Dazzle Posted November 19, 2021 Author Share Posted November 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: The missing ingredient on this team - from the owner down - is true accountability. They claim they demand it of the players to earn a spot (which is absolute BS considering who they keep and how they are used) but players aren’t stupid. You can see it in them that they don’t feel their GM and coach have their backs at all. And that they don’t accept any responsibility when things go sideways. This team is truly toxic because of the "leadership". I'm all-in on fire management. Truly pathetic excuses of a team executive. Green is just bad. As someone said, a lousy coach and an even worse personality for the position he is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 You know, as much of a train wreck as the Torts year was, at least you knew he would be taking the heat right now to shield his players. So would AV. And Gillis. And Burke. Hell, even Desjardins would be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Just now, Dazzle said: This team is truly toxic because of the "leadership". I'm all-in on fire management. Truly pathetic excuses of a team executive. Green is just bad. As someone said, a lousy coach and an even worse personality for the position he is in. Are we really that much different culture wise than Buffalo has been? Or the Oilers pre-Holland? Or Arizona? Green is the same as a coach as he was as a player. Entitled and arrogant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) Overall, when we are where we are, there's a lot to blame. Management, coaches, players... we're in a ugly position. When it's like this sometimes you have to consider cleaning house. We have enough young players to keep around for a reset/short rebuild. Edited November 19, 2021 by Junkyard Dog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Overall, when we are where we are, there's a lot to blame. Management, coaches, players... we're in a ugly position. When it's like this sometimes you have to consider cleaning house. We have enough young players to keep around for a reset/short rebuild. This might ultimately be what needs to happen unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 57 minutes ago, Trebreh said: Historically bad PK and PP all points to the coaches. I really want to blame Aqua/Benning, but until I see this team under a legit NHL coach, the blame falls on Green. Everyone thought JB had a great off season, that was the consensus opinion before the season. This team IS talented, the most skilled lineup (on paper) since the 2011 team. The roster had a major makeover but the team still plays the same old flawed 'system'. Our skilled players are regressing right before our eyes playing the dump n chase. Fire the entire coaching staff except Shaw and Clark, if the team still sucks under a new system, then the blame goes to JB for constructing the team. The most important one to fire is Shaw imo He is the one that came in to fix the PK and it is the worst it has EVER been (the only issue he has to focus on) At least Green has the 5v5 playing better, with non of his core players except Demko contributing I agree keep Clark the one with the best results of all coaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Dazzle said: In summary, everyone, minus Ian Clark. Let's start with Aquilini ownership: - accused of being meddling - but it's their team. - problem is that they hired the wrong people, in hindsight. Benning is undeniably a problem, but not nearly as big of a problem as the other ones. - not making the right decisions when they needed to. (Extending Green, not firing Green when they could've done it.) - insisting on his mistakes without an apparent plan to fix it. - not adding enough support for his GMs, via assistant GMs. Team President role is obviously very demanding and not all people can thrive in that. Benning - there is no other way around this, but he is a mistake. Perhaps he's a victim of Aquilini and how he deals with this team. - Benning did a good job this offseason, but the team is so unbelievably toxic, and he's been at the controls, from start to finish. Wasn't able to find the source of the problem. Player Name, Roussel, Beagle weren't the problems, clearly. Neither was Newell Brown. - spent a lot of money on 'established' players. Contrary to how Gillis did it, he spent little on his supplementary players (but had a core gifted by previous GMs) - pro scouting - minus Garland, Miller - has been suspect. No concept of team chemistry. - Keeping Green. This is a coach that has been mediocre from start to finish. Minus the bubble, Green is comparable to Willie Desjardins. - Perhaps trusting Green too much. Green hasn't proven to be a good manager of players, so his input on the roster shouldn't be considered. - poor communication of ideas to the public. Making big promises without the ability to follow through. Green - mediocre coach at best. No record to show that he is capable beyond 50 percent, despite huge roster overhaul, and multiple chances to lift team up. - poor coaching tactics. No matching up game (unlike AV), and no adaptation. We are still playing like we had the same team in the bubble. Insistence on using bag skates as an evaluation tool. Playing favourites, without any accountability. - poor assistant coaches - Baumgartner is a nice guy, but shouldn't be coaching at the NHL level. Jason King is extremely unproven. Everyone should be cleaned house, except Aquilini since he's the owner. Maybe this is a huge wakeup call that the way Aqua runs his team is garbage. Green is not a good coach. Stop the excuses. Shouldn't even be in the NHL, tbh. Benning is not a good GM, even if he has a track record as a scout. The fact that Aquilini is dragging his feet on both these issues demonstrates that he is unable to make the moves that he needed to. Finally the fans, the people who complain about Aquilini. A bunch of fans say he meddles too much, while others say he doesn't help the team when it needs leadership. The coach obviously is not good, so fire him early. Instead, this toxicity is allowed to build up. Solutions - trade Horvat at the trade deadline. He is due for a contract and there is no sense in keeping him. Time for a new era. Horvat doesn't stand up for his teammates - trade Miller - 29 and UFA coming up. A first round pick was used to obtain him, so we can get someone/picks decent back. Miller is a good leader. - if leadership is a question mark, this will spark a reset These two trades alone will benefit the Canucks long term, in addition to a high draft