rekker Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, stawns said: I agree about deployment, but not about the confusion.......the systems are ones that players would have played with other teams over their careers. I can't speak for what's being said obviously. But suppose a player is told to pressure in our zone, and then told to not pressure, or a certain player is told to pressure and another isn't. I think something along these lines is going on. Confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, rekker said: Contender? I would settle for a playoff appearance. Green et all have had enough years to rally this team into playoff consideration. If we are still playing this way after 8 to 10 more games do you not see a need to change coaching? That's my point, they're still in the growing years. It takes most Cup winning teams the better part of a decade to get there. This core is still, mostly, in the early stages and that's often high peaks and low valleys, this team is no different. There will be players moved in and out until they find the right ones to compliment the core group they're dedicated to win with. I agree that if they're still in this rut in 10 games that changes will likely be made, though I think a strategic, significant roster move should come first because I don't think a new coach will solve anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) IMO, the team has finally got to the point of "one last player move; then it's the coach that goes next". Has taken more time to get there than I thought. Get ready to say goodbye to a top 7 ish player; when/if that doesn't do it; goodbye Green. more than a tenth of the season gone already, better get on it soon. Edited October 31, 2021 by gurn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, rekker said: I can't speak for what's being said obviously. But suppose a player is told to pressure in our zone, and then told to not pressure, or a certain player is told to pressure and another isn't. I think something along these lines is going on. Confusion. I don't, I think players on the ice don't trust each other to be in the position they are supposed to be in. That takes time to build and they're turning over the roster, so there's a lot of unfamiliarity amongst teammates. Why would the coaching staff be giving opposing directions to different players. That doesnt really happen at tye NHL level, not even at the Jr level 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, gurn said: IMO, the team has finally got to the point of "one last player move; then it's the coach that goes next". Has taken more time to get there than I thought. Get ready to say goodbye to a top 7 ish player; when/if that doesn't do it; goodbye Green. more than a tenth of the season gone already, better get on it soon. That's what I think too and that player would be Miller for me 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscatel Marauder Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, stawns said: It takes a lot longer than three years for a core to grow together and become a legit contender. it does, but that doesn't always require the same coaching group. Often it happens once there's a change. Green is what hie is, we're not seeing a frustrating start in isolation, we've seen this movie before more than once. I think people make too big a deal out of coaching changes, they are like any other team asset, if its not working try a new one. Edited October 31, 2021 by JM_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I was so annoyed, I went to cap friendly and traded a lot of people; amazing how many first rounders I got. But seriously; they are all running out of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Should put Garland back with Pearson/Horvat & just leave them. Let them continue to build chemistry. Hoglander hasn't been great anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Umbrus Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, stawns said: I agree about deployment, but not about the confusion.......the systems are ones that players would have played with other teams over their careers. I don’t think it’s systems related. I think it’s Greens reads in game. The coach vs coach stuff that can make or break games. He mixes lines up at confusing points in the game, they get called for a lot of too many men penalties, guys jumping on ice confused over and over makes me think it’s coaching. I’m in no way an expert but as an observer and a fan, I just see him getting out worked and out maneuvered as a coach. I loved that PP goal by Philly last game, Vigneault knows the rink better than TG and he’s been gone for almost 10 years. Edited October 31, 2021 by Attila Umbrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 13 minutes ago, JM_ said: it does, but that doesn't always require the same coaching group. Often it happens once there's a change. Green is what hie is, we're not seeing a frustrating start in isolation, we've seen this movie before more than once. I think people make too big a deal out of coaching changes, they are like any other team asset, if its not working try a new one. No argument here and I'm ok with moving on from Green and I've said, in the past, that JB probably wouldn't be the GM to take them to that level.......much like Noni's wasnt. As I said, I think there's something toxic in that lineup and I don't think a coaching move changes that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuporbust Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, -DLC- said: That's exactly what I feel is happening. There is a shelf life on almost ever coach imo. Very few get to coach losing teams for this long simply for the physiological factor that a coaching change can often energize a team that is in a funk. Greens time is up imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 16 minutes ago, stawns said: I don't, I think players on the ice don't trust each other to be in the position they are supposed to be in. That takes time to build and they're turning over the roster, so there's a lot of unfamiliarity amongst teammates. Why would the coaching staff be giving opposing directions to different players. That doesnt really happen at tye NHL level, not even at the Jr level Really? Mixed messages happen all the time. Coaches favourites, veterns, rookies, who knows what else can have a coach convey a mixed message. