ... but so was WNP at one point too.    But think that's just never going to happen.   Which is truly too bad.    Nords/MTL was either the first or second best rivalry in the 80's, and those around for it, well like the AVs/Wings one in the 90's you just can't forget it.      

 

Hoped ARI would be re-located to Quebec after they made their awesome arena which mostly just collects dust for a decade plus.    But have come to accept it won't happen.   Passed over twice.    With more and more Canadian born players fine with going to US markets to make more money and avoid the fishbowl (no taxes in ARI is their only real competitive advantage, but they know they only have so many years, and wasting 1/4 or 1/8 or 1/2 of them in this gong show ... it's not something they want to do),  Utah and Houston also offer the same thing as ARI without the stupid. 

[johngould21]

14 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

To many fans seem to think that gate receipts are the status quo of long term NHL viability. I don't see that at all. The USA TV deal of tow years ago confirms that. Quebec isn't even in the discussion. The only Canadian city that will happen in Canada is the GTA. A franchise there will likely bring $1.5 billion. Of course Gary Bettman wanted to stay in Arizona. It is a Tier 1 media market in the USA, that is what he is committing to USA TV media. I had to laugh when Utah was mentioned to him in the HNIC interview. Bettman was smiling and talking great things about the possible ownership and the NBA connection. Talk about a perfect segway away from Pheonix. He gets a deep pockets owner into a Tier 2 USA market and escapes losing a $1.5 billion franchise fee for Houston, Atlanta or maybe Kansas City. 

 

From a business perspective the success of Seattle and even Vegas should not be ignored by fans. Their success is setting the groundwork for another NHL expansion into major USA markets. Broadcasting wants the content and their success reduces the investment risk. Franchise fees go to ownership and not to the NHLPA. I see expansion again within 5 years.    

I guess the voting public in that market haven't gotten that memo for the past what, 30 years? Until an owner with deep pockets builds his own complex in that market, this debacle is going on for years. It was mentioned above that players are growing sour of situation. If true, that's not a good look on the league. Taxes be damned. Relocate to another market until this is settled. Arena or no arena. If it gets turned down again, get out once and for all. When I see more Canuck, Flame, Oiler, Leaf or whatever teams jerseys in the stands at the Glendale complex you know hockey isn't a thing on the desert.

The Canuck players get paid in US$, converted into Canadian money they're adding a third of their salary to their contract. I doubt it's the killer for FA's that most on this board are moaning about. IF it was, would Daniel and Henrik not have gone back to Sweden when they retired?

[Boudrias]

19 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

I guess the voting public in that market haven't gotten that memo for the past what, 30 years? Until an owner with deep pockets builds his own complex in that market, this debacle is going on for years. It was mentioned above that players are growing sour of situation. If true, that's not a good look on the league. Taxes be damned. Relocate to another market until this is settled. Arena or no arena. If it gets turned down again, get out once and for all. When I see more Canuck, Flame, Oiler, Leaf or whatever teams jerseys in the stands at the Glendale complex you know hockey isn't a thing on the desert.

The Canuck players get paid in US$, converted into Canadian money they're adding a third of their salary to their contract. I doubt it's the killer for FA's that most on this board are moaning about. IF it was, would Daniel and Henrik not have gone back to Sweden when they retired?

No argument that Arizona is probably moved. That is why I smiled when Bettman got excited about a possible Salt Lake City, Utah interest. It would get the NHL off the hot seat without having to sacrifice a major market. Utah might not be a major market but the ownership has deep pockets and a NBA franchise. As I said Bettman couldn't stop smiling as he admitted that they had already had talks with Utah. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

No argument that Arizona is probably moved. That is why I smiled when Bettman got excited about a possible Salt Lake City, Utah interest. It would get the NHL off the hot seat without having to sacrifice a major market. Utah might not be a major market but the ownership has deep pockets and a NBA franchise. As I said Bettman couldn't stop smiling as he admitted that they had already had talks with Utah. 

True, but how much will the league have to eat for a sale to a city they prefer over QC? Meurello is going to want maximum dollar. Will the other owners pony up the difference? How will recent expansion team Seattle like paying 650 while the new owner in Salt Lake or Huston get their club for half that and the Seattle owners are paying for that to happen? 

