tas Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 23 hours ago, aGENT said: McAvoy, Werenski, Sergachev... All at, or slightly under $5m on a 3 year bridge. I have no idea why so many think we'll be paying him, $6m, $7m+ on a short bridge deal. because like it or not, and defensive "flaws" notwithstanding (an undersized offensive d-man playing in a matchup role in his first 2 years in the league ... yeah, huge flaws there ...), a 60-65 point defenseman is worth a lot more than a 35-45 point defenceman. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/17/2021 at 11:18 AM, CanadianRugby said: Teams already have kinda figured it out, at least Vegas did. Pressure him as soon as he gets the puck so he doesn't have space to do his thing. Hopefully he improves overall, and a legit top pairing guy to play with (so, not OEL) wouldn't let teams just skate at him and leave his partner open. this only works when your forwards aren't doing their jobs, backchecking hard and providing outlets for the transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Since nhl agents generally get 3-5% of the salary awarded (which obviously comes out of the players paycheck not the Canucks payroll), the amount negotiated makes a huge difference to the agent. If Huggy gets 6 million, that's $180,000 (3%) to $300,000 (5%), whereas if Huggy gets 7 million, that's $210,000 (3%) to $350,000 (5%) for the agent. Personally, if I was an agent I'd prefer $350,000 to $180,000, lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 4 hours ago, tas said: because like it or not, and defensive "flaws" notwithstanding (an undersized offensive d-man playing in a matchup role in his first 2 years in the league ... yeah, huge flaws there ...), a 60-65 point defenseman is worth a lot more than a 35-45 point defenceman. First pair, 45 point, D men with size who can play both ends of the ice, aren't worth a whole lot less I'm afraid. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, aGENT said: First pair, 45 point, D men with size who can play both ends of the ice, aren't worth a whole lot less I'm afraid. I guess quinn's contract will let us know, hey? except when it's $6 mil or more, people here will just scream that jb got out negotiated rather than accepting hughes's value. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 hours ago, tas said: I guess quinn's contract will let us know, hey? except when it's $6 mil or more, people here will just scream that jb got out negotiated rather than accepting hughes's value. Hughes’ value should be similar to what Chychrun got last year (4.5m-5.5m). People many disagree, but you look at what Chychrun did in Arizona, where he improved his game. Whereas, Hughes sort of regressed. Hughes may put up better offensive numbers overall, but until he can prove that he’s able to play at both ends. I don’t see him getting that big dollar value. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 i find it hilarious that when the team sucked last year the fans here made so much excuse for the team. schedule sucked.. covid.. lack of practice.. too many back to back etc etc etc. but when it comes to the player struggling none of those excuse applies. Hughes is trash he can't play defense even though he's tossed to play the #1 defense pairing role against other teams big top players even though he has a new defensive partner that can't play defense either 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 57 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: i find it hilarious that when the team sucked last year the fans here made so much excuse for the team. schedule sucked.. covid.. lack of practice.. too many back to back etc etc etc. but when it comes to the player struggling none of those excuse applies. Hughes is trash he can't play defense even though he's tossed to play the #1 defense pairing role against other teams big top players even though he has a new defensive partner that can't play defense either 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: i find it hilarious that when the team sucked last year the fans here made so much excuse for the team. schedule sucked.. covid.. lack of practice.. too many back to back etc etc etc. but when it comes to the player struggling none of those excuse applies. Hughes is trash he can't play defense even though he's tossed to play the #1 defense pairing role against other teams big top players even though he has a new defensive partner that can't play defense either Are you saying Hughes sucks or that people should give him a break because he’s a young player and struggled as did the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: i find it hilarious that when the team sucked last year the fans here made so much excuse for the team. schedule sucked.. covid.. lack of practice.. too many back to back etc etc etc. but when it comes to the player struggling none of those excuse applies. Hughes is trash he can't play defense even though he's tossed to play the #1 defense pairing role against other teams big top players even though he has a new defensive partner that can't play defense either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwood12 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) Edited August 19, 2021 by wildwood12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildwood12 