What do we do? (Discussion/Poll)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Let's start this by saying, I do not "want" to trade anyone! I love our forwards, and particular, I love JT Miller (In a sports discussion type way!) and I will acknowledge that we do not have to trade anyone, if we want to run our team status quo. (No changes)

 

The "No Changes" is where this discussion starts for me. Do we simply not change any of our high end players? Filling in with fringe NHL/AHL players, like some other teams do?

 

Well, I guess the first question I ask myself, is......Is this team a playoff team, and if so, are we a Stanley Cup winning team? The second question for me is, is winning enough? Well, it's a good question, and I have to admit, that all the years we were winning with the Sedin's and Luongo, etc, I was pretty happy, but ultimately, sad when they were eliminated. 

 

So, what do I want...........well a perennial winning team that competes at the top of the league for the Stanley Cup, every year! This is what JR has said he is focused on doing, and what every Canuck fan under God's green earth, wants!

 

Well, How do we do that and how long will it take? (I only have so many years left!)

 

The second thing that enters my mind, is the question of do we have the talent in the system to do what we need? Well, it is my opinion, we only have secondary players that will fill bottom 6, and 3rd pairing Dmen. I would also question whether we have a goalie prospect that can push Demko down the road.

 

This leads me to saying we are very incomplete team at this point, in terms of longevity.

 

So, let us see what you think, either through the attached poll, or through your comments................

Edited January 3, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N

[drummer4now]

My take is it will take another 5-10 years to be competitive.. similar to what we experienced in the early 2000s to 2011….

 

 

We need to trade minimal and develop through the draft the correct way by not trading anymore 1st rounders and drafting well if we suck. 
 

Trade JT IF we can’t resign him and sign more decent FAs…/get rid of the trash and bad contracts. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by drummer4now

[Junkyard Dog]

Team has holes and no cap if we retain everybody. Big one being weak bottom 6 and aging D-core.  Everyone but Hughes/Poolman are on the wrong side of 30. Most of our forward group is 26 or much younger. Gonna have to improve in age and talent with the D-core.

 

In order to be a contender you have to be a consistent playoff team first. We've yet to prove that.

 

In order to have flexibility you need cap space and a good prospect pool. With the amount of traded picks/prospects, losses of prospects, graduates(almost all forwards) we have a weak prospect pool.

 

Overall IDK when changes will come. This next road trip will probably determine whether or not they do at this trade deadline or at the draft.

[hammertime]

I think we need someone in addition to Connor G who can draw a penalty. I think with proper coaching the Canucks should be a very good PP team. A major part of Canuck culture as far as I'm concerned is the level of pestilence that Burr, Lapierre, Ruutu, Cooke, Hansen, Kesler, Bieksa etc brought. IMO we aren't a playoff contender until we start winning the game within the game again. 

 

 

 

I'd like to target guys with a lil of that edge.... Domi, Lemieux, Zack L'heureux, Will Cuylle, Marco Rossi, Nick Cousins. To get opponents off their game or better yet in the box.  

Edited January 5, 2022 by hammertime

[Elias Pettersson]

We need a right hand shot 3C/4C who has some truculence to his game and some younger Dmen.  We pretty much have all of our top players except a partner for Hughes, so it shouldn't be that difficult to acquire the supporting cast.  

 

Our prospect pool is depleted but only because most of our guys have graduated to the big club.  We have a Vezina calibre goaltender, a Norris trophy calibre Dman and most of our top 9 forwards are 26 or under.  I think JR has most of the pieces in place thanks to Benning.  He just needs to tweak the roster.  We also have the coach in place that I think can take us far into the playoffs.  

[Crabcakes]

Interesting interview with Myers in the first intermission tonight.  He seems to be playing perhaps the best of his career.  He has taken a step forward mentally.  I think that his ice time is usually over 20 minutes this year and he could have become that top 4 RHD.  Of course the Canucks need another and Myers is 31 (32 in Feb).

 

I think that the Canucks do have enough talent.  A core at least.  They need players to support that core better but also they need to rearrange the assets a little bit.  I think they have too many high end forwards and not enough high end defense.  So a move along these lines should be made.  Of course there will be progression of the players that they already have in the system but they have to continue to add to the pipeline.  This is the key to staying competitive over the long term.  

[Junkyard Dog]

If the goal is to be competitive now then trade Petey and Boeser.

 

In terms of cost and importance compared to others in the short term like Miller, Horvat, Garland they haven't been as important.

 

They're also gonna cost us more than 14M moving forward.

