[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[D.B Cooper]

2 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

That's rock bottom for me. There would be nothing more embarrassing.

The only thing more Canucks than losing a player for nothing, is making a push at the end of the season, missing the playoffs and ruining good draft position

[aGENT]

36 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

I'm ok with it too.  He's getting paid to do his job and will get a huge raise regardless next yr but nux can't overpay him too much or it will cripple the team. But without JT, I don't think they can make the playoffs this season. It's an important goal to accomplish. You need to build playoff experience and too many of them don't have any or very few (eg Demko played only 3 games).  Whether JT gets moved at the deadline or later, or even signs long term, we'll be determined next yr. I'm expecting him to be playing for nux from opening night until the trade deadline at the minimum. 

 

 

I don't know how you can declare that with any certainty, without knowing the trade return?

 

And we may not make the playoffs WITH Miller. Just like we didn't last year.

 

Makes for a pretty weak argument to let him walk for zero assets other than cap space.

[Chris12345]

2 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

The only thing more Canucks than losing a player for nothing, is making a push at the end of the season, missing the playoffs and ruining good draft position

I couldn't agree more.

 

It's that you getting swept by the Avs in the first round. Give me a break.

[Chris12345]

40 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

I'm ok with it too.  He's getting paid to do his job and will get a huge raise regardless next yr but nux can't overpay him too much or it will cripple the team. But without JT, I don't think they can make the playoffs this season. It's an important goal to accomplish. You need to build playoff experience and too many of them don't have any or very few (eg Demko played only 3 games).  Whether JT gets moved at the deadline or later, or even signs long term, we'll be determined next yr. I'm expecting him to be playing for nux from opening night until the trade deadline at the minimum. 

 

If you are 1 player short of the post season you pretty much suck.

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, Hogs & Podz said:

In light of the info from the Miller camp, unless a team calls and is willing to pay what nucks management wants (highly unlikely).  Allvin and co will probably risk going through the season, hoping JT doesn't get hurt seriously, and trade him as a rental at the deadline for whatever they can get.  Even if they're in a playoff position, they'll trade him.  

... This isn't a great scenario no matter how you stack it.  But probably the most realistic.

 

Is anyone okay with him just riding out this contract and seeing how far we can go with him until end of season?

As it stands (compared to the alternatives of getting very little for him in a trade before season or at deadline when we're probably in a playoff spot.)... I'd be okay with it.  I look at it like he's a rental this year.  Am I wrong?

I’m not fine with that.

If he is not signed, you still have to take what you can get at TDL because it’s the last resort in mgmt saving any face through this process.

 

CGY made out okay because Tkachuk actually respected mgmt enough there to warn and provide an opportunity to obtain a much needed return. If Tkachuk

had pulled a Gaudreau, take a look at what CGY’s roster would look like now. No Kadri either. Club would be forced into being an instant rebuild candidate or at least wait until the following season’s UFA period to stack back up.
 

On that note, there are going to be options during the season, TDL and post season to acquire other players who will complement the club. There should not be any apprehension that replacements or potentially even improvements will come available, even if we have to wait for those opportunities. JTM is not the be all end all of this team’s future successes. 
 

love him and want to extend him here but if being a realist, can only do so if it’s less than fair market value over term and that just ain’t happening. 
 

for anyone having anxiety about it, here’s a quick look at the current potential top 50 UFAs for next season. obviously many of these players will likely be extended, but a few names stick out to me as solid hopefuls as to where JTM money could provide for present and future given our current core age demo (Barzal, Larkin, Pastrnak, Bratt, Severson):

 

PLAYER
1. Jonathan Toews
2. Patrick Kane
3. Vladimir Tarasenko
4. Ryan O'Reilly
5. John Klingberg
6. Mathew Barzal
7. James van Riemsdyk
8. Max Pacioretty
9. David Pastrnak
10. Alex DeBrincat
11. Sean Monahan
12. Nathan MacKinnon
13. Dylan Larkin
14. Jordan Staal
15. Kyle Okposo
16. Timo Meier
17. Erik Johnson
18. Milan Lucic
19. Pierre-Luc Dubois
20. Matt Dumba
21. Jonathan Quick
22. Jonathan Drouin
23. Andrew Ladd
24. Gustav Nyquist
25. Jason Zucker
26. Joe Pavelski
27. Bo Horvat
28. Jesper Bratt
29. Patric Hörnqvist
30. J.T. Miller
31. Dmitry Orlov
32. Evgeni Dadonov
33. Semyon Varlamov
34. Ben Bishop
35. Tyler Bertuzzi
36. Travis Sanheim
37. Frederik Andersen
38. Shayne Gostisbehere
39. Tomas Tatar
40. Alex Killorn
41. Oscar Klefbom
42. Damon Severson
43. Jonathan Bernier
44. Brian Dumoulin
45. Jake Gardiner
46. Vince Dunn
47. Joonas Donskoi
48. Kevin Shattenkirk
49. Nick Foligno
50. Cam Talbot

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by RWJC

[Gawdzukes]

17 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

The only thing more Canucks than losing a player for nothing, is making a push at the end of the season, missing the playoffs and ruining good draft position

[Hogs & Podz]

11 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I’m not fine with that.

