JM_ Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, gurn said: They also forget that unvaccinated people are much more likely to catch the virus, but the vaccinated can have break through cases. So I for one, would rather stand in a group of people that have been vaccinated and are less likely to have the virus and less likely to spread it to me; than with a bunch of un vaccinated, who are much more likely to have the virus. Math, for the win. "what do you mean i have to wait 3 years for a knee operation"? covid math baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, JM_ said: yup. It appears that we're just going to have to let the anti-vaxxers run their course of getting ill and live with the consequences to our health system, which will be very long term. We had a heath care personnel shortage pre-covid, an its just going to be larger after with all of the people leaving. Folks that are sympathetic to the "its their choice" idea better pray that their tumour surgery isn't delayed in the meantime. Isn't that an indictment of how poor our medical system is? Isn't this an indictment of how poor our health education is? People do not look after their health very well in this country, a very large percentage of people here are obese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, JM_ said: so you mean my Jesus complex is for nothing? I have a similar relative situation, but I know him well enough to know arguing will just dig him in deeper. Maybe he gets lucky and gets a mild case. Jim, your version of Jebus is a more 'manly" diety! None of those passive, girly man 'turn the other cheek' stuff! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, JM_ said: this again Does it matter to you in the slightest what the anti-vaxxers are doing to our hospital system? to our businesses? to kids in school? Its not about you, or just one person. I'd think by now that would have sunk in. From first hand experience (in my hospital at least) the issues are more to do with staffing shortages than Covid. Yes there are many covid positive cases but not in the way we are being told on TV. every patient is tested no matter what they are in the hospital for and a positive test does not equal a symptomatic case same for out in the general public when we test people for work or travel. as for this situation it "may" be getting blown out of proportion, as Myocarditis although rare, it is a side effect of many viral and bacterial infections it is most commonly found after a flu infection. Typically it will go away on its own after a couple of weeks, in extreme cases it can cause death or long term heart damage. I am not certain on the numbers but i would guess from experience that it is slightly more prevalent if not equal to the potential side effects of the Vaccines that cause the same complication. I would not jump to the conclusion that had he been vaccinated that the results wouldn't have been the same. The vaccination is not a cure or totally preventative option we still need to monitor and report our findings as far as positive cases and case outcomes appear in our healthcare system. The number of breakthrough cases are increasing as we increase the number of totally vaccinated individuals so we should at least have more concrete data in the coming months, as well as some more data on the long term effects of contracting covid as we continue to follow up and monitor many cases long after assumed full recovery has happened. people making the claim that he should have been vaccinated to prevent this are making just as uneducated of claims as antivaxxers claiming the jab will cause mass genocide (although we have zero long term data on the vaccines we do have an abundance of data on Myocarditis) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtutino Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 The vaxx can actually cause mycrocarditis according to the cdc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, on the cycle said: Isn't that an indictment of how poor our medical system is? Isn't this an indictment of how poor our health education is? People do not look after their health very well in this country, a very large percentage of people here are obese. not in the least. Our system can provide a near-guarantee of not ending up in ICU for $40 worth of vaccine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 24 minutes ago, Jtutino said: The vaxx can actually cause mycrocarditis according to the cdc. very rare in adults, and mild when it does happen: https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/10/04/covid-19-vaccine-myocarditis-heart-risk-study/5101633353198/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 46 minutes ago, bubba6 said: From first hand experience (in my hospital at least) the issues are more to do with staffing shortages than Covid. Yes there are many covid positive cases but not in the way we are being told on TV. every patient is tested no matter what they are in the hospital for and a positive test does not equal a symptomatic case same for out in the general public when we test people for work or travel. as for this situation it "may" be getting blown out of proportion, as Myocarditis although rare, it is a side effect of many viral and bacterial infections it is most commonly found after a flu infection. Typically it will go away on its own after a couple of weeks, in extreme cases it can cause death or long term heart damage. I am not certain on the numbers but i would guess from experience that it is slightly more prevalent if not equal to the potential side effects of the Vaccines that cause the same complication. I would not jump to the conclusion that had he been vaccinated that the results wouldn't have been the same. The vaccination is not a cure or totally preventative option we still need to monitor and report our findings as far as positive cases and case outcomes appear in our healthcare system. The number of breakthrough cases are increasing as we increase the number of totally vaccinated individuals so we should at least have more concrete data in the coming months, as well as some more data on the long term effects of contracting covid as we continue to follow up and monitor many cases long after assumed full recovery has happened. people making the claim that he should have been vaccinated to prevent this are making just as uneducated of claims as antivaxxers claiming the jab will cause mass genocide (although we have zero long term data on the vaccines we do have an abundance of data on Myocarditis) not sure which hospital you are at. I'm currently working with a trauma surgeon at VGH, and he tells me elective surgeries are going to see huge backlogs and delays due to covid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 26 minutes ago, Jtutino said: The vaxx can actually cause mycrocarditis according to the cdc. This is well known, now what is the percentage of people getting myocarditis from the vaccine, and what is the percentage of people that end up with myocarditis from getting covid? