[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

a rebuild likely means less revenue even IF fans are on board. I don’t think that’s necessarily a good reason not to do it, but I think we as fans may not always realize the level of commitment it may take from an ownership group to let that happen. 
 

‘We can handle a rebuild’ may often be followed by… I’ll just not watch as many games which would be exactly the reason ownership may be hesitant (fair or not). 

I'm already not watching as many games. This middling, non winning hockey, low effort garbage is unwatchable most nights against anything but bottom feeders.

 

I'd actually watch more if there was a plan in place and we had exciting young kids I can watch develop (like we did with Hughes and Pettersson). Even more so if there's something resembling actual effort out there for anything near 60 minutes from more than a few guys.

[86Viking]

Always liked Carolina as a trade target due to their prospects they have...

 

Scott Morrow is their young RHD prospect and then they have this LHD 6'4 216lb D who was a 3rd round pick in 2020 and in 40GP in the KHL this year he has 9G 22A for 31pts named Alexander Nikishin...not too shabby of stats and closer to NHL ready likely just needs to be signed to an NHL contract. His KHL deal ends at the end of 2022/23 so this year he is eligible to sign with an NHL team who owns his rights

[86Viking]

Mttelstadt AND Newhook are 2 young C's who were drafted high and expected to fill a top 6 C role but haven't quite been able to grasp a top 6 C spot in the NHL yet. Whereas Horvat could slot onto Buffalo and Colorado and be an immediate upgrade to their #2C position. Colorado may not be abe to extend Horvat long term or could they...Johnson 6m off the books this off season I think. Where as Buffalo doesn't need Horvat as a rental but more so as a very good player they get and sign long term to bring some veteran but still relatively young in a 28 yr old Horvat signed for 7-8yrs.

 

Buffalo ain't far from Canada...I could get on board for cheering for Horvat as a Sabre but never if he ended up as a Laff for instance or an Oiler or Flame!!!

[86Viking]

Horvat to Carolina for Jack Drury and Scott Morrow!?!? Would we need to add or retain salary ( I would do for sure its only a few months he is a rental!)

 

That nets the Canucks a youngish C in Drury (22) RHD Scott Morrow (20).

 

or maybe Carolina has interest in Kuzmenko and offers 1 of the above players for Kuz at the TDL...I take it as a return for sure maybe even squeeze a pick out of them ontop of 1 of the above...greedy I know!

[saucypass]

37 minutes ago, Neutral said:

Mttelstadt AND Newhook are 2 young C's who were drafted high and expected to fill a top 6 C role but haven't quite been able to grasp a top 6 C spot in the NHL yet. Whereas Horvat could slot onto Buffalo and Colorado and be an immediate upgrade to their #2C position. Colorado may not be abe to extend Horvat long term or could they...Johnson 6m off the books this off season I think. Where as Buffalo doesn't need Horvat as a rental but more so as a very good player they get and sign long term to bring some veteran but still relatively young in a 28 yr old Horvat signed for 7-8yrs.

 

Buffalo ain't far from Canada...I could get on board for cheering for Horvat as a Sabre but never if he ended up as a Laff for instance or an Oiler or Flame!!!

I love the idea, but Nate Mack's contract doubles and will eat up all 6M of Johnson coming off the books. They'll need to make space elsewhere. Looking at their capfriendly, they're getting full value or more on all their contracts (something the Canucks should learn from) so I don't see any deadweight we could take back. If anything, all their upcoming UFAs outside of Johnson will likely need raises. JT Compher and Rodrigues are playing at more than full value. 

[5nothincanucksohno]

3 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Why wait till TDL?

Can't put most of your team up there all at once, with many other teams and get little return

Start to sell now, team will be weaker (better draft pick) get younger and optimism to grow

Can you imagine waiting til deadline to trade and Horvat or ? gets hurt and you have a Calgary situation where you overpay to keep or have a valuable asset walk for nothing

Start making changes in the new year is maybe the Canucks New Years Resolution? (of course with teams being capped and small cap increase and teams needing to resign their own players) the return will be less than in past years with probable cap retention

 

 

Just a saying, waiting up until the last minute of the TDL does not make sense. Cap space will be a problem for some teams prior to Feb but Mgmt should be soliciting teams interested in Horvat now and be ready to move in January - last thing they want to do is wait and have other trades dilute the market.

