[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Strawbone]

This thread lol

 

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

This thread lol

 

Ohhhh the JTM blue balls!

[BPA]

20 minutes ago, RWJC said:

For me its more about making the playoffs to see what we truly have.

We haven’t been constructed as a post season team. We’ve basically just been built to withstand the regular season.

I don’t think we can accurately assess this team’s real potential or trajectory until we have proof of certain player performances in the post season. 

To me that’s really important when determining our future with our current pieces. 

So is it that Canucks NEED Miller to make the playoffs??

 

[T.Demko]

24 minutes ago, BPA said:

Maybe the belief of some posters is to “just make the playoffs and anything can happen”???  Sorta like the Cinderella run of STL and MTL??

 

MTL yes, but they didn't win to defy the odds, however I don't think STL was a Cinderella run.  

They may not have been the cup favorite to start the season, or an exciting offensive team, but they were built on defense and absolutely capitalized on that structure with a hot goaltender.  

 

I mean they did have very good forwards like O'Reilley, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Perron, Schenn but they had a very stellar defensive unit with Pietrangelo, Parayko, Bouwmeester, Edmundson, and Dunn.

[Ballisticsports.]

36 minutes ago, BPA said:

Maybe the belief of some posters is to “just make the playoffs and anything can happen”???  Sorta like the Cinderella run of STL and MTL??

 

That was managements "new" alternating plan approach last summer while hurting the future

I would love to have Guenther (or others) and the cap space to help with our future right now

[Gawdzukes]

22 minutes ago, RWJC said:

For me its more about making the playoffs to see what we truly have.

We haven’t been constructed as a post season team. We’ve basically just been built to withstand the regular season.

I don’t think we can accurately assess this team’s real potential or trajectory until we have proof of certain player performances in the post season. 

To me that’s really important when determining our future with our current pieces. 

This sounds all backwards. So you're going to just easily make the playoffs and put all your eggs in that basket just to test how good you are as a playoff team and then use that information to make up the choices on our future in 11 months time?

 

It just feels like there may be an important decision in there somewhere that needs to be made sooner than that.

[T.Demko]

27 minutes ago, RWJC said:

For me its more about making the playoffs to see what we truly have.

We haven’t been constructed as a post season team. We’ve basically just been built to withstand the regular season.

I don’t think we can accurately assess this team’s real potential or trajectory until we have proof of certain player performances in the post season. 

To me that’s really important when determining our future with our current pieces. 

We can do that without having to sacrifice our future by letting a blue chip trade asset walk, just so we can test the playoff water to determine what we need to push ourselves to the next level.  That is really counter productive.  

 

The bolded is exactly what some of us have been stating.  We are not constructed as a post season team with Miller in the roster, so if we have already determined that, why are we risking our blue chip trade asset to confirm what we already know?

 

Playoff experience is very important, but it will naturally come once we have, as you mentioned, constructed a post-season team.  We don't expect the Canucks to win the very year we finally build out a true playoff team, but we do expect the team to regularly make the playoffs and earn the much needed playoff experience so we can then tweak and add to get us to the promise land.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, ba;;isticsports said:

That was managements "new" alternating plan approach last summer while hurting the future

I would love to have Guenther (or others) and the cap space to help with our future right now

Goes way back with Benning.  He traded away way too many firsts, seconds, and thirds.  For two seconds (which were high in the round) we got Vey and Baertchi.  Colorado got Devon Toews got two seconds.  Benning getting Miller cost us a great deal too.  Then giving up more high picks for OEL and Garland.  Now the new management is trying to fix all that mess. 

[J-Dizzle]

43 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

STL was already considered a contender (who just had a very poor first half of the season). Similar case to LA in 2012.

 

No Cinderella team has won a cup in the cap era. We absolutely should not be going for this approach.

I agree with you on St. Louis, not so sure about LA. 
 

edit: not sure I would call Boston a Cinderella team, but I also don’t remember them being a ‘contender’ the year they beat us. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by J-Dizzle

[T.Demko]

51 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

You can call it throwing whatever that sticks but that’s not what I’m doing. It’s true. It’s a team sport. You can have Hedman on your team but it’s meaningless if you don’t have proper coaching/system and when the forwards don’t comeback to help.
 

