[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Boudrias]

10 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I would've enjoyed having them on the team, but Marky was a no brainer.  Absolutely no way that we could've kept him as we would've lost Demko.  Also no way that we could've traded Marky, our team MVP that year.  

 

Not sure how I feel about Tofu at this present moment:  49 points last year...  2 years left at 4.25.  Doesn't look like a bargain at 30 years old and after the bloodbath that we just witnessed in the free agency this year, but as I said I really would've enjoyed having him on the team over the last two years.  

 

As far as Tanev, it's been a miracle that he's stayed relatively healthy but Calgary did essentially lose him in the playoffs this year.  He played hurt again Dallas and wasn't that effective, and he missed a lot of time/wasn't effective against Edmonton.  

Marky, Tanev and Tofu all gone for no return. Confirmation of the long term asset management fiasco known as the Vancouver Canucks. Yes, limitation of options existed. My point being is that ownership, management and fans talk a long term commitment to CUP contention but inevitably op for playoffs and a outside chance at contention. That is how I view the JT Miller situation. Even if he was resigned the Canuck development timeline does not support serious CUP contention during his hope for premium years. Resigning him eats up CAP space that should be used for resigning the young core and leaving management with enough CAP space to jump on building a younger and deeper core group. Resigning Miller is the higher risk option. 

[Coconuts]

9 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

I think JR and Allvin should tell Miller that if they can't reach a deal before the season starts  they will talk after the season is over.  Take a chance on the season.  We will be a good team with him onboard. He risks injury or a downturn in play. Those factors may get him to come to the table now if we close the window for negotiating at season start.

 

Selling him at the trade deadline is dumb unless we are out of the playoffs.  There is value in a playoff run for our young guys.  Don't kill it unnecessarily.

 

We can trade someone like Garland for a RD after the season.

 

Millers cap space can go to signing someone else if he doesn't sign with us for a reasonable deal.

 

The, we gotta get something for him, is not really a thing if it costs us the playoffs.  Huberdeau was part of the package for Tkachuck. The value of 29 year olds is not that high in a trade in today's NHL. Miller is not worth that much in a trade so don't play for the trade. 

 

 

Can we? I know Columbus was bent over a barrel but a player with similar numbers in Bjorkstrand was essentially dumped for cap space.

[stawns]

6 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I don't think the relationship between the Canucks and Miller will get as toxic as Gaudreau and the Flames. That was very poorly handled. If it looks like we're not going to re-sign him towards the end of next year for whatever reason then I think JR is smart enough to get Allvin to just lower his standards and we maybe just settle for a top-4 defenceman and a pick, knowing it's almost just a rental sell.

 

It may get tricky if we're in a similar situation to the Flames around TDL - Miller is our top line center helping us win games and if we trade him for whatever, we take a step back, and we're in a good playoff spot. If that's the case I'd be half tempted to just let him ride out the playoffs, give our young guys a good playoff push and experience and then let him walk, rather than trade him for a worse player at the TDL and then we suck and get swept in the playoffs.

 

Lots of possibilities but I do doubt he walks for nothing, I think more realistically is that Miller's production will drop off big time next year to around a point per game and we'll be able to re-sign him for something cheaper, say 5y x 7.5-8M.

In which case I'd bet he's a guarantee run for the border to a low income tax state

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

I think JR and Allvin should tell Miller that if they can't reach a deal before the season starts  they will talk after the season is over.  Take a chance on the season.  We will be a good team with him onboard. He risks injury or a downturn in play. Those factors may get him to come to the table now if we close the window for negotiating at season start.

 

Selling him at the trade deadline is dumb unless we are out of the playoffs.  There is value in a playoff run for our young guys.  Don't kill it unnecessarily.

 

We can trade someone like Garland for a RD after the season.

 

Millers cap space can go to signing someone else if he doesn't sign with us for a reasonable deal.

 

The, we gotta get something for him, is not really a thing if it costs us the playoffs.  Huberdeau was part of the package for Tkachuck. The value of 29 year olds is not that high in a trade in today's NHL. Miller is not worth that much in a trade so don't play for the trade. 

