[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Chicago Blackhawks | Oct. 21, 2021

[zimmy]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

It’s just a way to make Hughes seem better than Makar IMO because Canucks fans are still butthurt that he beat Hughes for the Calder (which was absolutely the right decision).

Oh my. You really think this and are unwilling to see any other possibility such as comparing Q to those 8 other often historically great, but certainly at least notable notable  d-men? That's what I'm seeing but then I'm also not of a conspiratorial mindset.

[R3aL]

So I’m ready for pettersson and or Miller to take over a game or even just be game breakers in one game.

 

they really haven’t looked good to me to start the year 

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, zimmy said:

Oh my. You really think this and are unwilling to see any other possibility such as comparing Q to those 8 other often historically great, but certainly at least notable notable  d-men? That's what I'm seeing but then I'm also not of a conspiratorial mindset.

It’s missing a lot of other dmen due to the very specific criteria used. In terms of a scientific comparison, it’s the poster child for skewing the results to a pre determined conclusion. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, R3aL said:

So I’m ready for pettersson and or Miller to take over a game or even just be game breakers in one game.

 

they really haven’t looked good to me to start the year 

Both look like they would rather be somewhere else.

[zimmy]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

It’s missing a lot of other dmen due to the very specific criteria used.

Can't argue that,  but its nice to have a bit of fun and celebrate (project) from time to time don't you think?

[Boudrias]

18 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Nice post. I don't think I'm going to read much more on here today. The sky is not falling and we have a chance to go home 500. Should be a fun game tomorrow. Our team is definitely exciting and highly skilled. I'm liking this group. I think we have a real chance if can gel together more and that certainly looks possible.

When the camera panned down the BlackHawk bench last night the looks on the players faces made me happy to be a Canuck fan.  

[CanucksJay]

7 minutes ago, R3aL said:

So I’m ready for pettersson and or Miller to take over a game or even just be game breakers in one game.

 

they really haven’t looked good to me to start the year 

Miller looked pretty good last night I thought. He gave his all at both ends of the rink and played the body hard. 

 

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, zimmy said:

Can't argue that,  but its nice to have a bit of fun and celebrate (project) from time to time don't you think?

My point is not to take anything away from Hughes. It’s to point out that it’s easy to spin anything you want with flawed criteria.

[Canuck Luck]

16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

133 games is just cherry picking to make the player stats look better. 

lol 133 games was not cherry picked.

 

As EmilyM stated just below your post, 133 games was picked because we are talking about Hughes and Hughes got his 100th point in his 133rd game.

 

People really need better comprehension skills lol.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Canuck Luck

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, Canuck Luck said:

lol 133 games was not cherry picked.

 

As the poster above you intelligently stated, 133 games was picked because we are talking about Hughes and Hughes got his 100th point in his 133rd game.

 

People really need better comprehension skills lol.

Using 133 games AND age 23 both is what makes the comparison pretty much garbage. 

[CaptKirk888]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said:

lol 133 games was not cherry picked.

 

As the poster above you intelligently stated, 133 games was picked because we are talking about Hughes and Hughes got his 100th point in his 133rd game.

 

People really need better comprehension skills lol.

And if some people don’t want see fun stats about one our key players maybe they are in the wrong place. I don’t believe these posts are meat to say Hughes is better. 
As a matter of fact, last year’s Norris winner has only played 130 NHL games thus far and only has 93 career points. And is now, 23.

Edited October 22, 2021 by CaptKirk888
Stuff

[Canuck Luck]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Using 133 games AND age 23 both is what makes the comparison pretty much garbage. 

The only ones making this some kind of pissing contest is you and one other poster.

 

Someone was bringing up stats about an NHL young d man named Quin Hughes. When one does that, one naturally uses attributes specific to that d man they are referring to.

 

In this case, Quin Hughes, the young d man, got his 100th point in his 133rd game while being 23 or under. It is specific to Hughes and how well Hughes has played in his short NHL career. No need to complain about "cherry picked" stats or make up some kind of weird argument that it isn't fair. It is specific to Hughes.

 

[vancan2233]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

In the game against Edmonton, I don't remember many sloppy plays at all. 

That is weird considering they were the strongest team we faced and had the most fire power. 

What's frustrating watching the Canucks is we see games like that when the guys get up for the game and see them put in a solid performance. 

They then put up a stinker in Buffalo. 

 

Chicago game was mediocre in a sense that they did enough to win but weren't tidy enough. 

 

I honestly don't understand why we look so different on any given day. 

 

Is that reflective of all teams or is that a canucks issue? 

 

Most teams go through the same thing.

[Jayinblack]

2 hours ago, kloubek said:

Well, the statement "wrong side of" means you have passed a milestone as set out by the very statement itself. Once one reaches said milestone, they are said to be on the "other side" of it. That's kinda the whole purpose of why that phrase was created.

 

As for "spinning OEL in a negative light", my statement was a direct response to a post saying that it was an amazing trade. My point being that we really won't know how the entire trade plays out until OEL's contract is up.

Isn't that like saying that once a player has reached his prime he's automatically on the wrong side of it ?

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Jayinblack

[Viper007]

57 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said:

We played an AHL Canucks when we were there before.

Actually we haven't been to Seattle yet.  I believe that game was in Spokane.