I will also not deny and have never denied that I want Miller to stay. In fact I’m very vocal about keeping him so I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

That is exactly what I'm saying grandmaster.  There is nothing wrong in saying you want Miller to stay because he is your favorite player.  As a fan, you are entitled to that, and it is something no one can refute because it is your preference, your opinion.  No one is going to argue stating he isn't your favorite player.

 

However, stating things like you can have Hedman on your team but it's meaningless without a proper coaching / system is plain silly.  Not because your bit about having forwards not coming back to help isn't true, but because the exact logic can be applied about JT Miller, or for any forward in general.  Just as you have stated many times, hockey is a team sport, where team defense exists, team offense exists just the same.  I'm stating you can't be putting out things like that to justify your narrative while completely ignoring that there is just an equal end of the opposite spectrum.

Edited August 14, 2022 by T.Demko

[Gawdzukes]

20 minutes ago, T.Demko said:

We can do that without having to sacrifice our future by letting a blue chip trade asset walk, just so we can test the playoff water to determine what we need to push ourselves to the next level.  That is really counter productive.  

 

The bolded is exactly what some of us have been stating.  We are not constructed as a post season team with Miller in the roster, so if we have already determined that, why are we risking our blue chip trade asset to confirm what we already know?

 

Playoff experience is very important, but it will naturally come once we have, as you mentioned, constructed a post-season team.  We don't expect the Canucks to win the very year we finally build out a true playoff team, but we do expect the team to regularly make the playoffs and earn the much needed playoff experience so we can then tweak and add to get us to the promise land.

Nicely said!

 

If Miller isn't traded and we lose in the first round as compared to not making the playoffs is it going to change what we do moving forward? It shouldn't. Like you said we already know what we need. In addition, if Miller is ultimately going elsewhere wouldn't it be better to play the season with what we have moving forward and use this season to better asses our needs, while getting a much needed return to help replace him?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Master Mind]

30 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

I agree with you on St. Louis, not so sure about LA. 
 

edit: not sure I would call Boston a Cinderella team, but I also don’t remember them being a ‘contender’ the year they beat us. 

LA was considered a contender at the start of the year, but like STL, they underachieved in the regular season. We were really unlucky to get them in round 1.

 

Boston was definitely a contender in 2011. 

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

If cup winners let people walk for free, then if we let everybody walk for free, we will win all the cups?

Or is correlation not causation?

 

 

[stawns]

55 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

That was managements "new" alternating plan approach last summer while hurting the future

I would love to have Guenther (or others) and the cap space to help with our future right now

To some degree, I agree.  JB was going for the playoffs, as he should have been, over the last two seasons and he gave up some future to do it.  I honestly think JB had every intention of trading Miller, to make up that sacrifice, after the young core got a couple seasons of playoff experience.........they got one and just missed out on the other.  I do think his overall vision was sound, he just held on to the coach too long and got burned. 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by stawns

[cripplereh]

Ok the one player we need is a rhd to play with QH in a trade.I said this before Miller and Poolman to Boston for Carlo ,a 1st and young prospect.If true that Miller has built a home in the NY area he would be close to home and Boston signing their other two centers would help as Miller is there in case of injury to one and he can play wing.They look like they are taking one last run and this would help them.Plus help us in a partner for QH and our top two D pairing would be awesome.The players we brought in would help in the points from Miller going and we should be all around better.I know nobody likes Boston but this trade would help both teams.

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, T.Demko said:

We can do that without having to sacrifice our future by letting a blue chip trade asset walk, just so we can test the playoff water to determine what we need to push ourselves to the next level.  That is really counter productive.  

the Miller trade return rumours haven't been anything close to that kind of return.

 

1 hour ago, T.Demko said:

 

The bolded is exactly what some of us have been stating.  We are not constructed as a post season team with Miller in the roster, so if we have already determined that, why are we risking our blue chip trade asset to confirm what we already know?

 

who's "we"?