[Boudrias]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True, but how much will the league have to eat for a sale to a city they prefer over QC? Meurello is going to want maximum dollar. Will the other owners pony up the difference? How will recent expansion team Seattle like paying 650 while the new owner in Salt Lake or Huston get their club for half that and the Seattle owners are paying for that to happen? 

How are the Seattle owners on the hook for anything Alf? It is the Arizona ownership group that is in trouble. It is their equity that is at risk. They are the ones that need NHL approval to move the franchise. Their options are to try and find another location in Pheonix for an arena or sell the team to a NHL approved city. I am not saying that Utah will be the only option but I suspect Bettman will not give up a prime new franchise location to such a relocation by Arizona. It does not make sense for them. I think QC is out of the question because it has almost no media draw outside of Quebec. On a list of options ofr the NHL QC is at the bottom. 

[Ghostsof1915]

On 6/1/2023 at 3:46 PM, cripplereh said:

I can only say this.

 

Move them to Quebec.

 

They would trade Keller and who ever they can.Rebuild properly and 4 years be a competitive team.

 

They would sell out till that happens.

 

Why doesn't Bettyman see this?

I don't know how many times this has to be explained. And trust me I'd like to see a team in Quebec.

 

You can't take  a team from the West and put in in the Eastern Conference. None of the Eastern teams will want to move into the Central Division.

 

So they will not move them to Quebec. (Detroit and Columbus's ownership's have stated they will NOT play in the West)

 

So the only other way is the Senators move to Houston or Utah, and the Coyotes go to Quebec City. Where to be honest you might as well move the Coyotes to Utah or Houston, and move the Senators to Quebec City.

 

They will not unbalance the conferences just have a team in Quebec City.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

How are the Seattle owners on the hook for anything Alf? It is the Arizona ownership group that is in trouble. It is their equity that is at risk. They are the ones that need NHL approval to move the franchise. Their options are to try and find another location in Pheonix for an arena or sell the team to a NHL approved city. I am not saying that Utah will be the only option but I suspect Bettman will not give up a prime new franchise location to such a relocation by Arizona. It does not make sense for them. I think QC is out of the question because it has almost no media draw outside of Quebec. On a list of options ofr the NHL QC is at the bottom. 

The NHL is a collection of owners. If Meurello sells he will choose the best bid. The league wants him to sell to Salt Lake or Huston or Atlanta. But those buyers will want a deal. So their offers will very likely be a lot less than what QC is willing to pay. The league owners, if they want the club in one of Betman's three preferred US cities will need to pony up the difference to make the deal. Seattle will be one of the clubs paying to have Meurello get as much from (let's say) Huston than he would get from QC. And that difference will very likely be substantial - 300 million at least. So Seattle share will be around 10 mil. This whole Coyotes' debaucle will end up in court. The league will try to force Meurello to sell to their choice and Meurello will fight to choose his buyer. The settlement will be out of court where the league owners agree to pay off Meurello with the lost money he would get from QC.

[Boudrias]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The NHL is a collection of owners. If Meurello sells he will choose the best bid. The league wants him to sell to Salt Lake or Huston or Atlanta. But those buyers will want a deal. So their offers will very likely be a lot less than what QC is willing to pay. The league owners, if they want the club in one of Betman's three preferred US cities will need to pony up the difference to make the deal. Seattle will be one of the clubs paying to have Meurello get as much from (let's say) Huston than he would get from QC. And that difference will very likely be substantial - 300 million at least. So Seattle share will be around 10 mil. This whole Coyotes' debaucle will end up in court. The league will try to force Meurello to sell to their choice and Meurello will fight to choose his buyer. The settlement will be out of court where the league owners agree to pay off Meurello with the lost money he would get from QC.

Yes, the owners control Bettman. But Arizona cannot accept a bid to move the team without NHL approval. I just don't think that the NHL and its owners will move Arizona into a highly profitable expansion city. Why would they give that payday up to benefit the Arizona ownership group? To me that means Houston, Atlanta and even Kansas City are off the table.  