If he is not signed, you still have to take what you can get at TDL because it’s the last resort in mgmt saving any face through this process.

 

CGY made out okay because Tkachuk actually respected mgmt enough there to warn and provide an opportunity to obtain a much needed return. If Tkachuk

had pulled a Gaudreau, take a look at what CGY’s roster would look like now. No Kadri either. Club would be forced into being an instant rebuild candidate or at least wait until the following season’s UFA period to stack back up.
 

On that note, there are going to be options during the season, TDL and post season to acquire other players who will complement the club. There should not be any apprehension that replacements or potentially even improvements will come available, even if we have to wait for those opportunities. JTM is not the be all end all of this team’s future successes. 
 

love him and want to extend him here but if being a realist, can only do so if it’s less than fair market value over term and that just ain’t happening. 
 

for anyone having anxiety about it, here’s a quick look at the current potential top 50 UFAs for next season. obviously many of these players will likely be extended, but a few names stick out to me as solid hopefuls as to where JTM money could provide for present and future given our current core age demo (Barzal, Larkin, Pastrnak):

 

PLAYER
1. Jonathan Toews
2. Patrick Kane
3. Vladimir Tarasenko
4. Ryan O'Reilly
5. John Klingberg
6. Mathew Barzal
7. James van Riemsdyk
8. Max Pacioretty
9. David Pastrnak
10. Alex DeBrincat
11. Sean Monahan
12. Nathan MacKinnon
13. Dylan Larkin
14. Jordan Staal
15. Kyle Okposo
16. Timo Meier
17. Erik Johnson
18. Milan Lucic
19. Pierre-Luc Dubois
20. Matt Dumba
21. Jonathan Quick
22. Jonathan Drouin
23. Andrew Ladd
24. Gustav Nyquist
25. Jason Zucker
26. Joe Pavelski
27. Bo Horvat
28. Jesper Bratt
29. Patric Hörnqvist
30. J.T. Miller
31. Dmitry Orlov
32. Evgeni Dadonov
33. Semyon Varlamov
34. Ben Bishop
35. Tyler Bertuzzi
36. Travis Sanheim
37. Frederik Andersen
38. Shayne Gostisbehere
39. Tomas Tatar
40. Alex Killorn
41. Oscar Klefbom
42. Damon Severson
43. Jonathan Bernier
44. Brian Dumoulin
45. Jake Gardiner
46. Vince Dunn
47. Joonas Donskoi
48. Kevin Shattenkirk
49. Nick Foligno
50. Cam Talbot

 

I appreciate the list of 23-24 FA's.  However as you just mentioned, even if JT walks away end of season, that money can go towards one of these FA's... Ideal?... Hell no!  But again as you mentioned, not the end all be all. 

 

What I'm saying is... If by the td, we still have JT, unless there's a home run trade to be had for the management...  A offer they can't say no to, then hold on to him as a rental and let the team get some playoff experience.  

[Chicken.]

26 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I’m not fine with that.

If he is not signed, you still have to take what you can get at TDL because it’s the last resort in mgmt saving any face through this process.

 

CGY made out okay because Tkachuk actually respected mgmt enough there to warn and provide an opportunity to obtain a much needed return. If Tkachuk

had pulled a Gaudreau, take a look at what CGY’s roster would look like now. No Kadri either. Club would be forced into being an instant rebuild candidate or at least wait until the following season’s UFA period to stack back up.
 

On that note, there are going to be options during the season, TDL and post season to acquire other players who will complement the club. There should not be any apprehension that replacements or potentially even improvements will come available, even if we have to wait for those opportunities. JTM is not the be all end all of this team’s future successes. 
 

love him and want to extend him here but if being a realist, can only do so if it’s less than fair market value over term and that just ain’t happening. 
 

for anyone having anxiety about it, here’s a quick look at the current potential top 50 UFAs for next season. obviously many of these players will likely be extended, but a few names stick out to me as solid hopefuls as to where JTM money could provide for present and future given our current core age demo (Barzal, Larkin, Pastrnak, Bratt, Severson):

 