 

1 hour ago, T.Demko said:

 

Playoff experience is very important, but it will naturally come once we have, as you mentioned, constructed a post-season team.  We don't expect the Canucks to win the very year we finally build out a true playoff team, but we do expect the team to regularly make the playoffs and earn the much needed playoff experience so we can then tweak and add to get us to the promise land.

a lot of assumptions about the teams abilities....  they were playoff calibre under Boudreau, and now the F group has had significant upgrades. We don't know what they are yet. I don't see how you can say that until you've seen what they can do leading up to the TDL.

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by JM_

[JM_]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

5-6 years until they could reach true contender status........and that's going to be with or without Miller, imo.  Once you start regularly making the playoffs, it takes multiple runs to get to the point where you're a top 4 contender.

6 years ?

 

if thats true, then this team needs to be blown up and we need to start over. 

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

So is it that Canucks NEED Miller to make the playoffs??

 

Would he help? Absolutely!

 

Does having him guarantee anything?

Nope.

 

I’m all for trading him. I think it’s imperative we capitalize on it and use those assets to place within a 2-3 year window. I’m not for planning beyond that time frame with this roster makeup right now. 
 

I believe we can still make the playoffs with trading him, and whether it’s through that trade or by other measures - like utilizing the saved cap space - we embolden the depth on this roster.

 

We will not win if we don’t play by committee with whom we have right now. I also don’t have the desire to place the bulk of aspirations on EP just yet. 
 

I want us to improve overall team depth, even at the cost of what JTM does bring to our table. With that depth improved, I want to see us in the playoffs within 2 seasons max. 
 

From there, we can assess the team character and if we have enough players with the attributes required to persevere and succeed in the post season. 
 

regular season stats and points are great. Doesn’t mean sh!t if you can’t translate it in the post. That’s why finding out what we have asap is so important to me. 

im not saying put all the chips in make a miracle run either. I’m saying we have the skill set to be a playoff team, so let’s constructively add to it by some subtraction and see who emerges and takes this team to the next level. That’s why we have a young core…to give them the chance to prove they will be capable of guiding this team into the future.

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, T.Demko said:

We can do that without having to sacrifice our future by letting a blue chip trade asset walk, just so we can test the playoff water to determine what we need to push ourselves to the next level.  That is really counter productive.  

 

The bolded is exactly what some of us have been stating.  We are not constructed as a post season team with Miller in the roster, so if we have already determined that, why are we risking our blue chip trade asset to confirm what we already know?

 

Playoff experience is very important, but it will naturally come once we have, as you mentioned, constructed a post-season team.  We don't expect the Canucks to win the very year we finally build out a true playoff team, but we do expect the team to regularly make the playoffs and earn the much needed playoff experience so we can then tweak and add to get us to the promise land.

I think you guys are missing what my point was. I just responded to @Gawdzukes sarcastic post about playoffs and experience. 
 

I’m pro-trading JTM to build that depth and assist in strengthening our weaknesses. And I’m for it because a team without him but overall potentially more capable, can get us into the post to see what we then have on our roster, how they adapt to the post game, and who had the character and heart to emerge as the new leadership core.

 

everybody wants to assume that EP and QH will be future leaders just because they have great IQ and put up pts. 
I for one am not sold that translates to what we require as true “leadership”.

 

The Kreiders, Jenners, Bergerons of the league are the type of players we are going to require to get to the post and lead consistently and it’s important  to acquire them now so they grow into the role. 
 

We have a glaring need to capture that identity asap. Then we will become a consistent playoff threat. 
 

JTM is that player, but unfortunately the timing is off and it’s best we get all the bang for our buck from him right now.

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

This sounds all backwards. So you're going to just easily make the playoffs and put all your eggs in that basket just to test how good you are as a playoff team and then use that information to make up the choices on our future in 11 months time?

 

It just feels like there may be an important decision in there somewhere that needs to be made sooner than that.

Not at all what I said or meant. 
I explained a bit further in most recent posts and hope that clarifies my stance on it. I agree with you, haha! I’m just debating playoff experience meaning more that you’re giving it credit for.