[cripplereh]

If they move to QC as I said,then two more team get expansion teams.They do not need to balance teams east and west,but will try.

 

QC would be one and only place to take them as Ottawa will stay there and not move.

 

Quebec will take the three years of a rebuild and then start the next two years acquiring ufas to try and win a cup by year 5 and on.

[Ghostsof1915]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/connecticut-governor-has-group-interested-in-buying-coyotes-moving-team-to-hartford/

 

I'm starting to get the feeling the reason why the Ottawa ownership bid is taking so long, is the league is probably secretly trying to get new ownership to move to Quebec City or Hartford.

 

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[johngould21]

6 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

To get more butts in the seats, we are planning on using folding chairs around the concourse of the Mullet.

[Chickenspear]

11 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Making progress on a move to Houston?

[mll]

The latest on NHL.com

Coyotes discussing 6 sites for arena in East Valley

Confident they'll have plan to present to NHL by Jan. 1 after voters didn't approve Tempe proposal

NASHVILLE -- The Arizona Coyotes are discussing a new arena at six sites in the East Valley and confident they will have a plan to present to the NHL by Jan. 1, president Xavier Gutierrez said Wednesday.

Gutierrez said the Coyotes have the same vision they had in Tempe but they want to avoid a public referendum after voters did not approve the proposed Tempe Sports and Entertainment district May 16.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman has said the League expects a plan by Jan. 1, but Gutierrez said NHL officials have not given the Coyotes a hard deadline.

"We have been in constant communication with them about all of the options that we have," Gutierrez said before the first round of the 2023 Upper Deck NHL Draft at Bridgestone Arena. "They feel very confident that we're doing the right things.

"We've told them that one of the things we want to avoid is a public referendum, and everything that we're looking at is to hopefully have this be something that would avoid that."

The Tempe proposal was a privately funded $2.1 billion project with a 16,000-seat arena, a practice rink, two hotels, retail shops, 1,600 apartments, a theater and a sportsbook. It would have required a year of remediation to replace an unlined landfill next to Tempe Town Lake.

"We still want to put our money where our mouth is and build something that will be best in class, and finally, to all the fans, we are committed to making this happen," Gutierrez said.

"We were disappointed with the vote in Tempe, but we turned the page very quickly. We reengaged with multiple sites that we had talked to beforehand, and we feel quite confident that one of these many sites that we've put into play will come to fruition in the timeline that we've mentioned."

The Coyotes played at Gila River Arena in Glendale, Arizona, on the west side of the Phoenix area from 2003 until the city ended its lease with the team after the 2021-22 season. It is currently playing temporarily at Mullett Arena at Arizona State University in Tempe.

Gutierrez said the Coyotes have spoken to more than 12 sites and are in the final stages of discussions with six sites in the East Valley, which is the home of most of their season ticket holders and corporate partners and is also the heart of most of the population and corporate growth in the area.

"Quite frankly," Gutierrez said, "it's where a business like ours should be located."

Gutierrez said the Coyotes want to do what they planned to in Tempe, but they could do even more in the same amount of time. Some of the sites offer more than the 48 acres the Tempe site did, and none requires the year of remediation the Tempe site would have.

"What you guys saw in terms of the renderings, that's still our vision," Gutierrez said. "That's still the vision. It's not just an arena. It's a practice facility, theater, entertainment, retail. The vision is still to have all of those uses, No. 1.

"No. 2, the visuals we thought were spectacular, and the sites that we're looking at actually are probably even more compelling for that type of a setting."

Gutierrez said the Coyotes could present the NHL a plan with multiple sites.

"It could say, 'Hey, we have these options. This is what needs to happen in order for us to get it finalized and resolved,'" Gutierrez said. "One of the things we don't want is to put ourselves in a situation where we have one solution, and that's why we're putting multiple options on the table."

Does Gutierrez think that would be enough to satisfy the NHL?

"Well, I think what they want to see is, they want to see a result, just like we do," Gutierrez said.

Gutierrez said the Coyotes are looking at public, private and tribal land.

