[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Harold Drunken]

9 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

BB wasn't brought back to coach a developing team. He got JB's team close to a playoff spot, but Horvat's injury prevented most of that from happening.

BB was brought in to coach a young core that lost it's confidence. He was brought in to change the culture and point the team in the right direction. Whether this team is developing is another discussion completely. We aren't a contender so I could make a pretty solid argument this IS a developing team...is it not?

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

BB wasn't brought back to coach a developing team. He got JB's team close to a playoff spot, but Horvat's injury prevented most of that from happening.

Was BB brought back though?  It was his option to take this year of his contract.  We all love BB but maybe he’s not JR/Allvin’s First choice.  I’m wondering if Mike Yoe is our next head coach? 

[Harold Drunken]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Was BB brought back though?  It was his option to take this year of his contract.  We all love BB but maybe he’s not JR/Allvin’s First choice.  I’m wondering if Mike Yoe is our next head coach? 

Exactly, good point.

[mll]

32 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

With just over $2 million in cap room, there's not much they can do regardless unless it means moving contracts out. But that means players leaving. Some folks on here want more cap room and want to add more players but they also don't want to see anyone traded. You can't get one without the other when your cash strapped and some on here want it both ways. This team still have to fill out it's 4th line.

 

Pearson $3.25

Dickinson $2.625

Poolman $2.5

Myers $6

 

= $14.375m

 

Some think Myers can't be replaced, fact of the matter is that he can if we just had a little more cap to spend. $4-6 could be spent on a defenseman with comparable defensive play to Myers? You would 100% have to replace him though, this is all to create cap space mind you. It really depends what you're trying to achieve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are trying to move contracts out, but it sounds like the ones they want to move out aren't all that desirable, with Rutherford indicating that they would have to attach futures.  

[Scottydzik]

34 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

With just over $2 million in cap room, there's not much they can do regardless unless it means moving contracts out. But that means players leaving. Some folks on here want more cap room and want to add more players but they also don't want to see anyone traded. You can't get one without the other when your cash strapped and some on here want it both ways. This team still have to fill out it's 4th line.

 

Pearson $3.25

Dickinson $2.625

Poolman $2.5

Myers $6

 

= $14.375m

 

Some think Myers can't be replaced, fact of the matter is that he can if we just had a little more cap to spend. $4-6 could be spent on a defenseman with comparable defensive play to Myers? You would 100% have to replace him though, this is all to create cap space mind you. It really depends what you're trying to achieve.

 

 

 

 

 

No one would blink if Pearson Dickson Garland are traded 

[grandmaster]

Just now, Alflives said:

Was BB brought back though?  It was his option to take this year of his contract.  We all love BB but maybe he’s not JR/Allvin’s First choice.  I’m wondering if Mike Yoe is our next head coach? 

BB is old as hell. It’s in no one’s interest to keep him more than one season at a time. Not even BB should want more than one at a time! 
 

I love BB. He is like that happy uncle that everyone loves. He brings good positive energy and has decades of knowledge, skills and abilities to be an excellent coach.

[Harold Drunken]

Just now, mll said:

 

They are trying to move contracts out, but it sounds like the ones they want to move out aren't all that desirable, with Rutherford indicating that they would have to attach futures.  

Totally agree, kind of natural that the contracts we want to move out aren't desirable. Arizona has offered to take some of them, but of course would have to include a prospect or pick.....which is the lesser of those evils?

[Harold Drunken]

3 minutes ago, Scottydzik said:

No one would blink if Pearson Dickson Garland are traded 

I wouldn't mind seeing Garland get another chance with a full year with BB and consistent line mates. 52P in 77 games isn't terrible considering the year this team had and change.

 

I also wouldn't be disappointed if we moved him either, kind of in the middle on that one. Peasron, Poolman and Dickinson should be moved if there's a fair offer 100%

Edited July 12, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[ilduce39]

19 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Problem is, being a competitive playoff team while making the playoffs every year while adding young talent and re-stocking the cupboards doesn't really go hand in hand.

 

Also, you can't remain competitive, make the playoffs, restock the pool and clear cap space all at the same time - that would be very very difficult to juggle. Teams making the playoffs and pushing to compete aren't clearing large amounts of cap space - they are typically making trades to get better now which often involves picks and prospects.  

 

They are also on record many times saying one of their top priorities is creating cap flexibility - so cap space is not a low priority, it's very high.

High but not high enough to come down from their ask on Myers(!) or add assets to move guys out. 
 

I think you’re projecting your own beliefs on what the team should do onto current management.  Unless something drastic happens, they pretty clearly see themselves as entering a competitive phase.  They’ve done nothing to show they’re aggressively chasing or prioritizing cap space or futures besides some lip service. 
 

If they move Miller (or another core piece) for pure futures I’ll change my mind but I don’t see it happening.

[NHL97OneTimer]

6 hours ago, Goal:thecup said:

Yes it is.