[Boknows08]

Read an article(NYIhockeynews) today stating that the Islanders inquired about Bo. Nucks sent a scout to their last game but how much weight is into that. Scouts are always at games. I wonder if Bo is the one who NYI wanted at the draft. They don’t have the younger rhd that’s attainable but many other pieces. 

 

1st, Raty, Bolduc?

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

9 hours ago, J-Dizzle said:

a rebuild likely means less revenue even IF fans are on board. I don’t think that’s necessarily a good reason not to do it, but I think we as fans may not always realize the level of commitment it may take from an ownership group to let that happen. 
 

‘We can handle a rebuild’ may often be followed by… I’ll just not watch as many games which would be exactly the reason ownership may be hesitant (fair or not). 

with all the years we've missed the playoffs wth the exception of that bubble run (which btw didn't even add in terms of team revenue), you'd think we might as well rebuild because at least the fan base would 1. have a clear message from the organization and 2. actual hope for a more bright future eventually. 

 

This whole-wishy washy schtick has gone on for near a decade and we sucked for most of it. We still went to games, paid for tickets and watched. 

If we as fans wouldn't realize the level of commitment it takes from an ownership group then how much longer would we need to wait? Forever? 

 

Look at the rangers who sent a message to their fanbase about some years back for example. Profit-wise they're more valuable than the Canucks (1/2 in the league) and in competition with other NYC sports teams like the Yankees, Knicks, Nets, Giants, Jets....etc. 

What else do we have in Vancouver? The lions and the whitecaps?

You'd think Rangers owners would be more hesitant to even think about publicizing a "rebuild letter" to their fanbase, saying that it would take time for this process to be done and to be patient in an already heavily congested sports market.

 

I understand what you're saying and of course there is the reality of the whole business/revenues.

However there is a lack of trust in the Aqulinis and their pathetic way of handling this near decade saga.

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, Neutral said:

Exactly, Sell ALL 3 of Horvat, Kuzmenko, Schenn at 2023 TDL gain a handful of good assets back and reload and hope the returns are wins for Vancouver. Can always bring back Schenn and maybe 1 of Bo or Kuz asa a UFA still...ala Antoine Vermette being traded from Arizona see below:

 

Vermette trade return when he was age 33 and netted a 1st round pick and prospect.

• 2015-Feb-28 Traded from Arizona Coyotes to Chicago Blackhawks for Klas Dahlbeck and round 1 pick in the 2015 draft (Nick Merkley)
• 2015-Jul-01 Signed by Arizona Coyotes

Then Vermette re signed as a UFA with Arizona on a 2yr 7.5m deal with a NMC/NTC.

 

Note to consider: Vermette played 82 games in 2014/15 and had 13g 25a between both Arizona and Chicago for a total of 38pts for the season.

 

So that said above, we could net a nice return for Horvat at the TDL then offer him the JT 7yr 8m contract for him to comeback on July 1st. It would bring good assets to the Canucks helping the organization...man is that not a nice gesture by both Captain Bo and the team to offer him a contract like JT on July 1 2023!?!?

lol.. bo is not re-signing in vancouver once he's traded.. 0 chance.. and why would it be a nice gesture by the team? i'm sure there's plenty of team would gladly offer the 7x8 to horvat right now.. after all the lowballing by the management.. i'm sure bo isn't a fan of JR/PA

[Rubik]

how often do captains get traded? Any examples since the 05 lockout?

Edited December 15, 2022 by Rubik

[wai_lai416]

19 minutes ago, Rubik said:

how often do captains get traded? Any examples since the 05 lockout?

very?

giroux st louis callahan phaneuf karlsson eichel richards iginla it's actually pretty long list lol

[teepain]

Horvat 50%

boeser 

to colorado

 

newhook

Sam girard

1st

 

[I.Am.Ironman]

2 hours ago, teepain said:

Horvat 50%

boeser 

to colorado

 

newhook

Sam girard

1st

 

I think we would get more trading boeser separately. Horvat at 50% will be the most sought after asset in the league this season; I don't think we should target a small/agile LHD in Girard as we already have a better version in Hughes.

[rekker]

3 hours ago, teepain said:

Horvat 50%

boeser 

to colorado

 

newhook

Sam girard

1st

 

No thanks to Girard. Part of the reason we are in this mess is that we can't develop a big shutdown Dman. We need two. 

