[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

True that.  So why not trade Miller at the 2022 deadline then?  Wasn't their a decent offer on the table from the Rangers?

I'm not sure we have clarity on that. It sounds to me like we've never got a firm offer, just tire kicking. 

 

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

JR said he didn't trade Miller because they were in a playoff hunt.  That sounds like a familiar theme no?

JR isn't Benning. Not sure why this is becoming a theme here. 

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

True that.  So why not trade Miller at the 2022 deadline then?  Wasn't their a decent offer on the table from the Rangers?

 

JR said he didn't trade Miller because they were in a playoff hunt.  That sounds like a familiar theme no?

Not the same, year left in contract. 
‘Who knows if any of the rumoured deals were real and the NYR wasn’t an earth shaker. 

[Fanuck]

20 hours ago, stawns said:

While letting his value slip further and further and further until they'll just have to take whatever they can get

 

 

15 hours ago, stawns said:

I never understand why people get so worked up.aboyt ownership having a say........he's the boss, he pays everyone so of course he wants things done to his vision.

Like you said, if ownership is fine with keeping the asset until they're UFA and potentially gone, then it's his vision. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

 

Like you said, if ownership is fine with keeping the asset until they're UFA and potentially gone, then it's his vision. 

disagree. That would imply that he's calling the shots and I don't believe that to be even remotely true

[VegasCanuck]

7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The Canucks have sucked for close to 10 years and yet the valuation of the team and the land the rink sits on has gone up by hundreds of millions of dollars.  Gillis tried to tell the owner we needed to rebuild and he got fired.  Linden also tried to tell the owner we needed a rebuild and he got fired for it as well.  Benning was the yes man and stuck around for 8 years even though our team was crap.  The only reason he got fired is because someone threw a jersey onto the ice and Aquilini was embarrassed beyond belief and couldn't keep Benning around even for one more day.

 

Yet you claim that in order for Aquilini to make money and keep his asset appreciating in value he needs to listen to the President.  He didn't listen to the President the last 2 times, what makes you think he is going to listen to him this time?

Partially because he didn't replace the team President and let Benning have too much control and not enough around him.

 

So, I want you to stop and think about what you're suggesting;

 

Please keep the following in mind, while you are thinking about it: Jim Rutherford was essentially living in retirement when Aqualini asked him to run the team. He has multiple cup rings from running a team in the NHL, he's an accomplished and proven builder of teams and has nothing to prove.

 

So, with the above in mind, you REALLY think that Aqualini went to Rutherford's home, something that Rutherford has stated publicly that he was impressed that this billionaire showed up, essentially hat in hand. Tells him that he needs someone who is a proven leader and team builder to move to Vancouver at the age of 73, uproot his retirement to build a management team and structure that will keep the Canucks competitive and have them as a consistent playoff contender for years to come. Offers Rutherford control of the team, he answers to Aqualini only.

 

Then tells him that he's not allowed to make any MAJOR moves without picking up the phone and calling him for approval first...

 

Rutherford would tell him, thank you very much, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out....

 

Aqualini chose wrong when he made Gillis both President and GM, he was clearly better suited to President and let someone else make day to day team personal decisions within the team plan.

Aqualini chose to let Benning continue after Linden left, without a guiding President on board to oversee general team structure. This was a bad decision, but I understand why it was made. I don't believe that Benning was that bad of a GM, he had his strengths (drafting) and his weaknesses, (team structure), the same as all GM's. It's why you build the type of structure that Rutherford has put in place. Very diversified group and talents with lots of different ideas and respected voices in the room.

 

I'm not saying that Aqualini and Rutherford don't talk about team direction and what's being done, but don't kid yourself, Rutherford would not be here if he wasn't trusted to make all team decisions in terms of trades and management structure.

[Fanuck]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

disagree. That would imply that he's calling the shots and I don't believe that to be even remotely true

I don't think FA is consulted when Allvin signs a guy like MDP to his qualifying offer,  but I'm pretty confident ownership would be in (consulted, not asked for permission) on any conversation that would involve trading a prime asset like Miller mid-season or at TDL.  

[kodos]

42 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I believe it was Allvin who said that the Canucks would not let a player (JT) walk for nothing and that they would get something for him if he wasn't re-signing.

 

We'll see.  I think that JT will ask for top dollar and term, because he's not playing in the US, which is where he may prefer to play anyway. 

 

Miller to COL for Byram and 1st (2023). Call it a day.

COL wouldn’t do Byram straight up.