 

 

It's not likely the best case scenario, but it happens often enough.   It's up to Miller if he wants to stay here or re-sign, and management and the market/other teams if a trade makes sense.    It's definitely "nothing in return" in these cases, it's a run and a chance at the cup plus experience or whatever depending on the team.    There is value in insulating EP for one more season ... other intangibles, like for example the good things Podz had to say.   Leadership and vets are there to help the younger players get what it takes in this league so they can aspire to emulate it.   St. Louis did this for Stamkos all those years ago.    
 

Ideally we win the cup that's a stretch obviously.   But bet that a lot of fans warm up to the idea of a nice showing IF we get 107-110 points / top 8 team ... guess we will find out either way. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's not likely the best case scenario, but it happens often enough.   It's up to Miller if he wants to stay here or re-sign, and management and the market/other teams if a trade makes sense.    It's definitely "nothing in return" in these cases, it's a run and a chance at the cup plus experience or whatever depending on the team.    There is value in insulating EP for one more season ... other intangibles, like for example the good things Podz had to say.   Leadership and vets are there to help the younger players get what it takes in this league so they can aspire to emulate it.   St. Louis did this for Stamkos all those years ago.    
 

Ideally we win the cup that's a stretch obviously.   But bet that a lot of fans warm up to the idea of a nice showing IF we get 107-110 points / top 8 team ... guess we will find out either way. 

If JB let Miller walk for nothing the entire fanbase would implode.  Short of s Cup, losing him for nothing would be tye biggest failure for this franchise in the "orca" era

 

[IBatch]

33 minutes ago, stawns said:

If JB let Miller walk for nothing the entire fanbase would implode.  Short of s Cup, losing him for nothing would be tye biggest failure for this franchise in the "orca" era

 

Wow.   

 

Edit:  There we're those that wanted to trade the Sedins prior to their last contract.   HHOFers...what sort of haul would have one or two of the twins got us?  With retention.   Surely that was a bigger "mistake"  ... or maybe not trading Naslund?   Miller is good ... but he's not that good.   And for all the pages on this thread, there are thousands more lamenting the JB era (well, in large part because we didn't get much for our vets)...    Sure some might be pretty upset about it.   Are folks still distressed about the Sedins?   Or that only Kesler was willing to waive when he still had value? 
 

What about Jovo?   That stung.   At least he went on to play a long career in the desert and captain that team ... he could have stayed and been our C.     Like it or not,  JR has his number,  Miller his, and we have a season to play out before that decision is made.    Worst case is actually a bad trade, with guys we end up wasting cap space on - not that i'm worried about that but it's part of the risk, and then QHs and Demko say see you later and EP pulls a PLD/MT.   No point worrying about this.    Pretty sure JR will stick to his guns as in "this team can't afford to let UFAs walk for nothing" ...

 

Impossible to know for sure.   Feels like the worry is amping up to pretty bad levels over things we can't control at times on here, and once the puck drops, and if Miller is here still, we should at least be prepared for the chance that he does sign somewhere else and is kept on the team for the postseason.   At least we have him for that, Horvat too.   What bugs me more is our tax situation, that's the worst thing that's happened since the orca, and expansion.  

Edited August 9, 2022 by IBatch

[HorvatToBaertschi]

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

If JB let Miller walk for nothing the entire fanbase would implode.  Short of s Cup, losing him for nothing would be tye biggest failure for this franchise in the "orca" era

 

Miller isn't gonna walk so who cares?

[Nucker 67]

15 minutes ago, stawns said:

If JB let Miller walk for nothing the entire fanbase would implode.  Short of s Cup, losing him for nothing would be tye biggest failure for this franchise in the "orca" era

 

It wouldn't be a great look, but what is the value of getting Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin, Demko, etc. into the playoffs?  Trade Miller and the Canucks probably miss out again next playoffs.  They'll try to re-sign Miller, but if they don't, I guess that's $60 million they won't have to pay a 30-something year old. 

 

 

[tas]

26 minutes ago, Muttley said:

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=105112

82 on the last...

the two years prior to that, when he played 69 and 56 games respectively, that was also 100% of the available regular season games for him to play. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by -DLC-
Personal attacks are not necessary

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Muttley said:

Ergo, both sides compromise, the numbers get to a point that works for all concerned, hence everything is right with the world. Of the upmost importance, it needs to

be known; I, personally, am not on an agenda. No pushing narratives, no way. Totally open minded. 

