higgyfan Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Miller won't be traded until Kadri is no longer available. So far, all the 'game changer' players that have been traded are much younger that JT or are UFAs that don't require a trade. Once Kadri is signed, the Canucks will decide if they can realistically keep Miller and if they can't sign him, they will start to allow viable teams to talk with his agent. It's hard to speculate how long it will take to work out a fair deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, JM_ said: he does, and I'm not saying he's hot garbage. It just to move cap and fill in our need for better right side d, we may have to walk from Garland for cheap. Good players are going cheap now just for the cap space. Yea for sure. Don't envy Allvin and Ruth right now trying to navigate this situation . In reality they probably want 2-3 right side D upgrades lol, including clearing Myers, and getting 1 has been challenging enough. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: I would think teams in a similar point to their cycle as Seattle trading for Bjorkstand would trade slightly less for Garland if he was on the table. New Jersey has been rumoured, Detroit, Seattle, Anaheim needs to hit the floor, etc. Both I could see Rutherford valuing having Garland around more than moving him for a 4th rounder. Garland's value is low right now, but this summer has been crazy for a lot of players' value. Could easily change in 1-2 seasons. He brings a lot to 5-on-5 play. Lol. Garland isn't going anywhere just to clear cap space. Sure only one year, but with two different coaches he managed just fine. And a new team as well. Both Garland and EP drew more penalties then anyone else. And Bruce ... didnt seem so fond of him. Garland ... what do you think a 4th rounder is actually worth? Most 4th overalls likely won't end up having the career Garland will have by the time his current deal is done. Edit: Your namesake - i have some doubts about though. Guess we find out next year. Edited July 28, 2022 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, spook007 said: If you can afford Garland, you keep him around... During the season there will be teams having wingers getting injured, and then he is a nice little asset to dangle... should definitely bring in more than a 4th... 3 minutes ago, IBatch said: Lol. Garland isn't going anywhere just to clear cap space. Sure only one year, but with two different coaches he managed just fine. And a new team as well. Both Garland and EP drew more penalties then anyone else. And Bruce ... didnt seem so fond of him. Garland ... what do you think a 4th rounder is actually worth? Most 4th overalls likely won't end up having the career Garland will have by the time his current deal is done. I'm not saying I'd move him, I said he brings a lot to 5-on-5 play and management would be moving him at his lowest value which would be an extremely difficult decision to make. That IS approximately his value this insane off-season. Look at what Bjorkstand brought back - and he's better than Garland in every single way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: I'm not saying I'd move him, I said he brings a lot to 5-on-5 play and management would be moving him at his lowest value which would be an extremely difficult decision to make. That IS approximately his value this insane off-season. Look at what Bjorkstand brought back - and he's better than Garland in every single way. Exactly my point... If you can afford to keep him you do... He will fetch more during the season than this moment in time... this is ofcourse based on the assumption they want to move him, which is the scenario being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, spook007 said: Exactly my point... If you can afford to keep him you do... He will fetch more during the season than this moment in time... this is ofcourse based on the assumption they want to move him, which is the scenario being discussed. I genuinely agree, but it also just depends what other moving parts are there. Check out this hypothetical: Miller re-signs, Allvin clears Myers to Dallas without retention. Garland for Severson Sign Klingberg, Rodrigues as FAs A lot could happen if dominos ever fall...or most teams could be stuck in this current stalemate. Definitely not advocating a Garland dump unless there's some more moves at play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TmanVan Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Canuckster86 said: Is the consensus on CDC that we would like to keep JT Miller but it boils down to the amount of term? I would keep him but 5-6years would be my max if he wants 8.5m or slightly more. If he has another PPG season he could command 8.5-9m on a 7 year deal as a UFA possibly right? 5yr x 9m would be my max cap hit, 6yr x 8.75m : These are my best to offers to JT if I was GM. Canucks will need to extend a lot of young talent and Demko in the net 4-5years. The hope is the cap does jump up eventually, but the NHL seems to be making $ and got a ton from Seattle to buy into the league yet the salary cap is only able to go up 1m...how much is Bettman and Daly getting per year, Too much! Depends on how the contract is structured as well. I would front load it, so hes making minimal actual dollars for the last 3 years of the contract. This would make his contract easier to off-load to a team that has lots of cap space, but doesn't want to spend real money (Arizona, Buffalo etc). If we give him a no trade clause it would then also be null for the last 3 seasons. Basically... We guarantee him 4-5 years with the Canucks and a promise to keep the team competitive around him, and then have is contract flexibility open up for the remaining years if he is no longer a useful player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: I genuinely agree, but it also just depends what other moving parts are there. Check out this hypothetical: Miller re-signs, Allvin clears Myers to Dallas without retention. Garland for Severson Sign Klingberg, Rodrigues as FAs A lot could happen if dominos ever fall...or most teams could be stuck in this current stalemate. Definitely not advocating a Garland dump unless there's some more moves at play. Garland is not the kind of player is NJD was looking for. Fitzgerald talks of having too much of the same up front and wanting more straight line players - Garland is too much of the same and he's not a straight line player. Miller would have been the right fit but they've invested in Palat. Doesn't sound like they're looking to box out their young players so it's not like they are just going to add veterans. Fitzgerald confirmed that adding Haula will allow Mercer to be full time in the top-6. Palat was lured in as UFA to play top-6. Palat Hischier Bratt / Sharangovich Hughes Mercer looks to be their top-6 going into the season. One of their objective of the off-season was to improve their defence - moving Severson would undo that. He's a good stop gap with 1 year left. Nemec talked of going to the AHL to adjust. Edited July 28, 2022 by mll 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, mll said: Garland is not the kind of player is NJD was looking for. Fitzgerald talks of having too much of the same up front and wanting more straight line players - Garland is too much of the same and he's not a straight line player. Miller