[Viper007]

2 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

All those dmen were pretty solid in their own end

Not really, Murphy and Housley weren't that great.  Are you trying to belittle what Hughes has done?  Are you really a fan?  We should be proud of the achievement that Hughes has done, yet here you are trying to make Hughes look bad.

 

Congrats Hughes on joining Elite company.  Here's to hoping you outscore them all!! 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Viper007

[RU SERIOUS]

5 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Lots of out of sync plays being attempted. Horvat who is supposed to be able to play defense had a brutal game at both ends of the ice. Yes, many bad passes but also the timing of high risk attempts to clear the puck out of the d-zone. When chipping the puck up the boards or at a minimum clearing it into the Chicago end the Canucks were making many high risk plays. I understand that this roster is mostly young but building a young core towards CUP contention is a balance between developing their game and knowing when and how to bring a game home. IMHO the Canucks won more from Chicago shortcomings than their play. 

 

Yes, only 5 games in so I am not overly worried, but concerned. I thought the Shaw addition would bring more structure to the Canuck game and hopefully it will. What I am seeing to date is much of what we saw last year. Quite frankly I don't care how good a player Hughes is he doesn't/shouldn't play 27 minutes. The TOI was better last night but marginally. IMHO, excluding game specifics, forwards should not play more than 20 minutes. I do think the 2nd PP is getting more TOI but EP40, JT and BO are playing to much. 4th line 10 minutes, 3rd line 14-15 minutes, split the rest between the top 2 lines. On the d-side the bottom pairing should play 15 minutes minimum. Allocation of TOI is about team building and IMO Canucks are weak in that department. 

 

Enough quasi negative stuff. Canucks definitely have a more talented roster than last year. Garland is exciting and brings a different look to the group. Like a smaller and more talented Rous. Hogs is bouncing around a bit but still impresses with his puck recovery and possession. EP40 and Horvat need some practice time to iron out a few things.  

Great summary  and yes, it's pretty obvious Green is playing the top players ragged like he's trying to save his job (which he is !)  If the eratic results continue he must be terminated quickly this year!  NO MORE WAIT & SEE!   He's had well over half a decade to get this teams $h1t together and we can't stomach another season like the last few !

Edited October 22, 2021 by RU SERIOUS

[vancan2233]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yeah for sure.  Using 133 games as a cut off is kinda cherry picking though.  By age 23 Orr already had 400 points.  Stats that cherry pick and start on certain dates or number of games don't really tell the whole story.  I mean you can look at any stat and cherry pick it to make the player look better.

100 points is the milestone used and he did it at age 23 in 133 games. The comparison is 100 points. 133 games is not the cut off 100 points is. 

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, vancan2233 said:

100 points is the milestone used and he did it at age 23 in 133 games. The comparison is 100 points. 133 games is not the cut off 100 points is. 

LOL good point. 

[khay]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

There were only 6 goals where both MacKinnon and Makar got a point at 5v5 last season - each had an assist on a goal for the other and they combined to assist on 4 other goals.

 

Natural Stat Trick has a feature that allows to see how players contribute to each others' scoring.  (Can be found through their 'Player Index').

 

Thanks for pointing out the tool. This helps.

 

So I looked at Makar's teammate stats with MacKinnon.

 

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8480069

 

First thing that stands out to me is Makar's CF% with and without MacKinnon.

 

Makar without Mac has 50.71% CF%. 

With Mac is 68.22 CF%

 

Safe to say that Makar benefits so much from playing with MacKinnon to see an increase of (68.22 - 50.71)/50.71 = 34.5 compared to his baseline CF% (without MacKinnon).

 

When someone that you play with is attracting so much attention from the opponents, it is obviously going to open up a lot of ice for you. Even if they don't end up on the stat sheet together, one cannot overlook the fact that presence of MacKinnon makes it easier for Makar to get points. 

 

Again, let's not get caught up on the literal meaning of "shoveling" the puck to Nate. No one shovels the puck in the NHL -- the very reason why Makar gets to play with MacKinnon is because Makar is a great player.

 

It's similar story with xGF%. 

 

Makar's xGF% with Mac is 69.96. Coincidentally (not really), Makar's xGF% with Raantannen is even higher at 71.20%. It's not really a coincidence, the high xGF% between Makar and Raantanen have a latent factor: playing with Mac. 

Makar's xGF% without Mac? 50.18%.

 

That's drop of 20%.

 

I'm no statistician (or am I?), but I'd say that's significant. Wouldn't you?

 

Now, what about Mac's CF% and xGF% without Makar? 56.18% and 63.86% respectively.

 

So it's safe to say, Mac is still amazing with or without Makar but when he does play with Makar, he's even better.

 

I'd say Makar makes Mac even better too but not as much as Mac makes Makar better.

 

Now, my knowledge of the advanced stats is rather limited so I may have misinterpreted some of these numbers. With all due respect, please enlighten me on where I am wrong (in fact, I have found your posts to be quite enlightening in the past so I'm looking forward to learning).

 

My point stands. Makar gets points easier thanks to Mac.

 

It's as obvious as everyone on Edmonton gets points easier thanks to McDavid. Or Burrows scored 30 goals and Granlund scored 20 goals because of playing with the Sedins.