The two sides are likely $15m apart. And I don't see either side coming much off of either of those positions (nor should they). Miller's earned a market value contract, the Canucks are not in position to give him that. There isn't really middle ground there.

[combover]

29 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It wouldn't be a great look, but what is the value of getting Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin, Demko, etc. into the playoffs?  Trade Miller and the Canucks probably miss out again next playoffs.  They'll try to re-sign Miller, but if they don't, I guess that's $60 million they won't have to pay a 30-something year old. 

 

 

It has zero value if we can’t get back in the following years  or don’t improve.  
 

bubble year playoffs some of those guys got experience so what did it do? 

losing a top player for nothing would be a giant step back. Short sighted goals are why we are in this situation after being terrible for so long. 

If were not a playoff team with out him this year why would be better next year after he leaves for free

unless it’s to JB a older lesser UFA  stupid money which is also proven to be super effective. 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by combover

[aGENT]

28 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It wouldn't be a great look, but what is the value of getting Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin, Demko, etc. into the playoffs?  Trade Miller and the Canucks probably miss out again next playoffs.  They'll try to re-sign Miller, but if they don't, I guess that's $60 million they won't have to pay a 30-something year old. 

 

 

Why do we "probably miss out on the playoffs"? Especially after the offseason additions, our forward group is deep enough to move Miller. Doubly if we get a piece or two back that helps us now (3C or RHD) as part of the trade return.

 

We cannot afford to let him walk. Our own management group has directly said as much about expiring players. And Miller is likely the biggest, no club control, expiring player this team will have for a while.

 

It baffles me that so many think that's a legit option.

[Nucker 67]

2 minutes ago, combover said:

It has zero value if we can’t get back in the following years  or don’t improve.  

losing a top player for nothing would be a giant step back. Short sighted goals are why we are in this situation after being terrible for so long. 

If not not a playoff team with out him this year why would be better next year after he leaves for free

unless it’s to JB a older lesser UFA  stupid money which is also proven to be super effective. 

 

It would be a huge mistake if they don't re-sign or trade Miller. Time will tell, JR/PA will have a lot of pressure to trade him at the TDL if he's still unsigned by then.

 

That might also be a head-scratcher - Why is JR/PA trading their best player down the stretch, when they're in the playoff hunt!? That would be terrible for the young guys wanting to get in the post-season, seeing that opportunity vanish.  So confusing as to what they might do. I really hope there's a Miller trade soon, before camp, so there are no distractions this season and they know where they stand.

[JM_]

30 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It wouldn't be a great look, but what is the value of getting Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin, Demko, etc. into the playoffs?  Trade Miller and the Canucks probably miss out again next playoffs.  They'll try to re-sign Miller, but if they don't, I guess that's $60 million they won't have to pay a 30-something year old. 

 

maybe Miller decides to stay if the team looks like it has real potential after a good playoff run too.

 

One of the main problems with this whole Miller discussion is the initial idea of a return for him was massively overblown. Trading Miller was franchise saving. 

 

But of course its not, and now its reduced to "anything is better than nothing". 

 

I sure would like to see Podkolzin learn how to raise his game in the playoffs. Petey, Brock and Hughes need more of it too. 

 

I'm sure some of the fanbase would lose its mind if Miller left as a UFA, but pretending thats everyone is a bit much. 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Muttley said:

Anything is possible. Even more likely when he reunites with his team-mates and begins preparation for a great season. Is there a long term deal on the near horizon?

No, probably not but as the season wears on, you never know what can change..

Your argument is miracles and fairytales.... Ok... Yup we done here 

[Coconuts]

34 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It wouldn't be a great look, but what is the value of getting Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin, Demko, etc. into the playoffs?  Trade Miller and the Canucks probably miss out again next playoffs.  They'll try to re-sign Miller, but if they don't, I guess that's $60 million they won't have to pay a 30-something year old. 

 

 

Had this conversation with JM yesterday, I'm not interested in holding him for a single playoff run if him walking for nothing negatively impacts our ability to consistently gun for playoff spots.