would have been the right fit but they've invested in Palat. Doesn't sound like they looking to box out their young players so it's not like they are just going to add veterans. Fitzgerald confirmed that adding Haula will allow Mercer to be full time in the top-6. Palat was lured in as UFA to play top-6. Palat Hischier Bratt / Sharangovich Hughes Mercer looks to be their top-6 going into the season. One of their objective of the off-season was to improve their defence - moving Severson would undo that. He's a good stop gap with 1 year left. Nemec talked of going to the AHL to adjust. Garland is a straight line player without the puck, it's only with the puck that he starts to twirl. Anyway, it wasn't a serious proposal, just a vague idea that things could shift 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: I'm not saying I'd move him, I said he brings a lot to 5-on-5 play and management would be moving him at his lowest value which would be an extremely difficult decision to make. That IS approximately his value this insane off-season. Look at what Bjorkstand brought back - and he's better than Garland in every single way. Didn't Columbus have to dump cap after signing Gaudreau though? If they were at the mercy of other teams to move cap out during an offseason where cap is really tough to move isn't that a different scenario entirely? That wouldn't be so much a reflection of value so much as Columbus being bent over a barrel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 56 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Klingberg simply can't play well enough in his own zone to be welcome here at any salary. Keep that useless pylon away from our lineup. have to agree to disagree on this one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Says who exactly? Damn. Guy takes their team to the final four two years in a row and look all you'd like, but in 40 years of following the NHL i've never seen a team go from one of the worst defensive teams, to a top 3 one overnight, and he did that after they lost Tavares! Maybe he lost the room. But he sure did in NSH for a very long time, and that team just kept producing star after star D's under his watch no matter where they were drafted. Media is just that - makes sh!t up all the time. Sure turned on him fast if this is true. Good grief, one of the best coaches of his era. And he's not stupid like Babcock, or anything like Keenan either. Would love to have Trotz in YVR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Didn't Columbus have to dump cap after signing Gaudreau though? If they were at the mercy of other teams to move cap out during an offseason where cap is really tough to move isn't that a different scenario entirely? That wouldn't be so much a reflection of value so much as Columbus being bent over a barrel. Yea, there's a chance a team would pay more if they really, really wanted Garland specifically on their team. But in most scenarios it would be the Canucks looking to move him, not vice versa. I can't imagine many teams right now giving away more than a 2nd-4th round pick or a player on a similar contract for him, can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) The really revealing comment from JR in his most recent interview was, "....you can only do things if you have a partner to do it" Most people on this board seem to think that Rutherford and Allvin simply go to teams who can't afford to lose a guy on RD (Islanders) and say, GIVE ME YOUR LUNCH MONEY... I think this is how CDC think Rutherford and Allvin treat other GM's... Edited July 28, 2022 by VegasCanuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, johngould21 said: Would love to have Trotz in YVR. After Bruce wins a cup here and retires. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 39 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: The really revealing comment from JR in his most recent interview was, "....you can only do things if you have a partner to do it" Most people on this board seem to think that Rutherford and Allvin simply go to teams who can't afford to lose a guy on RD (Islanders) and say, GIVE ME YOUR LUNCH MONEY... I think this is how they think Rutherford and Allvin treat other GM's... At some point, you just know that kid is going to kick someone in the junk. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 54 minutes ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: Yea, there's a chance a team would pay more if they really, really wanted Garland specifically on their team. But in most scenarios it would be the Canucks looking to move him, not vice versa. I can't imagine many teams right now giving away more than a 2nd-4th round pick or a player on a similar contract for him, can you? I don't think Garland would be moved for picks so that's not really a market argument I'd make, most Garland talk I've seen has revolved around flipping him for a D as opposed to trying to move him for cap space. I'm personally of the opinion that he's worth more to the team than what he'd garner via trade due to his cap hit vs production. I'm also not sure how to gauge the current market, but I wouldn't use Bjorkstrand as a measuring factor. We haven't exactly seen many top six forwards moved via trade this offseason and Columbus had very little negotiating power. The return they'd have gotten on pretty much any of their players would have been neutered by the fact they absolutely had to move cap out, that was the cost of reeling in the top UFA. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Jester13 said: This is a solid thought. However, talk directly with the agent and try to reason with him and Miller. Going public isn't the best idea for bargaining in good faith, so I doubt his agent is terribly happy with JR using the media to negotiate. I think both sides have known the most likely outcome all along and that neither side was going to get to comfortable ground in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stawns Posted July 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I don't think Garland would be moved for picks so that's not really a market argument I'd make, most Garland talk I've seen has revolved around flipping him for a D as opposed to trying to move him for cap space. I'm personally of the opinion that he's worth more to the team than what he'd garner via trade due to his cap hit vs production. I'm also not sure how to gauge the current market, but I wouldn't use Bjorkstrand as a measuring factor. We haven't exactly seen many top six forwards moved via trade this offseason and Columbus had very little negotiating power. The return they'd have gotten on pretty much any of their players would have been neutered by the fact they absolutely had to move cap out, that was the cost of reeling in the top UFA. Garland is cost controlled, drives the play, draws penalties and earns every cent of his contract........I have no idea why people would want to move him. You never get value in a trade equal to what he brings to the team 2 3 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 hours ago, RomanP said: That's news to me. This work had 3 different initial titles - "Three Seasons", "Year 1805" and "All is well that ends well". I'm sorry, it's a quote from Elaine in a Seinfeld episode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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