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: Hughes is trash It says more about you than it does about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Devron44 said: Are you saying Hughes sucks or that people should give him a break because he’s a young player and struggled as did the team? no i'm not saying hughes sucks maybe i word it wrong i'm saying ppl here bashing him about his defense etc etc etc but would find all the excuses in the world for the canucks horrendous season. those reason only applies to the teams record but it doesn't apply to players who struggled apparently. Hughes was never going to be your shutdown defenseman but when he's playing 23-24+mins a night and doesn't even play on the penalty kill.. that means he's thrown out there against other teams top player. pair that with non complimentary players on his other side. of coz he's going to struggle defensively. when he does a bad pinch there's no tanev on the other side to cover coz whoever his partner is or was is deep in the zone on the other side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 7 hours ago, shiznak said: Hughes’ value should be similar to what Chychrun got last year (4.5m-5.5m). People many disagree, but you look at what Chychrun did in Arizona, where he improved his game. Whereas, Hughes sort of regressed. Hughes may put up better offensive numbers overall, but until he can prove that he’s able to play at both ends. I don’t see him getting that big dollar value. sorry, but jp barry laughs in your face at that comparable. it's not like hughes has put up good numbers in sheltered minutes. he's been playing big minutes against top players, whether rightly or wrongly. any defensive "shortcomings" are the team's fault for putting him in a position he shouldn't have had to be in yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: i find it hilarious that when the team sucked last year the fans here made so much excuse for the team. schedule sucked.. covid.. lack of practice.. too many back to back etc etc etc. but when it comes to the player struggling none of those excuse applies. Hughes is trash he can't play defense even though he's tossed to play the #1 defense pairing role against other teams big top players even though he has a new defensive partner that can't play defense either 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: no i'm not saying hughes sucks maybe i word it wrong i'm saying ppl here bashing him about his defense etc etc etc but would find all the excuses in the world for the canucks horrendous season. those reason only applies to the teams record but it doesn't apply to players who struggled apparently. Hughes was never going to be your shutdown defenseman but when he's playing 23-24+mins a night and doesn't even play on the penalty kill.. that means he's thrown out there against other teams top player. pair that with non complimentary players on his other side. of coz he's going to struggle defensively. when he does a bad pinch there's no tanev on the other side to cover coz whoever his partner is or was is deep in the zone on the other side. Would be interesting to hear, what you call players that really suck.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 11 hours ago, tas said: I guess quinn's contract will let us know, hey? except when it's $6 mil or more, people here will just scream that jb got out negotiated rather than accepting hughes's value. I've already accepted that QHs will get more then many hope. I also expect he will try and likely earn his contract, same way Horvat and BB have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: no i'm not saying hughes sucks maybe i word it wrong i'm saying ppl here bashing him about his defense etc etc etc but would find all the excuses in the world for the canucks horrendous season. those reason only applies to the teams record but it doesn't apply to players who struggled apparently. Hughes was never going to be your shutdown defenseman but when he's playing 23-24+mins a night and doesn't even play on the penalty kill.. that means he's thrown out there against other teams top player. pair that with non complimentary players on his other side. of coz he's going to struggle defensively. when he does a bad pinch there's no tanev on the other side to cover coz whoever his partner is or was is deep in the zone on the other side. True .. but the eye test at least shows that there really isn't much pinching - QHs is great at leaving and gaining the zone, but stays close to the blue line and usually makes a shifty play pass close to it. The goals scored when he's on the ice almost always he's in the play trying to defend. How many goals do you remember, that were a result of him being caught up the ice? Not many. I'm sure QHs will get better on the walls and when being targeted once he gains 20lbs ... even 10. Edit: I'd actually like to see him pinch more and go right to their net - his most memorable Vegas game one time (and really think it was almost the only one throughout the series), he skated the puck all over there zone including behind their net ... when he has an open lane hope he goes for it ! Edited August 19, 2021 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: no i'm not saying hughes sucks maybe i word it wrong i'm saying