pick. Replacements - need to get a proven leader in the room, someone with a lot of experience. Age shouldn't be a factor. I don't think we have this in the room, except Miller - Bruce Boudreau for exciting season success, or Guy Boucher for painful, but stable defense. Not Green, not WD, not this AHL calibre staff. We've been arguing about Benning for at least 3 years Dazzle, you always stood up for him. Even half your 'criticism' of him now is just Green related. Now it's the coaching that your out to lunch on. Green will get hired in a heartbeat. Benning will be the one googling Ziprecruiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: The most important one to fire is Shaw imo He is the one that came in to fix the PK and it is the worst it has EVER been (the only issue he has to focus on) At least Green has the 5v5 playing better, with non of his core players except Demko contributing I agree keep Clark the one with the best results of all coaches Fire and replace the assistant coaches? Didn’t the Islanders just do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: Fire and replace the assistant coaches? Didn’t the Islanders just do that? That is where we are hurting the most, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Had a crazy thought: Wouldn't it be funny if they did turn it around with this roster, and still make the playoffs? There are a lot of new guys on this team. Garland Dickinson Podkolzin Chiasson Dowling Lammikko Ekman-Larsson Poolman Schenn Hunt Burroughs Halak That's a lot of new guys trying to be a team off the hop. Maybe they just haven't found that trust in each other yet, that chemistry when they know what the other guy is going to do. I see this roster and I believe they should be a lot better. The Canucks are extremely slow out of the gate, but I could also see them catching fire once they become a bonded team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV. Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 28 minutes ago, Dazzle said: This team is truly toxic because of the "leadership". I'm all-in on fire management. Truly pathetic excuses of a team executive. Green is just bad. As someone said, a lousy coach and an even worse personality for the position he is in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: Had a crazy thought: Wouldn't it be funny if they did turn it around with this roster, and still make the playoffs? There are a lot of new guys on this team. Garland Dickinson Podkolzin Chiasson Dowling Lammikko Ekman-Larsson Poolman Schenn Hunt Burroughs Halak That's a lot of new guys trying to be a team off the hop. Maybe they just haven't found that trust in each other yet, that chemistry when they know what the other guy is going to do. I see this roster and I believe they should be a lot better. The Canucks are extremely slow out of the gate, but I could also see them catching fire once they become a bonded team. It would be nice But, Why did VGK come out strong NEVER playing together and with NO CORE like we have had, that are NOT performing at all? Edited November 19, 2021 by ba;;isticsports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: It would be nice But, Why did VGK come out strong NEVER playing together and with NO CORE like we have had, that are NOT performing at all? That's a really good point. I could only guess that every player had a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. They were inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said: That's a really good point. I could only guess that every player had a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. They were inspired. Funny thing is our core rewarded and feel they no longer have something to prove now? It is the new guys doing the contributing, not the core that has been together and familiar with each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) It is no one person’s fault. There is no one person to blame. Blaming some one for the past in the present is a slippery slope. Edited November 19, 2021 by spur1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, spur1 said: It is no one person’s fault. There is no one person to blame. Blaming some one for the in the present is a slippery slope. Agree not one persons fault Many have slipped Now time to slide on the slip n slide, on the slippery slope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: Agree not one persons fault Many have slipped Now time to slide on the slip n slide, on the slippery slope No shortage of tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 minute ago, spur1 said: No shortage of tears. Oh right it was rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Tre Mac said: We've been arguing about Benning for at least 3 years Dazzle, you always stood up for him. Even half your 'criticism' of him now is just Green related. Now it's the coaching that your out to lunch on. Green will get hired in a heartbeat. Benning will be the one googling Ziprecruiter. Green has a mediocre record and it is baffling, you believe he is a desired commodity ?; unless ofcourse, it is a part of a staff - then I agree but as a HC, perhaps somewhere else outside of the NHL. Care to explain what makes Green so desirable around the league cause he seems to be nothing but a poser - someone who plays the role well but the results says otherwise ? Edited November 19, 2021 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) Lots of blame to go around; and the presser, on optics alone says alot. A better statement, would had been better delivered if Green, Aquaman and JB was there to answer questions - rather than an insecure JB, all by himself. In the corporate world, this is looking like the higher ups are looking for a scapegoat. Which means, JB will be forced to do something: a desperate trade (?) cause he really has no control, of anything else and firing a newly extended Green, is not on the table - right now. Just like his cap mismanagements, he hamstrung himself by re signing Green to a (baffling) TWO year extension. Preferably, I hope JB stays but this season confirms, he is not ready to be the top dog; and all the finger should be on Aquaman cause he assembled this crew and the rules they operate on - are on him. This whole thing will probably have to get ugly before it gets better cause management has no clue on what to do next - except buy time by doing a desperate trade. Wonder which player goes; but they might surprise and show some accountability - who knows... Edited November 19, 2021 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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