[mll]

From Friedman's 32 Thoughts:  

 

1. I don’t believe in absolutes. Feelings change over time. What you think today might not be what you think tomorrow, and everyone should avoid emotional decisions. That said, we’re 11 weeks from the trade deadline, and it’s getting extremely hard to see Bo Horvat wearing a Johnny Canuck reverse retro past March 3. 

I don’t profess to know Horvat well, but here’s my amateur psychology: he’s very proud to be Vancouver’s captain, definitely capable of handling the Canadian microscope. But he prefers to keep the spotlight at arm’s length and does not like his business splashed over the internet like a Kardashian. Horvat won’t do the hockey equivalent of smashing 62 home runs like Aaron Judge in the all-time contract season, but he sure doesn’t seem distracted — on-pace for 59 goals heading into Wednesday’s game in Calgary. In his mind: summers are for talking, seasons are for playing. 

 

2. How did we get here? At the draft, there was league-wide consensus Horvat would be extended, with J.T. Miller’s negotiation more of a challenging escape-room puzzle. The Canucks initially indicated they saw Horvat in similar mold to Edmonton’s Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, although that was more of a conceptual thing as opposed to offering him a similar contract ($5.125 million AAV, lower than what Horvat is earning now). 

Whatever the case, there was never a time an extension appeared close. As Labour Day approached, Vancouver pivoted to Miller — reigniting talks and completing a contract out of nowhere. Because of what happened with Miller, I’m loathe to declare this over. It sounds like they’ve offered Horvat both seven- and eight-year deals, but multiple sources indicate the chasm is wide and bridging it “will be difficult.” 

They’ve definitely put him on the market, with teams indicating the Canucks are asking what you’d want for a premium rental. Tight cap situations mean there’s time to sort it out, and Vancouver could try to sign him again. The challenge as I see it is they’re not keen on going over Miller’s $56 million figure, and Horvat’s monster season puts him in position to go above that. 

 

3. Some other stuff about the Canucks: They’re determined to create cap room. That will take some creativity, but aren’t interested in moving first-rounders and would like to replace the second-rounder sent to Chicago in the Jason Dickinson-Riley Stillman deal. Elias Pettersson can be extended this summer, and even though he isn’t a UFA until July 2025, it’s already on their radar.

 

4. In Bruce Boudreau’s first 82 games as coach of the Canucks, the team had 97 points. Last year, that ties them with Nashville for the second wild card. This year, it’s slightly above the cutline. With all the craziness, you’d think Vancouver had 30 points in that span.

 

5. Was talking trades with one GM this week. “What kind of calculator are you using?” he asked. “None of this stuff is mathematically possible.”

[mll]

12 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Why wait till TDL?

Can't put most of your team up there all at once, with many other teams and get little return

Start to sell now, team will be weaker (better draft pick) get younger and optimism to grow

Can you imagine waiting til deadline to trade and Horvat or ? gets hurt and you have a Calgary situation where you overpay to keep or have a valuable asset walk for nothing

Start making changes in the new year is maybe the Canucks New Years Resolution? (of course with teams being capped and small cap increase and teams needing to resign their own players) the return will be less than in past years with probable cap retention

 

 

Horvat is apparently being traded as a pure rental and buyers hardly ever make their moves that far ahead of the TDL.  It's a cap space issue + injuries can alter a team's plan.  

[jyu]

9 minutes ago, mll said:

From Friedman's 32 Thoughts:  

 

1. I don’t believe in absolutes. Feelings change over time. What you think today might not be what you think tomorrow, and everyone should avoid emotional decisions. That said, we’re 11 weeks from the trade deadline, and it’s getting extremely hard to see Bo Horvat wearing a Johnny Canuck reverse retro past March 3. 

I don’t profess to know Horvat well, but here’s my amateur psychology: he’s very proud to be Vancouver’s captain, definitely capable of handling the Canadian microscope. But he prefers to keep the spotlight at arm’s length and does not like his business splashed over the internet like a Kardashian. Horvat won’t do the hockey equivalent of smashing 62 home runs like Aaron Judge in the all-time contract season, but he sure doesn’t seem distracted — on-pace for 59 goals heading into Wednesday’s game in Calgary. In his mind: summers are for talking, seasons are for playing. 