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I don't think FA is consulted when Allvin signs a guy like MDP to his qualifying offer,  but I'm pretty confident ownership would be in (consulted, not asked for permission) on any conversation that would involve trading a prime asset like Miller mid-season or at TDL.  

agree there, for sure

[VegasCanuck]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

True that.  So why not trade Miller at the 2022 deadline then?  Wasn't their a decent offer on the table from the Rangers?

 

JR said he didn't trade Miller because they were in a playoff hunt.  That sounds like a familiar theme no?

This is a decision that ANY good manager would make. There was ZERO urgency to move Miller at the deadline, they felt that he would have better value in the summer and they are probably right in that. Miller isn't walking away in free agency next week, he's under a REALLY good contract for another year. WHY would you undermine your own trading position by panicking and accepting a trade that you don't believe is in the best long term interest of the team if there's zero urgency to do so.

 

JR is a patient guy, that's why he managed to build a really solid team around a couple of star players.

 

We have similar setup right now to what Pittsburgh had years ago, we have a solid core of really good talent (Pettersson, Hughes and Demko).

 

The right additions and subtractions to those 3 guys, at the right time, can take this team to the cup.

 

Everyone needs to calm down and stop thinking short term.

 

The teams that NEED Miller are coming into better focus as Free Agency settles down into the Summer. I believe that Miller will be gone by the time camp opens, but that trade and the moves necessary by other teams to make a trade with us for Miller are likely still in motion and take time to negotiate and execute. This isn't EA NHL, things aren't instant in real world, management structure or in a league of 32 teams with multi-team dynamics to consider.

[MeanSeanBean]

36 minutes ago, JM_ said:

the Guddy deal was a unicorn. 

 

We get the money for the d upgrades because of our young winger depth, pretty much the only place we have depth at the moment. We have good potential for cheap ELCs and bridge deals with Klimovich, Karlsson, Lockwood, and maybe McDonough, and continue with good depth signings like Joshua (assuming that works out).

 

I'd call that ok depth, not good. To me good depth is Byram coming in to fill in for injuries. I agree wingers are our best asset, but I also think its realistically the least important part of the puzzle. Center and defensemen are far more important to have, imo. I wish I had the optimism you seem to have about this team, but after watching the playoffs this year I just don't see how this team wins a cup as its currently constructed. Having depth D playing with Hughes (and OEL if we trade Myers) isn't how we can contend. I love this team, but I don't see it being ready to compete as is.

[flat land fish]

6 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

This is a decision that ANY good manager would make. There was ZERO urgency to move Miller at the deadline, they felt that he would have better value in the summer and they are probably right in that. Miller isn't walking away in free agency next week, he's under a REALLY good contract for another year. WHY would you undermine your own trading position by panicking and accepting a trade that you don't believe is in the best long term interest of the team if there's zero urgency to do so.

 

JR is a patient guy, that's why he managed to build a really solid team around a couple of star players.

 

We have similar setup right now to what Pittsburgh had years ago, we have a solid core of really good talent (Pettersson, Hughes and Demko).

 

The right additions and subtractions to those 3 guys, at the right time, can take this team to the cup.

 

Everyone needs to calm down and stop thinking short term.

 

The teams that NEED Miller are coming into better focus as Free Agency settles down into the Summer. I believe that Miller will be gone by the time camp opens, but that trade and the moves necessary by other teams to make a trade with us for Miller are likely still in motion and take time to negotiate and execute. This isn't EA NHL, things aren't instant in real world, management structure or in a league of 32 teams with multi-team dynamics to consider.

Some good points.  Most of the contenders have burnt up their cap space.  If they are serious about improving their team few players drive the value for dollar that JT millet does.

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

If there's one thing you can say about FA, it's that he cares about the team and the City .........he wants to bring a Cup to Vancouver.  He has every right to be involved in the organization, but I doubt he has "final say" on trades, he trusts those he hires.  That said, I'm sure he likes to be in the loop and part of the discussions, why wouldn't he?  He's the boss after all

Yeah, I mean, he has spent a fortune on the front office staff.  There's a ton of talent in the organization now.  We just hope that translates to the product on the ice.

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

This is a decision that ANY good manager would make. There was ZERO urgency to move Miller at the deadline, they felt that he would have better value in the summer and they are probably right in that. Miller isn't walking away in free agency next week, he's under a REALLY good contract for another year. WHY would you undermine your own trading position by panicking and accepting a trade that you don't believe is in the best long term interest of the team if there's zero urgency to do so.

 

JR is a patient guy, that's why he managed to build a really solid team around a couple of star players.