"In Arizona, municipal acts are subject to referendum," Gutierrez said. "What we're looking at is opportunities where we wouldn't face that type of public vote. There may be other administrative oversight that needs to happen when you're talking about land use or what have you, but our goal is to try to get to a straight line and have resolution as quickly as possible. …

"No one wants to resolve this more than we do. The uncertainty is not good for us, either, and we are doing everything we can to create a certainty."

 

[johngould21]

4 hours ago, mll said:

The latest on NHL.com

Coyotes discussing 6 sites for arena in East Valley

Confident they'll have plan to present to NHL by Jan. 1 after voters didn't approve Tempe proposal

NASHVILLE -- The Arizona Coyotes are discussing a new arena at six sites in the East Valley and confident they will have a plan to present to the NHL by Jan. 1, president Xavier Gutierrez said Wednesday.

Gutierrez said the Coyotes have the same vision they had in Tempe but they want to avoid a public referendum after voters did not approve the proposed Tempe Sports and Entertainment district May 16.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman has said the League expects a plan by Jan. 1, but Gutierrez said NHL officials have not given the Coyotes a hard deadline.

"We have been in constant communication with them about all of the options that we have," Gutierrez said before the first round of the 2023 Upper Deck NHL Draft at Bridgestone Arena. "They feel very confident that we're doing the right things.

"We've told them that one of the things we want to avoid is a public referendum, and everything that we're looking at is to hopefully have this be something that would avoid that."

The Tempe proposal was a privately funded $2.1 billion project with a 16,000-seat arena, a practice rink, two hotels, retail shops, 1,600 apartments, a theater and a sportsbook. It would have required a year of remediation to replace an unlined landfill next to Tempe Town Lake.

"We still want to put our money where our mouth is and build something that will be best in class, and finally, to all the fans, we are committed to making this happen," Gutierrez said.

"We were disappointed with the vote in Tempe, but we turned the page very quickly. We reengaged with multiple sites that we had talked to beforehand, and we feel quite confident that one of these many sites that we've put into play will come to fruition in the timeline that we've mentioned."

The Coyotes played at Gila River Arena in Glendale, Arizona, on the west side of the Phoenix area from 2003 until the city ended its lease with the team after the 2021-22 season. It is currently playing temporarily at Mullett Arena at Arizona State University in Tempe.

Gutierrez said the Coyotes have spoken to more than 12 sites and are in the final stages of discussions with six sites in the East Valley, which is the home of most of their season ticket holders and corporate partners and is also the heart of most of the population and corporate growth in the area.

"Quite frankly," Gutierrez said, "it's where a business like ours should be located."

Gutierrez said the Coyotes want to do what they planned to in Tempe, but they could do even more in the same amount of time. Some of the sites offer more than the 48 acres the Tempe site did, and none requires the year of remediation the Tempe site would have.

"What you guys saw in terms of the renderings, that's still our vision," Gutierrez said. "That's still the vision. It's not just an arena. It's a practice facility, theater, entertainment, retail. The vision is still to have all of those uses, No. 1.

"No. 2, the visuals we thought were spectacular, and the sites that we're looking at actually are probably even more compelling for that type of a setting."

Gutierrez said the Coyotes could present the NHL a plan with multiple sites.

"It could say, 'Hey, we have these options. This is what needs to happen in order for us to get it finalized and resolved,'" Gutierrez said. "One of the things we don't want is to put ourselves in a situation where we have one solution, and that's why we're putting multiple options on the table."

Does Gutierrez think that would be enough to satisfy the NHL?

"Well, I think what they want to see is, they want to see a result, just like we do," Gutierrez said.

Gutierrez said the Coyotes are looking at public, private and tribal land.

"In Arizona, municipal acts are subject to referendum," Gutierrez said. "What we're looking at is opportunities where we wouldn't face that type of public vote. There may be other administrative oversight that needs to happen when you're talking about land use or what have you, but our goal is to try to get to a straight line and have resolution as quickly as possible. …

"No one wants to resolve this more than we do. The uncertainty is not good for us, either, and we are doing everything we can to create a certainty."

 

The best plan for this ownership group would be to walk off into the sunset in their cheezy burgundy suits. Good grief, what a shit show.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Gnarcore]

[Ghostsof1915]

Move to Kansas City.

Bring back the Scouts!