 

Petey

 

for something like

 

Chytil

Schneider/Lundqvist

1st

 

Boeser for a top 4 RD.

 

I don't think winning now is the main goal. For this year yeah be can and it sounds like JR will give this team the opportunity. Nothing that Rutherford has said has implied that he is in win-now mode. All signs point toward building a long-term contender and building more youth to do it.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Junkyard Dog

[BPA]

12 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Interesting interview with Myers in the first intermission tonight.  He seems to be playing perhaps the best of his career.  He has taken a step forward mentally.  I think that his ice time is usually over 20 minutes this year and he could have become that top 4 RHD.  Of course the Canucks need another and Myers is 31 (32 in Feb).

 

I think that the Canucks do have enough talent.  A core at least.  They need players to support that core better but also they need to rearrange the assets a little bit.  I think they have too many high end forwards and not enough high end defense.  So a move along these lines should be made.  Of course there will be progression of the players that they already have in the system but they have to continue to add to the pipeline.  This is the key to staying competitive over the long term.  

Agree that under BB, Myers has been playing his best as a Canuck and genuinely looks to be top 4D.  If he is, then we just need another RHD in the top 4D.  Cuz when playoffs comes around, we need top D men to munch those minutes.

 

Unfortunately, it comes at the expense of one of the top 9 making $$$.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just putting something out here, as I read all your posts.............

 

Let's say that 33 is the magic number when you can not bank on a player playing past at the peak of his ability.  (Not saying I am right, but it is around there ish) So some player play well past there, other don't play well past 30...............

 

So Miller has 5 more years, and Horvat has 8 more years.....does that make Pettersson expendable? And what is the return? It is selling low.!!!!!!

 

And just for the record..........IMO.........we move Miller at the TDL at 50% retained for a young RHD, a prospect and a 1st or something along that lines......

 

But does Pettersson improve? 

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, J.I.A.H.N said:

Just putting something out here, as I read all your posts.............

 

Let's say that 33 is the magic number when you can not bank on a player playing past at the peak of his ability.  (Not saying I am right, but it is around there ish) So some player play well past there, other don't play well past 30...............

 

So Miller has 5 more years, and Horvat has 8 more years.....does that make Pettersson expendable? And what is the return? It is selling low.!!!!!!

 

And just for the record..........IMO.........we move Miller at the TDL at 50% retained for a young RHD, a prospect and a 1st or something along that lines......

 

But does Pettersson improve? 

If we moved Miller at 50% retention we'd get a small fortune to be sure. Not many teams have a surplus of young RD and would be willing to give up for 2 years of Miller. You'd be looking at blue chip prospect RD instead. You'd still get 2 rentals worth of price of a top line player on a insanely low cap hit.

[Ghostsof1915]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

If we moved Miller at 50% retention we'd get a small fortune to be sure. Not many teams have a surplus of young RD and would be willing to give up for 2 years of Miller. You'd be looking at blue chip prospect RD instead. You'd still get 2 rentals worth of price of a top line player on a insanely low cap hit.

Look at our cap space. We don't have the ability to retain salary. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

If the goal is to be competitive now then trade Petey and Boeser.

 

In terms of cost and importance compared to others in the short term like Miller, Horvat, Garland they haven't been as important.

 

They're also gonna cost us more than 14M moving forward.

 

Petey

 

for something like

 

Chytil

Schneider/Lundqvist

1st

 

Boeser for a top 4 RD.

 

I don't think winning now is the main goal. For this year yeah be can and it sounds like JR will give this team the opportunity. Nothing that Rutherford has said has implied that he is in win-now mode. All signs point toward building a long-term contender and building more youth to do it.

 

One thing I really noticed tonight on the PP, was Hughes reluctance to move the puck to the right point on the PP, and a few other times as well. a real #2 would be incredible for Hughes to play along side of.............

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

Look at our cap space. We don't have the ability to retain salary. 

well, maybe, maybe not, but moving Miller at 50% and then moving the Dman that the acquired Dman would replace might be close???? But I haven't got deep into the numbers.

[Junkyard Dog]

6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Look at our cap space. We don't have the ability to retain salary. 

We probably won't be taking much, if any cap back.

 

Also if we do move on from Miller chances are we are moving on from other veterans as well.

[Junkyard Dog]

9 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

One thing I really noticed tonight on the PP, was Hughes reluctance to move the puck to the right point on the PP, and a few other times as well. a real #2 would be incredible for Hughes to play along side of.............