ppl here bashing him about his defense etc etc etc but would find all the excuses in the world for the canucks horrendous season. those reason only applies to the teams record but it doesn't apply to players who struggled apparently. Hughes was never going to be your shutdown defenseman but when he's playing 23-24+mins a night and doesn't even play on the penalty kill.. that means he's thrown out there against other teams top player. pair that with non complimentary players on his other side. of coz he's going to struggle defensively. when he does a bad pinch there's no tanev on the other side to cover coz whoever his partner is or was is deep in the zone on the other side. I see what your saying. Yes I think the wording threw people off. From what I’ve seen it’s the no excuses people that also don’t see the true value of Quinn Hughes. Quinn played his second year in the NHL and some people treat him like he’s 26 years. The don’t consider that he still has a lot of room to grow his game which is amazing because the sky is the limit for Quinn. I suspect a prime Hughes will be decent defensively. Very good with the right partner and a top 3 talent offensively. Maybe even the best offensive Dman in the entire league. Time will tell there. Anyone that thinks he should be traded or not worth a long term commitment is out to lunch imo. He literally is the best talent we had it in that position ever 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Devron44 said: I see what your saying. Yes I think the wording threw people off. From what I’ve seen it’s the no excuses people that also don’t see the true value of Quinn Hughes. Quinn played his second year in the NHL and some people treat him like he’s 26 years. The don’t consider that he still has a lot of room to grow his game which is amazing because the sky is the limit for Quinn. I suspect a prime Hughes will be decent defensively. Very good with the right partner and a top 3 talent offensively. Maybe even the best offensive Dman in the entire league. Time will tell there. Anyone that thinks he should be traded or not worth a long term commitment is out to lunch imo. He literally is the best talent we had it in that position ever Skill wise i think he might be but think Reinhardt isn't getting enough due as well. I think QHs has more potential then any D ever and the same goes for EP. Exciting time to be a fan. Thing is you can't and shouldn't have to, pay for potential on a second contract. That's the contract players are supposed to prove their value. To me six million is more then fair. Look at what Tavares took on his second deal. First overall. Way better pedigree, one of the first (or was he the first?) to get exceptional status going into juniors. QHs net gain last year after PP points (not goals, just points) was plus four. Edler or Myers could have padded their stats too. WG worst minus year he was a net gain of plus 40 or so. QHs for sure is young, but he's not getting any bigger/taller. He's targeted big time and usually comes out unscathed which is nice. I think he will be great too, but he hasn't earned a massive pay day yet either Edit: As far as ever goes, that includes Ohlund , Jovo , Lidster, Lanz, McCarthy, Lumme, Brown, Reinhardt....He's probably the best offensive D we've ever had - but has a ways to go before he's passing some of these guys as a defenseman. Edited August 19, 2021 by IBatch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, IBatch said: Skill wise i think he might be but think Reinhardt isn't getting enough due as well. I think QHs has more potential then any D ever and the same goes for EP. Exciting time to be a fan. Thing is you can't and shouldn't have to, pay for potential on a second contract. That's the contract players are supposed to prove their value. To me six million is more then fair. Look at what Tavares took on his second deal. First overall. Way better pedigree, one of the first (or was he the first?) to get exceptional status going into juniors. QHs net gain last year after PP points (not goals, just points) was plus four. Edler or Myers could have padded their stats too. WG worst minus year he was a net gain of plus 40 or so. QHs for sure is young, but he's not getting any bigger/taller. He's targeted big time and usually comes out unscathed which is nice. I think he will be great too, but he hasn't earned a massive pay day yet either Edit: As far as ever goes, that includes Ohlund , Jovo , Lidster, Lanz, McCarthy, Lumme, Brown, Reinhardt....He's probably the best offensive D we've ever had - but has a ways to go before he's passing some of these guys as a defenseman. Yup I agree with all that. The point I’m making is Hughes will most likely be the greatest defencemen we’ve ever had. Sure we have the Ohlunds etc that would be more rounded but his offensive and overall game will still go for years. We are at least 5 years away from prime Hughes. On a bridge deal or even a semi long term deal he should be in that 6 million AAV range. On a personal level I would prefer a 8 year deal because I think that can be done between 7-7.5 million and would set us up big time in 3-4 years can I be pulled off I don’t know but if so that’s the route I’m taking 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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