PLAYER
1. Jonathan Toews
2. Patrick Kane
3. Vladimir Tarasenko
4. Ryan O'Reilly
5. John Klingberg
6. Mathew Barzal
7. James van Riemsdyk
8. Max Pacioretty
9. David Pastrnak
10. Alex DeBrincat
11. Sean Monahan
12. Nathan MacKinnon
13. Dylan Larkin
14. Jordan Staal
15. Kyle Okposo
16. Timo Meier
17. Erik Johnson
18. Milan Lucic
19. Pierre-Luc Dubois
20. Matt Dumba
21. Jonathan Quick
22. Jonathan Drouin
23. Andrew Ladd
24. Gustav Nyquist
25. Jason Zucker
26. Joe Pavelski
27. Bo Horvat
28. Jesper Bratt
29. Patric Hörnqvist
30. J.T. Miller
31. Dmitry Orlov
32. Evgeni Dadonov
33. Semyon Varlamov
34. Ben Bishop
35. Tyler Bertuzzi
36. Travis Sanheim
37. Frederik Andersen
38. Shayne Gostisbehere
39. Tomas Tatar
40. Alex Killorn
41. Oscar Klefbom
42. Damon Severson
43. Jonathan Bernier
44. Brian Dumoulin
45. Jake Gardiner
46. Vince Dunn
47. Joonas Donskoi
48. Kevin Shattenkirk
49. Nick Foligno
50. Cam Talbot

 

Love how Lucic made this exclusive list 

[bad alice french]

47 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Trading JTM doesn’t necessarily mean a step back though. If first game of the season he is injured and LTIR’d we will still be using his cap space to locate a replacement…and the band plays on.

 

try imagining the team with 8.5 to spend in trade acquisition. It won’t get you a JTM surely, but it can be used to shore up where we need to and at the very least allows us more flexibility on what we can acquire through trade (pending what the return is from JTM). 
 

it sucks to have to choose but JTM does not make or break this team. If indeed he did, we might as well blow it all up right now because it would indicate we don’t have any relevant pieces for the future. He makes us better, but EP, QH, TD, Bo, and potentially VP are the long term solutions and the direction the pendulum has already shifted towards with this club. Take that momentum and build for pieces that continue the inertia…for now and 5 years time. 

No one player "makes or breaks" any team. If we lose that player we are not as good a team. He is an important part of the equation. Very important. Don't let your best players get away. He played above his pay grade by a mile the last 2 seasons. Pay the guy and let's keep building.

I'm getting fed up with people suggesting he's not that big a deal. life goes on etc. etc. etc.

He's our best player. End of story.

[BPA]

1 hour ago, Hogs & Podz said:

Are you okay if that ends up happening?

Me personally?  No.
 

I think playoff experience is good to “get over the hump”.  Kinda like when the Sedins Burrows era took a few tries then “Slayed the Dragon”.

 

But I don’t think the team has the “core” to try to go deep.  Just feel the D is not up to snuff just yet.

 

 

[RWJC]

37 minutes ago, bad alice french said:

No one player "makes or breaks" any team. If we lose that player we are not as good a team. He is an important part of the equation. Very important. Don't let your best players get away. He played above his pay grade by a mile the last 2 seasons. Pay the guy and let's keep building.

I'm getting fed up with people suggesting he's not that big a deal. life goes on etc. etc. etc.

He's our best player. End of story.

He’s our best player for maybe next 1-2 seasons. Doesn’t mean you pay him for 7 or 8 at top dollar.

 

I hear what you’re saying and if there wasn’t cap or raises due I’d be all for it. 
but I don’t want to lose a QH or EP and their years of service at the cost of a JTM. Just my two cents 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

this have nothing to do with I want miller traded.. this have everything to do with miller being the most logical piece to move because of where the canucks are and what their window  to compete looks like. Miller will not be the star player he is now by the time the canucks are a cup contender. As of right now we are a fringe playoff team. Next step would be a playoff contender. We ain’t going from a fringe playoff team to a cup contender overnight in 1 or 2 moves. We are prolly at least 3 years from that.. and then what? Have miller for maybe 1-2 year before he comes an anchor during what maybe our window to compete just to handicap ourself?

I'm sorry, I must have missed the press conference that stated when exactly we would be a cup contender.  Can you give me the exact date on that so I can book it in my calendar?

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

What I heard was "we love JT, but only want him back if he's taking a team friendly deal"

Is BO also taking a team friendly deal?  What about Petey and Hughes?  Last I heard they both held out and missed training camp the last time their contracts expired looking for a fat payday.

 

Why is it only Miller that has to take a team friendly deal?

[RWJC]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Is BO also taking a team friendly deal?  What about Petey and Hughes?  Last I heard they both held out and missed training camp the last time their contracts expired looking for a fat payday.

 

Why is it only Miller that has to take a team friendly deal?