Can't win the Cup without it, and the entire organization learns from it.

I think you missed my point.....making the first or second round and then losing your best player for nothing is not worth it.  Losing Miller for nothing would be a huge step backwards at this point.  Without him this year, the Canucks would not have been close to the playoffs regardless of the coaching change.

[stawns]

42 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

With just over $2 million in cap room, there's not much they can do regardless unless it means moving contracts out. But that means players leaving. Some folks on here want more cap room and want to add more players but they also don't want to see anyone traded. You can't get one without the other when your cash strapped and some on here want it both ways. This team still have to fill out it's 4th line.

 

Pearson $3.25

Dickinson $2.625

Poolman $2.5

Myers $6

 

= $14.375m

 

Some think Myers can't be replaced, fact of the matter is that he can if we just had a little more cap to spend. $4-6 could be spent on a defenseman with comparable defensive play to Myers? You would 100% have to replace him though, this is all to create cap space mind you. It really depends what you're trying to achieve.

 

 

 

 

 

Myers can be replaced, but it'll cost just as much

[Harold Drunken]

10 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

High but not high enough to come down from their ask on Myers(!) or add assets to move guys out. 
 

I think you’re projecting your own beliefs on what the team should do onto current management.  Unless something drastic happens, they pretty clearly see themselves as entering a competitive phase.  They’ve done nothing to show they’re aggressively chasing or prioritizing cap space or futures besides some lip service. 
 

If they move Miller (or another core piece) for pure futures I’ll change my mind but I don’t see it happening.

Nope, as I've said multiple times now I'm just quoting what management has been on record (Radio, TV) saying they want to do. I can post some links to them saying this, with their own mouths if you don't believe me? Not really sure what there is to argue here lol 

 

You can go on Youtube and watch some of their interviews, they are pretty clear what the path going forward is, 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Coconuts]

14 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Problem is, being a competitive playoff team while making the playoffs every year while adding young talent and re-stocking the cupboards doesn't really go hand in hand.

 

Also, you can't remain competitive, make the playoffs, restock the pool and clear cap space all at the same time - that would be very very difficult to juggle. Teams making the playoffs and pushing compete aren't clearing large amounts of cap space - they are typically making trades to get better now which often involves picks and prospects.  

 

They are also on record many times saying one of their top priorities is creating cap flexibility - so cap space is not a low priority, it's very high.

And we're caught in the middle, not good enough to contend but not bad enough to build up properly. Mediocrity, no man's land, it's the worst place to be. I'd rather be bad and build things up gradually than be a mediocre team that hovers around the bottom of the playoff bar but either misses out completely or just barely squeaks in and gets bounced in the first round.

 

I'm tired of mediocre, we've been mediocre for years despite Benning's efforts to not be mediocre. I don't see this team, as currently structured, changing that. We aren't contenders and this roster, prospect pool, and organization as a whole need a lotttt of work. We've been seeing some of that with shuffled in management, scouting, ect. Now we need more.

 

9 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

BB wasn't brought back to coach a developing team. He got JB's team close to a playoff spot, but Horvat's injury prevented most of that from happening.

Boudreau likely isn't a long term option either, don't get too hung up on what Bruce is or isn't. He can't, and won't, coach forever.

 

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

The point is the return was very low for the asset they had. Sorry if you don’t like the rhetoric. 
‘They should have been able to mine much more than a first, second and down the row third. They should have been able to get at least a first, a first round level established prospect and probably a decent asset on top of that. 
The 7th OA was the only piece they got of significant value for a player of this level and that is just bad management that also depresses the market for us. 
This was a 24 year old 40+ goal scorer (an actual one not a “30” goal scorer like Brock) under control for several more years. That would have been a barely acceptable/poor return for JTM much less a younger, contract controlled player who has had a better early career. 

Players are only worth as much as the market is willing to pay, if Chicago could have gotten a better deal it's likely they would have taken it. I don't doubt Chicago's management was working the phones. For whatever reason Chicago didn't see him as part of their future, whether it's because he'd cost more than they'd like or because of concerns about his willingness to sign long-term with a team that's clearly rebuilding. We don't know. But what we do know is Chicago values first round picks, and so do other clubs given their general unwillingness to trade them.

 

5 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

JR and PA are on record multiple times stating they want to clear cap space and it's a high priority...don't know how else to say that - it's from their mouths not mine.

 

Demko masked a ton of faults and holes. He made this team look better than it is on paper. This team nowhere near the playoffs if he doesn't stand on his head night in and night out. That doesn't mean we are a good playoff team, means he have an amazing goalie who props us up higher than we should be. We are moving in the right direction and our young core is locked up, but pieces need to be added...which is hard with $2million in cap space. 

I'm disappointed we haven't been able to, Rutherford has a reputation for making fair trades so it's concerning that we've seen such little movement from management. 

 

Demko masks a lot of holes for this team though, absolutely. Rutherford himself has commented on it. If not for Demko we aren't even a fringe playoff team last season, folks key in on Miller's 99 points but he's not the player I view as last season's Canuck MVP.