 

2. How did we get here? At the draft, there was league-wide consensus Horvat would be extended, with J.T. Miller’s negotiation more of a challenging escape-room puzzle. The Canucks initially indicated they saw Horvat in similar mold to Edmonton’s Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, although that was more of a conceptual thing as opposed to offering him a similar contract ($5.125 million AAV, lower than what Horvat is earning now). 

Whatever the case, there was never a time an extension appeared close. As Labour Day approached, Vancouver pivoted to Miller — reigniting talks and completing a contract out of nowhere. Because of what happened with Miller, I’m loathe to declare this over. It sounds like they’ve offered Horvat both seven- and eight-year deals, but multiple sources indicate the chasm is wide and bridging it “will be difficult.” 

They’ve definitely put him on the market, with teams indicating the Canucks are asking what you’d want for a premium rental. Tight cap situations mean there’s time to sort it out, and Vancouver could try to sign him again. The challenge as I see it is they’re not keen on going over Miller’s $56 million figure, and Horvat’s monster season puts him in position to go above that. 

 

3. Some other stuff about the Canucks: They’re determined to create cap room. That will take some creativity, but aren’t interested in moving first-rounders and would like to replace the second-rounder sent to Chicago in the Jason Dickinson-Riley Stillman deal. Elias Pettersson can be extended this summer, and even though he isn’t a UFA until July 2025, it’s already on their radar.

 

4. In Bruce Boudreau’s first 82 games as coach of the Canucks, the team had 97 points. Last year, that ties them with Nashville for the second wild card. This year, it’s slightly above the cutline. With all the craziness, you’d think Vancouver had 30 points in that span.

 

5. Was talking trades with one GM this week. “What kind of calculator are you using?” he asked. “None of this stuff is mathematically possible.”

In my opinion, getting the word out that they view Horvat as RNH level player was the end of any good will Bo had and his desire to sign a reasonable contract.

 

RNH is a great player too but that must have mad him feel unappreciated considering that RNH took a discount from his previous deal. And players are proud, they don't like having their ceiling decided by others (well, unless that ceiling is a legendary player -- then they feel humbled). Every negotiation must be approached differently with consideration of the person sitting on the other side of the table. The fact that they misjudged Bo's character and babbled things to public was a bad idea.

 

I think Horvat was probably looking for 7 mil x 8 years and he would have signed at or around that number if they approached this in the right way.

 

Anyhow, we are likely moving on unless JR and PA all of a sudden change course yet again and decides to overpay for Horvat. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they come out tomorrow and announce re-signing Bo for 8.5 mil x 8 year deal; that's how little trust I have on them at this point.

 

 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, mll said:

Horvat is apparently being traded as a pure rental and buyers hardly ever make their moves that far ahead of the TDL.  It's a cap space issue + injuries can alter a team's plan.  

There is zero chance our owner will allow a trade for futures.  JR would need to show that the futures coming back for Bo would be quickly flipped for established players to help the club "win now".  

I could definitely see Lou Lam in on Bo.  And he'd dangle Barzal.  I wouldn't want to trade Bo for that guy, but Lou would. 

[jyu]

5 minutes ago, mll said:

Horvat is apparently being traded as a pure rental and buyers hardly ever make their moves that far ahead of the TDL.  It's a cap space issue + injuries can alter a team's plan.  

True. But if a team has an expiring contract that they want to get rid of, it could work out sooner. Almost every team has one of those contracts, even the contenders.

 

I don't think the management has the green light to trade Bo for futures anyways. The owner probably wants to make the trade only if they are for sure out of the playoff race by TDL.

 

I saw Horvat for Konecny or Provorov on one of the article on the internet. That might be the type of trade they end up doing. 

 

If the deal can be made, I think the best trade partner is Colorado. Horvat for Byram + 1st or a former 1st round pick drafted between 2020-2022.

 

Byram, if healthy, will be a better player than Bo. 

 

[jyu]

Just now, Alflives said:

There is zero chance our owner will allow a trade for futures.  JR would need to show that the futures coming back for Bo would be quickly flipped for established players to help the club "win now".  

I could definitely see Lou Lam in on Bo.  And he'd dangle Barzal.  I wouldn't want to trade Bo for that guy, but Lou would. 

Why not Barzal?

 

I would trade Bo for Barzal. Petey-Barzal for the next 10 years sounds like a good idea?