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said: I don’t think it’s systems related. I think it’s Greens reads in game. The coach vs coach stuff that can make or break games. He mixes lines up at confusing points in the game, they get called for a lot of too many men penalties, guys jumping on ice confused is over and over makes me think it’s coaching. I’m in no way an expert but as an observer and a fan, I just see him getting out worked and out maneuvered as a coach. I loved that PP goal by Philly last game, Vigneault knows the rink better than TG and he’s been gone for almost 10 years. I don't disagree with lineup decisions and I think that'll be his downfall. Again, I don't think replacing will change the culture of the players. Something stinks and they need to find out why and make a roster change, imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yes we can nucks Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Despite the loss I don't think the Nux played badly. The number of shots and faceoff wins were pretty much even. Both goalies were hot. Both teams had chances that could've been put away. The score coulda gone either way. McJesus played like the devil but he was kept to one assist. The difference was the powerplay. I see Edmonton's and Phillies' powerplays are so creative and in constant motion compared to ours. Ours has been stagnant and predictable for the last few seasons. I can't for the life of me understand why we can't have different looks on it with the individual talent we have. The (lack of) powerplay is killing us right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, rekker said: Really? Mixed messages happen all the time. Coaches favourites, veterns, rookies, who knows what else can have a coach convey a mixed message. . On deployment? Absolutely, but not on systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 I was looking forward to the game ever since the dud against Philly. We then had to hang out with friends last minute so I PVRd it planning on watching it at night. I then get a text from a dumb Oilers Fan which helped me save my 3 hrs. Not a good sign if I start skipping games this early and glad I did.. Aquaman's gotta make a change ASAP if he wants to save the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighOnHockey Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 9 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said: It's actually one of the deeper drafts in a while from the early looks of it. Maybe @HighOnHockey could comment more on this as he would have a better perspective in relative depth to other years. We are too good of a team though to finish in the bottom 10 of the league, and only the bottom 10 teams will have a shot at 1st and 2nd picks in the new revised format. Also the 3rd overall pick will not be up for grabs. Absolutely. 2022 draft is looking like maybe the best we've seen in years. I'm thinking even better than 2020, and might be up there with some of the all-time drafts like 2003 and 2015. Doesn't have a top 2 like 2015, and 2003 is known as maybe the deepest draft of all time (probably not going to get a Weber or Bergeron in the 2nd round), but like those two drafts, just about every pick in the top 20 to 25 should come away an impact player. So as I've been saying, not the best year to tank, as you may very easily get a player at 20 as good as you would get at 10. I'll try not to write an essay here, but would like to compare 2022 to the past few drafts. I like to break prospects down into tiers so that I can try to compare across drafts - generational prodigy, prodigy, phenom, elite, bluechip, legitimate, project, longshot. Comparing to the past three drafts, I had 2019 with one prodigy, one phenom, and about 12-15 elite prospects. I had 2020 with one prodigy, three phenoms, and again around 12-15 elite prospect (but then 2020 looked deeper than 2019 beyond that). 2021 I had no prodigies and one phenom (Eklund), and something around 7-10 elite prospects. 2022 I've got one prodigy (Wright), could be up to six phenoms (Miro, Yurov, Kemell, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Savoie), maybe even more. And easily another 15-20 beyond that who could be elite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 minute ago, stawns said: On deployment? Absolutely, but not on systems. They are a package. You preach a system and if it isn't bought into there should be repercussions. You preach a system and who is rewarded or penlaized though it can bring a team together, or not. Is the message reinforced consistently. Again, neither of us in the room so pointless really. Would still prefer to swap some pints with Nate Schmidt and hear his take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe Knows Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Only 2 possibilities IMHO..either our top players aren't as good as we think they are or there is something screwed up off the ice ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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