 

We have similar setup right now to what Pittsburgh had years ago, we have a solid core of really good talent (Pettersson, Hughes and Demko).

 

The right additions and subtractions to those 3 guys, at the right time, can take this team to the cup.

 

Everyone needs to calm down and stop thinking short term.

 

The teams that NEED Miller are coming into better focus as Free Agency settles down into the Summer. I believe that Miller will be gone by the time camp opens, but that trade and the moves necessary by other teams to make a trade with us for Miller are likely still in motion and take time to negotiate and execute. This isn't EA NHL, things aren't instant in real world, management structure or in a league of 32 teams with multi-team dynamics to consider.

You make some points and I do agree with them. 
 

However, a lot of people felt that the best time to trade Miller was at the 2022 TDL. Also, by all accounts they had a deal at the draft with the Islanders that fell apart. Also, most hockey analysts are in agreement that there is not alot of interest in Miller right now. Even JR said there isn’t much going on. 
 

A lot of teams have already made their moves for next season. There isn’t as many options out there now to move Miller as you might think. 
 

I guess we will see what happens and when it does we can talk about it. My hunch is also that Miller will be moved before camp. However the return may not be as great as some people think. 

[BertaNuck]

Teams might be interested in Miller on a extension but Miller may be asking to much stalling the process 

 

miller could be treating it like a NTC and dictating where he goes

Edited July 15, 2022 by AlphaNuck

[higgyfan]

36 minutes ago, mll said:

Joseph is now waiver eligible.  They have too many Ds.

If the Canucks take him, won't they be in the same situation?  He's not good enough to be in the NHL, so would

only play just a few games.  They already have the LD they need for the upcoming season and all of them are

able to play the NHL game.

 

If the Canucks have to take Joseph, it should have little effect on their trade proposal. 

 

Miller for Marino +Bluger + Poulin + Joseph $.825 (if they must).

[JM_]

15 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

I'd call that ok depth, not good. To me good depth is Byram coming in to fill in for injuries. I agree wingers are our best asset, but I also think its realistically the least important part of the puzzle. Center and defensemen are far more important to have, imo. I wish I had the optimism you seem to have about this team, but after watching the playoffs this year I just don't see how this team wins a cup as its currently constructed. Having depth D playing with Hughes (and OEL if we trade Myers) isn't how we can contend. I love this team, but I don't see it being ready to compete as is.

in 3-4 years we may just have that kind of D depth. I just don't see how we rush that unless we're willing to blow the team up, a Miller deal can only do so much. 

[VegasCanuck]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You make some points and I do agree with them. 
 

However, a lot of people felt that the best time to trade Miller was at the 2022 TDL. Also, by all accounts they had a deal at the draft with the Islanders that fell apart. Also, most hockey analysts are in agreement that there is not alot of interest in Miller right now. Even JR said there isn’t much going on. 
 

A lot of teams have already made their moves for next season. There isn’t as many options out there now to move Miller as you might think. 
 

I guess we will see what happens and when it does we can talk about it. My hunch is also that Miller will be moved before camp. However the return may not be as great as some people think. 

The only people who thought it was the best time to trade Miller are guys in the media, who are just slightly above the guy who mops out the team locker room every day in terms of how seriously an actual team owner would view them as realistic candidates to act as GM for an actual NHL Team. If Miller's contract was ending this summer, as was Tyler Motte, then sure, you move him at the deadline and you negotiate with the 1 or 2 teams who can actually create the cap space to take him and get the best deal you can.

 

If you've got a FULL year before his contract expires, you take your time and wait for summer when you have 5 to 7 teams who REALLY need him and you work the phones with them and you find a solution that fits both teams. Those negotiations sometimes involve teams like Arizona and Seattle, who have space and are looking to improve by taking on a contract that you need to move to make room for someone who makes your team better.

 

This summer IS the best time to move him, he has a full year left on a REALLY good cap hit, he's verging on being a 100 point guy. We could wait till next trade deadline, but I really don't believe that we will, we'll be back to not just 1 or 2 teams that can afford him, but then we really are into a position of him being a rental player.

 

[VegasCanuck]

5 minutes ago, AlphaNuck said:

Teams might be interested in Miller on a extension but Miller may be asking to much stalling the process 

 

miller could be treating it like a NTC and dictating where he goes

Agree completely, I do believe that's what killed the negotiations with NYI, Miller's side may very well have an inflated number for teams he doesn't want to sign long term with.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[JM_]

.

Edited July 15, 2022 by JM_