I would like to see another great skating puck-moving defenseman on this team. On the right side too. Someone we can play with Hughes when we need a goal. I see a lot of the good teams having 2-3 good skating puck-moving defenseman. 

 

That and a top 4 RD that plays physical and defensive hockey that can play with OEL in a shutdown role when we're defending a lead in key situations. Play with Hughes normally.

 

Myers has been great but will be 32 soon, 10 years older than Hughes. He isn't a long-term option but can certainly help with any short-term success. Perhaps he could be a potential trade chip as well.

[Father Ryan]

I'm not for trading any of the core...or Miller. I get it that we could reap a windfall with trading Miller, but I think that would put us back another couple of years. We are too thin at center. We cannot afford to trade him. Even if we got a high 1st, and that 1st was a bonafide top line center, he wouldn't be ready for a couple of years. This upcoming draft is deep, yes, but are any of them going to start immediately for a team that is playoff capable right now...which I think we are. I don't think so. 

 

IF...and a big if...anyone gets moved, I'd move Boeser. We are proving that we can win without him. He's a great piece, sure, but I think he would fetch a high 2nd plus a roster player, at least. That would also ease the cap crunch we are in a little, and will be in for another few years. 

 

If I'm trading anyone on the team currently, or in system, I'd be looking at Rathbone, DiPietro, Utunen from in system, then Chiasson, Highmore, and Dowling from the team. Next year, start playing Woo in some games. If capable of stepping in, trade Hamonic. I'm not saying we would get a bunch of great picks here. It would clear out a few million in exchange for some ELC. That might be enough, combined with savings from Boeser, AND losing Luongo's cap hit, to resign Miller to something appropriate along with Horvat. MIGHT

[JM_]

@J.I.A.H.NI think we have a chance to make some nice upgrades if we:

 

1. Move Pearson and Hamonic, and pool man if we can get a RHD in free agency 

2. Bring in a UFA - #1 target should be Klingberg imo. Trade for his rights if Dallas goes in the toilet. 

3. Draft a C with size this draft with our 1st

 

With these moves we can keep the best parts of the team for at least one more year, maybe more if guys can be convinced to do slightly team friendly deals,

 

I'm fine with using minor assets (no 1sts)  to move Pearson and Hamonic if need be to make the cap room. Maybe Rathibone can be used to bulk up the 3rd pairing as well. 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

I'd hate to move on from Brock, Miller or Petey,  but those seem like the guys that could go in any attempt to re-balance our lineup.  Those would be difficult deals to do at the deadline, though, and not just because of their salaries.  A bigger sticking point is what we'd be asking for in return, which would have to include good NHL players, not just picks and prospects, and therefore affect the composition of the team acquiring them.  Most contenders aren't looking to re-tool on the fly themselves, just add rental type players.  So if anything happens, I'm thinking it will be around the draft at the earliest, but more likely free agency, when hockey deals are most doable.  This timeline would also allow the new management to properly assess our players, which is the most important thing.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

One question I have is how many pucking-moving/puck-carrying D do we really need?  With Hughes, OEL, Meyers and Rathbone available, it doesn't seem like a weak spot.  Upgrading the more defensive guys that can play with them would make sense but I think Hamonic, Poolman, Schenn and Burroughs have actually been pretty good at that.  With that said, Schenn does get walked a bit more than you'd like when playing with Hughes.  He's smart and covers up his lack of footspeed well with good posiitoning, but it's not ideal.  What would be nice is a big, somewhat mobile punishing crease-clearer and cycle-breaker, maybe like Hamonic in his prime.  If we have to move a good forward, I'd look at maybe including Poolman and going after a package like Mayfield and Pageau from NYI.

[Ghostsof1915]

I would argue we need fast, hard hitting, big defensive defensemen more than a puck moving one right now. Someone who can clear the net. And give Demko a chance to see as many shots and get ready for them. 

 

I said this at the beginning of the season. Even though we have an interm GM. He and anyone appointed to the GM spot. Is going to need probably a few games in Vancouver and Abbotsford to see what we have got, and what we need. Who needs to stay, who needs to go. 

 

The team needs that vision thing. 

- Short term (This season issues)

- Medium term (1-2 seasons)

- Long term (3+ seasons)

 

We need depth in our prospects. So that if a player or two gets to be too much of cost. We can move a player and plug in replacements that are cheaper, and better long term.

Great drafting means we can keep the salary cap under control. I know it's fun for trade proposals. But you're not going to find skilled, fast, and big players via trade. 

You have to draft and develop them. And give the time to be ready when the call comes in.