 

Without Demko playing out of his mind more often than not we see the real results of the roster in place. Yes, Demko is part of the team and it's his job to stop pucks, but he carries this team on his back far more than he should have to.

[ilduce39]

Pearson is a vet who slots in nicely into the middle 6, he’s earning his money and only had 2 more years of commitment.  
 

Sure you clear his 3 mil but unless there’s a clear plan to chase a stud why not keep the guy who fits into the room and is performing at a minimal commitment.  A guy like that people want shipped off I can see why management isn’t in a hurry to do so.

[Harold Drunken]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Myers can be replaced, but it'll cost just as much

I'm not convinced we couldn't sign someone for $4-4.5 that would come in and play sound defensively in a similar way. Its modest savings but money is money.

 

Jan Rutta (very solid year for Tampa, big/physical and kills penalties)

Colin Miller

Ian Cole

 

They would be less than $6 to sign - probably half that.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Attila Umbrus]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

it makes sense to me to not allow Miller to determine his landing spot right now on a one-off basis, which is what allowing Lou Lam to talk to the agent would do. 

 

But if they are now opening it up to everyone, that is interesting. We could even use that info to make a fair extension with him ourselves if we like the numbers other teams are putting forward. At least we'd have real comp's to work with. 

 

My thoughts as well. It echos what JR has said all along. That he won’t rush this along. We have time to try and get this right. Of course if this goes on till the trade deadline I will personally be disappointed. I don’t want it to be a distraction for the team. 

[DrJockitch]

Part of the reasons it will take so long to fix the issues are that we can’t continue to buy-out Benning’s mistakes.
We don’t have the caps or pics thanks to Benning spending them to try to fix his previous round of mistakes. 

We all assume JTM trade is best way to accelerate this but if the offers weren’t there then best thing to do was to hold on and continue to negotiate. 
That being said they have had a few chances to change things up and haven’t other than releasing some of Benning’s players so that we can at least rotate around 4th liners and flipping around Hamonic/Dermott making us smaller and less tough. 
Not a proponent for Hamonic and was a great trade but the end result was running backwards in size and toughness which we were already lacking. 
I am frustrated because how little has changed not because any specific moves have or haven’t been made. Fudging around in the margins is not going to fix this team it needs a shake and solid firm kick in the ass that trading one of their “stars” would represent. Just need the right deal to come 

[NHL97OneTimer]

13 hours ago, R3aL said:

I liked Gillis. 
 

he wasn’t perfect. But he did a lot of great things in cultivating, building and facilitating the greatest team in franchise history. 
 

I do think he deserves a second chance in the league and I hope he gets that. He really pushes things and I think an org would be lucky to have him. Especially if they are stuck, want to change things up and try some of his different ideas. 

He added some important secondary pieces, but the core (and the difference makers) were already in place from before he arrived.  Same with the coach AV.  The problem I had with Gillis is that his drafting was as atrocious as a GM in the history of the league could have been (I may be exaggerating, but maybe not?!!!).  Even with drafting later each round, I would have expected more.  He left the cupboards gutted.....all in for the cup for one year.  This team badly needs a GM who can build a team with a 5-8 year window if possible......that's really what you need for a cup.  Unfortunately Gillis' bare cupboards and lengthy contracts left Benning with a bad hand. 

 

Benning wasn't great with the trades & signings, but he could draft.  Too bad he didn't build a bigger management team to help out.

[ilduce39]

3 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Nope, I'm just quoting what management has been on record (Radio, TV) saying they want to do. I can post some links to them saying this, with their own mouths if you don't believe me? Not really sure what there is to argue here lol 

 

You can go on Youtube and watch some of their interviews, they are pretty clear what the path going forward is, 

I’ve heard and seen a lot of it but it really sounds like lip service in the face of their actions. 
 

They trimmed a little fat with Hamonic and sold the driver of their 4th line in Motte for pocket change.  Re-signed Boeser. They’re publicly all in on Horvat and apparently making a real effort to keep Miller.  They aren’t interested in trading Myers unless it’s for assets.  They’re high on Poolman and see him as part of the future if he can get healthy.   Won’t give up assets to move out a Dickinson.
 

I don’t see cap space as a priority with this group.

[Harold Drunken]

1 minute ago, ilduce39 said:

I’ve heard and seen a lot of it but it really sounds like lip service in the face of their actions. 
 

They trimmed a little fat with Hamonic and sold the driver of their 4th line in Motte for pocket change.  Re-signed Boeser. They’re publicly all in on Horvat and apparently making a real effort to keep Miller.  They aren’t interested in trading Myers unless it’s for assets.  They’re high on Poolman and see him as part of the future if he can get healthy.   Won’t give up assets to move out a Dickinson.
 

I don’t see cap space as a priority with this group.

That's quite shocking since we are in a terrible situation but all good my friend.