He doesn’t. 
But paying a 34-37 year old player 8 million (as AAV) isn’t team friendly either 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, RWJC said:

He doesn’t. 
But paying a 34-37 year old player 8 million (as AAV) isn’t team friendly either 

Pretty much every playoff team has guys in their 30's making $7-8 million. 

 

This whole deal that we need to have every core player in the exact same age bracket so we can build up for that beautiful and perfect 5-7 year cup window is a fantasy scenario conjured up in someone's own mind.

 

First off, the Canucks have never had a 5-7 year cup window in their entire existence.  The only time we were actually the best team in the league was for a brief 3 year period out of the 52 years of being in the NHL.  So why do we now after 52 years suddenly have to build up this team to make it a contender for 5-7 years?  Why not just go for a cup instead?  You know that beautiful and shiny mug that we've never ever won before, unless you count 1917.

 

I'd rather go all in and actually try and win the cup once in my lifetime versus trying to build up this juggernaut contender for 5-7 years and replicate 2011 all over again...

[wai_lai416]

17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'm sorry, I must have missed the press conference that stated when exactly we would be a cup contender.  Can you give me the exact date on that so I can book it in my calendar?

exactly when? who knows at least the president of hockey ops have the same opinion as me about the cup contender window is at least 2-3 years away.. but you guys seems to think we are a contender right now therefore we should go all in lock up all the players and the caps going to be 100mil+ in a few years according to some of you with your crystal balls.

[Viper007]

38 minutes ago, RWJC said:

He’s our best player for maybe next 1-2 seasons. Doesn’t mean you pay him for 7 or 8 at top dollar.

 

I hear what you’re saying and if there wasn’t cap or raises due I’d be all for it. 
but I don’t want to lose a QH or EP and their years of service at the cost of a JTM. Just my two cents 

Why would we lose QH or EP?  I'm sure the Canucks would give away other players if that were the case.  If the Canucks lose JT or trade him (and they don't get immediate help), then most likely EP is gone anyways, since he would be looking for a "contending" team to play on.

[RWJC]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Pretty much every playoff team has guys in their 30's making $7-8 million. 

 

This whole deal that we need to have every core player in the exact same age bracket so we can build up for that beautiful and perfect 5-7 year cup window is a fantasy scenario conjured up in someone's own mind.

 

First off, the Canucks have never had a 5-7 year cup window in their entire existence.  The only time we were actually the best team in the league was for a brief 3 year period out of the 52 years of being in the NHL.  So why do we now after 52 years suddenly have to build up this team to make it a contender for 5-7 years?  Why not just go for a cup instead?  You know that beautiful and shiny mug that we've never ever won before, unless you count 1917.

 

I'd rather go all in and actually try and win the cup once in my lifetime versus trying to build up this juggernaut contender for 5-7 years and replicate 2011 all over again...

You get a real chance at the cup by weaponizing and maximizing cap space. 
we don’t even really have the relief until end of next season.  We don’t have the salary structure currently in place (especially on D) commensurate with the right players to even ice a Stanley cup playoff D corps. 
what does going all in mean to you without any cap to utilize to actually be going all in?!?!  This is where and what  JTM’s extension money goes to. 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

exactly when? who knows at least the president of hockey ops have the same opinion as me about the cup contender window is at least 2-3 years away.. but you guys seems to think we are a contender right now therefore we should go all in lock up all the players and the caps going to be 100mil+ in a few years according to some of you with your crystal balls.

So JR woke up from his 3 month nap and told the Vancouver fans that we would be a cup contender in 3 years?  Based on what exactly?  Did he dream about it?  Sure let's trade our 99 point player Miller at the trade deadline for a pick and a prospect and that should help up to be a contender in 3 years.  I mean does he take us all for fools or what?  

 

Maybe JR and Lou Lam need to both take up fishing during the hockey season...

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, RWJC said:

You get a real chance at the cup by weaponizing and maximizing cap space. 
we don’t even really have the relief until end of next season.  We don’t have the salary structure currently in place (especially on D) commensurate with the right players to even ice a Stanley cup playoff D corps. 
what does going all in mean to you without any cap to utilize to actually be going all in?!?!  This is where and what  JTM’s extension money goes to. 

Edmonton has an AHL defence but they are going all in and maximizing the fact that McJesus and Draisaitl may not be around in 4 years.

 

Going all in means putting the best team together that you can under the circumstances that you have and taking a shot.  We already have most of the pieces in place if we keep Miller.  We can try and clear some cap in the summer and go get a RHD either in free agency or via trade.  We have lots of wingers and can afford to trade one or two.  We don't have any young centres in the pipeline and so it makes sense to keep the guys we already have.

 

There is no guarantee we will win the cup this way.  However, there is also no guarantee that we will win the cup by trading our best players, stockpiling picks and prospects and waiting it out for the next 3-4 years...

Edited August 29, 2022 by Elias Pettersson