 

I'd rather get assets for him and try to compete for a spot without him while either boosting the current roster or giving our prospect pool a much needed boost.

[-DLC-]

13 hours ago, Muttley said:

Hard to believe Chris went virtually injury free this past season. What a turnaround. Could just be a fluke I guess, but that's not where I'd put my money.  Wonder how he 

would've done with Boudreau?

He was playing injured and missed 4 playoffs games. The surgery will mean he'll be out at the start of the season (torn labrum).

22 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The two sides are likely $15m apart. And I don't see either side coming much off of either of those positions (nor should they). Miller's earned a market value contract, the Canucks are not in position to give him that. There isn't really middle ground there.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

 

Here's the thing that happens over time....the reality of the situation is revealed and what someone may want/ask for may not be out there as the dust settles. Just as the Canucks are likely worried about term/age, other teams will also factor that in. Sure, other teams don't have the cap crunch that we do and are in a better position to offer top dollars...but the question is will they (for the long term)? So far it seems that no team's been desperate enough to sell the farm to acquire him and that'll factor in to his asking price the longer his side waits it out. There's obvious risk in that, it's not a given.

 

He will have an offer here that will guarantee some stability (he knows his role here and seems to embrace it) whereas no offer is a bit of a gamble. The middle ground is that, as time goes on, will he keep up at the same performance level and repeat the big money production. There are risks from his end as he waits it out...his age is a factor so time isn't on his side. As much as people weigh out and argue about the risk to our team keeping him, other teams will also have those concerns. There's a bit of a "strike while the iron's hot" thing that is passing as time goes on for JT. He's proven himself and has earned the big bucks but he will be tapering off...so it's the long term vision that other teams will also consider. 

 

Miller has earned a market value contract but the sample size is small in support of that earning level...as time goes on he will have to maintain that pace or the value will drop (likely significantly as he enters his 30's). I mean, the argument against signing him here (beyond we don't have the $$) is that he'll be on the decline and so that matters for other teams too as they factor in his age and recognize that his peak is likely now and could be shortlived.....how long will he sustain that pace?

 

It's not like 25 year olds...these contracts in the latter years to see players out aren't just about having the money available to sign them...it'se about the value down the road and assessing that.

[aGENT]

Just now, JM_ said:

maybe Miller decides to stay if the team looks like it has real potential after a good playoff run too.

 

One of the main problems with this whole Miller discussion is the initial idea of a return for him was massively overblown. Trading Miller was franchise saving. 

 

Hyperbole. Very few people have suggested it would be franchise changing. Get some solid/useful  pieces to help during our actual contention window, don't commit gaudy cap to a player bound to decline halfway through contract/the start of our contention window. The end.

 

Just now, JM_ said:

But of course its not, and now its reduced to "anything is better than nothing". 

 

Nope. Wrong again. I still expect a typical "rental" return. See Giroux last year. We're not talking about settling for shiny beads here.

 

Just now, JM_ said:

 

 

 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Had this conversation with JM yesterday, I'm not interested in holding him for a single playoff run if him walking for nothing negatively impacts our ability to consistently gun for playoff spots.

 

I'd rather get assets for him and try to compete for a spot without him while either boosting the current roster or giving our prospect pool a much needed boost.

 

I do think its an interesting exercise tho. What level of trade return would you (or anyone else) be OK walking away from, to have the kids get the benefit of playoff experience?

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by JM_

[combover]

1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

It would be a huge mistake if they don't re-sign or trade Miller. Time will tell, JR/PA will have a lot of pressure to trade him at the TDL if he's still unsigned by then.

 

That might also be a head-scratcher - Why is JR/PA trading their best player down the stretch, when they're in the playoff hunt!? That would be terrible for the young guys wanting to get in the post-season, seeing that opportunity vanish.  So confusing as to what they might do. I really hope there's a Miller trade soon, before camp, so there are no distractions this season and they know where they stand.

Totally agree.

The miller trade sign distraction (especially in van ) with our future media won’t help either. 
Then to do what should be done regardless of playoff implications  at the TDL with our owners… good luck. 
 

The best time to move in is now.