Hirsch: "...the problem isn't on the bench, the problem is in the locker room..."

[DIBdaQUIB]

12 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

Can you spell out exactly what the game plan is for this team? What are we trying to do on PP, PK, Offensive zone faceoff down by 1? 

 

Because the way I see it, unless you know exactly what the expectation was on any given play I don't think you are in a position to start assessing blame (whether you want to blame the system, the coach, the players etc.). In any sport I believe if a team plays to the game plan and don't get the result they are looking for, than we can start to make adjustments. But if a team has a game plan, does not execute that game plan and then doesn't get the result they are looking for how can you change the system? You don't know that it was flawed because you didn't execute it. 

 

I have played for teams before where this was the problem. Players did not buy into the system because they liked something they used before on another team or they were not willing to put in the effort and work it took to win. Without everyone working in the system our PK in particular was crap. The players came together and said either you buy in or your not playing and from there we went on to win a national championship and rolled a 100% PK through the tourney using the original PK game plan. 

 

I'm not saying Green should stay or should go but if your not in that room I don't think you can accurately say veteran guys are leaving because they know our coaches are wrong.

None of us can say with certainty why this team is failing so successfully, including you.  This is all supposition based on what we see on the ice and comments from current and former players.  Follow the evidence. A detective looks for clues, he doesn't get to ask the murderer  how he did it. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by DIBdaQUIB

[DIBdaQUIB]

4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Better sign some veteran free agents to fill that age gap.

 

Wouldn't want a losing culture or anything.

 

We must still have a 2025 1st we could give away. 

['NucK™]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Swedish players are all very tight. It’s how they’ve been brought up. The Sedins were always close with OEL. And they played a part in him coming to Vancouver. 
 

As well, OEL said one of his roles coming to Vancouver is to mentor the young Swedish players. Obviously that is Petey and Höglander. 
 

https://nhltradetalk.com/oliver-ekman-larsson-new-role-veteran-for-the-canucks/

 

General Manager Jim Benning finally pulled off a trade for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, who is expected to take on that crucial mentorship role for the Canucks’ young players- especially the Swedes. The former Arizona Coyotes Captain has 769 games of NHL experience to his name, and a ton of respect among Swedish NHLers. Almost as important to the Canucks as his play on the ice will be his ability to help the young guys off the ice.

I’m sure the Sedins have a much better relationship with OEL, Petey and Höglander than a 50 year old colour commentator who happens to fly with the team. 

If Petey and Hog simply aren't disclosing what is going on in the room, which is very much a possibility, then your point kinda goes out the window.. not to mention that even if they are, you are then assuming the Sedins are automatically passing that info onto Bieksa for some reason..

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Better sign some veteran free agents to fill that age gap.

 

Wouldn't want a losing culture or anything.

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, guntrix said:

This.

 

I agree that Green needs to go but if this is true then it not only shows a total lack of professionalism from our guys, but it means that it’ll probably happen again with some other coach as soon as things start going south. 

I would hope that any coach who proves himself as incompetent as Green would be fired long before this point going forward.  Can't blame the players when the coach is a cancer in the room.

[Bo fan]

I want to hear from the Sedins

[MeanSeanBean]

35 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

If Petey and Hog simply aren't disclosing what is going on in the room, which is very much a possibility, then your point kinda goes out the window.. not to mention that even if they are, you are then assuming the Sedins are automatically passing that info onto Bieksa for some reason..

Given the Sedins are widely known as some of the most respectful players, and genuine people of our era, I personally highly doubt they are big into gossiping with an old teammate about the team they now work for.

[DIBdaQUIB]

17 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I would hope that any coach who proves himself as incompetent as Green would be fired long before this point going forward.  Can't blame the players when the coach is a cancer in the room.

Can't believe guys are willing to lay the blame on 20+ guys all underperforming vs one or two coaches who have no track record of success. Every one of our pk guys is giving up goals at 2 to 4x their historical average. Did they have a collective brain fart and all forget how to PK? So much evidence that the coaching is just not nhl calibre.

['NucK™]

5 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Given the Sedins are widely known as some of the most respectful players, and genuine people of our era, I personally highly doubt they are big into gossiping with an old teammate about the team they now work for.

Yep, exactly... yet a bunch of people seem to believe Bieksa has more info than a guy who is literally with the team.. mindboggling

[IceHockeyPlayer]

I remember seeing Nate Schmidt played towards the end of his tenure with the Canucks. Completely disinterested and disengaged. And yes, he couldn’t wait to leave as we found out later. I believe he saw a defensive system that was not working. No matter who we get on the back end, if there is no buy in, it’s not going to work.