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 I can't find it now, but someone earlier on this site, was saying Alberta was laying of medical folk. Just wanted to point out that Alberta asked for, and is getting Federal military medical assistance; thus extremely unlikely they are laying people off. Wanted to get on that comment earlier, but had to go out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, gurn said: I can't find it now, but someone earlier on this site, was saying Alberta was laying of medical folk. Just wanted to point out that Alberta asked for, and is getting Federal military medical assistance; thus extremely unlikely they are laying people off. Wanted to get on that comment earlier, but had to go out. I have to laugh a bit at Alberta con's mad at Kenmey. He's exactly what they wanted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, on the cycle said: If you have the vaccine you shouldn't be worried about unvaccinated people. Either you believe that the vaccine works or you don't. Logical fallacy. The impact of the unvaccinated does not solely fall on that individual vaccinated person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtutino Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, JM_ said: very rare in adults, and mild when it does happen: https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/10/04/covid-19-vaccine-myocarditis-heart-risk-study/5101633353198/ Crazy 4% in teens thats wild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, on the cycle said: Well it is your human right to refuse medical treatment, this includes vaccines. Also there have been recent studies suggesting that natural immunity is upwards of 14x more effective than the immunity gained through vaccine. I still think you should get the vaccine but to suggest someone who has already had covid is a threat to others seems to be incorrect, especially if you're vaccinated. I you're still afraid of the unvaccinated I would suggest seeking mental health treatment. Yes, you can refuse a doctor attempting to save your life by doing “x”, but the real question is why would you? Ah yes, the natural immunity argument. Here’s a good breakdown on why it’s still better to get a vaccine after having COVID. https://globalnews.ca/news/8229808/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-fact-check/ Someone who has had COVID and is unvaccinated is still a threat to themselves and others, though less of one then someone who hasn’t had COVID and is unvaccinated. There’s different levels of threats depending on vaccine status and time passed since their shot. Single dose vaccinated are still a threat to others, though again less of one then the unvaccinated. That last comment crosses a line. Suggesting mental illness in response to someone wanting to keep themselves, their kids, their family and their community protected from potential sickness or death is completely over the top and unnecessary. Mental health is a serious issue for more people then they’d admit, has cost too many lives and should not be taken lightly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, on the cycle said: I don't know I don't think you're going to change their minds. I just hope that we vaccinate as much as possible. As of today 89.6% of eligible people in BC have had at least 1 dose, so I don't think we really need to vaccinate much more as we've already reached herd immunity awhile ago. The more vaccinated the better we all will be, so yes we do need to vaccinate more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) I wish I could type better... This thread reads like a thesis on the idealogical forcefield that exists between the two sides to this predicament. More thoughts on this than I am able to even begin putting down on the screen. Let's play some hockey damnit! Edited October 5, 2021 by bad alice french Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, JM_ said: not sure which hospital you are at. I'm currently working with a trauma surgeon at VGH, and he tells me elective surgeries are going to see huge backlogs and delays due to covid. All i will say is i am not in the lower mainland so things are going to be different. But i will tell you that do to positive asymptomatic cases yes many elective surgeries will be postponed. I need to be careful with my words here but there is not an alarming number symptomatic Covid positive cases clogging up our system, but there are many asymptomatic positive cases within the usual amount (actually a little less than normal) standard patients (heart attacks, Renal failures, trauma, cancer etc) we will get through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtutino Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 38 minutes ago, gurn said: This is well known, now what is the percentage of people getting myocarditis from the vaccine, and what is the percentage of people that end up with myocarditis from getting covid? 4% of teens apparently and I think it would be hard to tell because we really don't know how many people have had covid. At the start of the pandemic they said to just stay home and self quarantine if you have symptoms. Only go to hospital if you have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said: Yes, you can refuse a doctor attempting to save your life by doing “x”, but the real question is why would you? Ah yes, the natural immunity argument. Here’s a good breakdown on why it’s still better to get a vaccine after having COVID. https://globalnews.ca/news/8229808/covid-vaccine-natural-immunity-fact-check/ Someone who has had COVID and is unvaccinated is still a threat to themselves and others, though less of one then someone who hasn’t had COVID and is unvaccinated. There’s different levels of threats depending on vaccine status and time passed since their shot. Single dose vaccinated are still a threat to others, though again less of one then the unvaccinated. That last comment crosses a line. Suggesting mental illness in response to someone wanting to keep themselves, their kids, their family and their community protected from potential sickness or death is completely over the top and unnecessary. Mental health is a serious issue for more people then they’d admit, has cost too many lives and should not be taken lightly. I will try to find the studies so until i do take what i say with a grain of salt. but there have been a few studies suggesting a link to more severe adverse reactions from the Vaccines in people carrying Covid antibodies. I am still skeptical but having a basic understanding of the way these vaccines do what they do (not the standard way our other vaccinations work) there "could" be some real world explanations for these results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jtutino said: we really don't know how many people have had covid. At least 236,000,000. https://www.covid-19canada.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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