[IceHockeyPlayer]

I think that Bo is in support of the system and the coach. He was positive about Green’s rehire when the news came out but I am not sure about the rest of the team.

[stawns]

I said a few weeks ago I thought there was a bit of a civil war in the dressing room.  I can't stand Hisch, but I think he's right. Imo, there's a leadership battle with Miller and Horvat, the two dominant personalities in the room.

 

[MeanSeanBean]

22 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Yep, exactly... yet a bunch of people seem to believe Bieksa has more info than a guy who is literally with the team.. mindboggling

I definitely respect Booms insight being such an important part of our core for so long, but personally I just don't think he has any insider insight on the current team. 

[Goal:thecup]

6 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Does someone have the clip of boeser and green giving eachother looks on the bench. I think it's him but I blame green.

I backed this up and looked at it a few times on the pvr (not that that does us any good here).

 

To me, it looked like Petey was trying to justify something and Brock shook his head and looked away.

 

Another episode prior to that Horvat and Miller were working together on the tablet and looked to me like they were in agreement and moving forward.

 

A third thing that has me wondering if "It" is Pettersson is the weird stuff that came out during his contract negotiations.

He kinda said he only wanted the 3 year deal because he wanted to win, and would make a decision whether to resign with Vancouver at the end of this contract v/v the next contract.

(I mashed that up, but I hope you get what I mean.)

 

Last, I saw Miller talking several times with multiple Canucks who were grouped around paying rapt attention.

Green was right there and did not interfere, has given JT an "A", and a heck of a lot of ice time.

 

To my sleuthing, "It" is Pettersson, who consistently seems to do the opposite of the right thing at decision time.

To my mind this is "It", but to my heart, which is breaking, I cannot believe Petey would act like this, and hope to helll I am dead wrong.

[JeremyCuddles]

7 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Does someone have the clip of boeser and green giving eachother looks on the bench. I think it's him but I blame green.

If it came down to Boeser or Green being the problem it's pretty obvious who is the problem. Lol. Get Green outta here way before we move Boeser.

[appleboy]

I would guess that there is lots of players who are not happy. They aren't stupid. They can see the short comings of this team.

['NucK™]

39 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

To my mind this is "It", but to my heart, which is breaking, I cannot believe Petey would act like this, and hope to helll I am dead wrong.

Really, though? Petey, to me, seems to me like the exact type of guy to act up if things aren't going his way.

[VegasCanuck]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

tbh tho, this seems kind of far-fetched to be this bad in the room. Are there players not happy about Green? for sure there are. Is there a "cancer" in the room that must be removed, I just don't buy it.

 

there's so many different ideas right now on whats wrong, but stepping back and taking a high level view, its pretty obvious a change is needed at least with coaches, and really GM/AGM as well.

 

Changing players seems like the worst move we could make right now, at least as step 1.

I don't think we would actually need to change or trade anyone, but if this is being speculated, Benning should come out and make a statement, that there is no one in the room who is unwilling to commit to the system that Green wants them to play. If there was, he's sure that they would come to him and ask him to find them somewhere else to play.

 

If someone is pulling the wrong way and being counterproductive, they need to be called out.

 

 

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I don't think we would actually need to change or trade anyone, but if this is being speculated, Benning should come out and make a statement, that there is no one in the room who is unwilling to commit to the system that Green wants them to play. If there was, he's sure that they would come to him and ask him to find them somewhere else to play.

 

If someone is pulling the wrong way and being counterproductive, they need to be called out.

 

 

just listening to Murph, he doesn't think there's much to this. Its probably Hirsch talking out of his ass. 

[Bure_of_94]

1 hour ago, Goal:thecup said:

I backed this up and looked at it a few times on the pvr (not that that does us any good here).

 

To me, it looked like Petey was trying to justify something and Brock shook his head and looked away.

 

Another episode prior to that Horvat and Miller were working together on the tablet and looked to me like they were in agreement and moving forward.

 

A third thing that has me wondering if "It" is Pettersson is the weird stuff that came out during his contract negotiations.

He kinda said he only wanted the 3 year deal because he wanted to win, and would make a decision whether to resign with Vancouver at the end of this contract v/v the next contract.

(I mashed that up, but I hope you get what I mean.)

 

Last, I saw Miller talking several times with multiple Canucks who were grouped around paying rapt attention.

Green was right there and did not interfere, has given JT an "A", and a heck of a lot of ice time.

 

To my sleuthing, "It" is Pettersson, who consistently seems to do the opposite of the right thing at decision time.

To my mind this is "It", but to my heart, which is breaking, I cannot believe Petey would act like this, and hope to helll I am dead wrong.

Move Pettersson. 1-for-1 for Barzal.