With all due respect, I think the consensus on this board that Miller is getting traded before the TDL and the Canucks aren't making the playoffs is highly premature

[Baggins]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

There’s an even higher chance Miller will not re-sign with us, when he becomes a UFA.  Get the assets for him now.  

You do know they can talk extension before he becomes a UFA don't you? Even now they can ask if he wants to stay, and at what kind of money and term, or if he'd prefer to be moved. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, DefCon1 said:

Can you imagine for a second NYR gets desparate and loses their marble trading us Lafferenier, Schnirder, Ottoman and a 1st? That would make the Canucks a possible cup contender in as little as 2 years time if Laf figures out that he is a 1st overall pick and ottoman makes the team. 

Nope.  I figure NYR would get killed if they gave up on a first overall that quickly and he's not coming here.   lts really tough to guess what we'd get back.   NYR fans want Miller but they are probably thinking there first this year plus a cap throw in lol.   Managers might find a middle ground.    Zibanejad was traded for essentially a cap dump and a second .... so they might expect the same.  

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, DefCon1 said:

Can you imagine for a second NYR gets desparate and loses their marble trading us Lafferenier, Schnirder, Ottoman and a 1st? That would make the Canucks a possible cup contender in as little as 2 years time if Laf figures out that he is a 1st overall pick and ottoman makes the team. 

The sad part about this is there probably would STILL be people complaining about JR and Allvin, etc if a trade like this took place. Sometimes I just don't understand people on CDC.

[The Lock]

Anyway, while I can see the logic on trading Miller, I can also see logic on keeping him. I agree that this whole idea is premature and more due to a thrist in some people for change than anything else.

 

If it happens at the TDL, then hopefully we get something good back, but to expect it to happen at the TDL rather than realise it's one of many options we have? It seems like a plea for insanity to me.

 

(Editted as I had "please" instead of "plea" lol)

Edited January 29, 2022 by The Lock

[Canuckfanforlife82]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

The sad part about this is there probably would STILL be people complaining about JR and Allvin, etc if a trade like this took place. Sometimes I just don't understand people on CDC.

You can only complain if they make trades like Benning did. He rarely got enough value in trades. It felt and looked like other gms took advantage of him almost all the time. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Canuckfanforlife82

[The Lock]

Just now, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

You can only complain if they make a trade like Benning did. He rarely got enough value in trades. It felt and looked like other gms took advantage of him almost all the time. 

Yeah, but remember... this is CDC. Even Benning's good trades there were people complaining. Same with Gillis. Same with Nonis....

[Canuckfanforlife82]

2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Yeah, but remember... this is CDC. Even Benning's good trades there were people complaining. Same with Gillis. Same with Nonis....

Well nobody should complain about the Miller and Motte trades. I think he shouldn’t have traded for OEL. The other guys would have been off the books at the end of the year. It was decisions like that put us in a real bind in terms of the salary cap. (Pearson, OEL, Myers, Poolman, Dickinson etc.) just bad contracts that are hard to get rid of.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Canuckfanforlife82

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Well nobody should complain about the Miller and Motte trades. I think he shouldn’t have traded for OEL. The other guys would have been off the books at the end of the year. It was decisions like that put us in a real bind in terms of the salary cap. (Pearson, OEL, Myers, Poolman, Dickinson etc.) just bad contracts that are hard to get rid of.

Remember, this isn't about if they "should". Should doesn't often traslate well to if they do or don't.

[IBatch]

10 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Anyway, while I can see the logic on trading Miller, I can also see logic on keeping him. I agree that this whole idea is premature and more due to a thrist in some people for change than anything else.

 

If it happens at the TDL, then hopefully we get something good back, but to expect it to happen at the TDL rather than realise it's one of many options we have? It seems like a please for insanity to me.

What is a "please for insanity to me" mean?  A plea for insanity?   Get that not making a decision is a decision ... and that making one is too.   And that maybe all this "Miller stuff" is a little nerve wracking - is that what you mean? 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Well nobody should complain about the Miller and Motte trades. I think he shouldn’t have traded for OEL. The other guys would have been off the books at the end of the year. It was decisions like that put us in a real bind in terms of the salary cap. (Pearson, OEL, Myers, Poolman, Dickinson etc.) just bad contracts that are hard to get rid of.

Was touting trade Pearson all year - but didn't expect him to get a contract like he got - it's fine.   Myers blah i've supported him and his contract from the start - everyone stopped bugging Edler even though he was making the same amount lol.    And rightly so.   Poolman is fine.   Dickinson so far is not. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch

[The Lock]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

What is a "please for insanity to me" mean?  A plea for insanity?   Get that not making a decision is a decision ... and that making one is too.   And that maybe all this "Miller stuff" is a little nerve wracking - is that what you mean? 

Yeah I mistyped. I mean "plea". lol

[komodo0921]

8 hours ago, tas said:

do you have a link for this? I'm surprised I missed something like that. 

I must apologize and rescind that comment. JiB did say that during last years tdl press availability but, it wasn't about JTM specifically. He never named the player. Memory's not what it used to be. 

[komodo0921]

8 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

What is the drop off in trade assets if we trade Miller next TDL as opposed to this TDL? 

If a guy like Miller is available as a deadline rental, i would immediately say he's worth a grade A prospect and a first rounder. 

What more could we get if we traded him this year as opposed to next year? 

 

What that allows us to do is see where we are at the deadline  this year and decide whether to take a run at the playoffs. If we go multiple rounds and perhaps even reach the finals, wouldn't we want to try running it back next year with Miller? Or maybe he performs so well that we trade him in the offseason and still get a giant return. 

If for whatever reason team doesn't take the next step and looks like it either stayed stagnant or went backwards next season , then we decided at next year's deadline whether to move him or risk a Tanev/Marky like situation and have them walk summer 2023?

The difference is two playoff runs at a great caphit versus one if we wait.

If he's worth 2 pieces next tdl, he's easily worth four this one. That's a massive drop.

Like I said though, I'd rather he re-signs here then moving him at all.

I really couldn't see him passing up an 8x8 offer

He'd be 38 by the time it expires. 

 

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, komodo0921 said:

The difference is two playoff runs at a great caphit versus one if we wait.

If he's worth 2 pieces next tdl, he's easily worth four this one. That's a massive drop.

Like I said though, I'd rather he re-signs here then moving him at all.

I really couldn't see him passing up an 8x8 offer

He'd be 38 by the time it expires. 

 

If we sign Miller 8 x 8 there is a fair chance he gets bought out later, just like Suter and Parise.   Sure the caps going to make the 1 mil a year over the next four years.   Then maybe back to business as usual.     He'd have to have a HHOF performance almost to earn that deal.   I do agree that he's worth more this TDL, especially if the team decides to retain and re-set around a Miller trade.   

 

Tatar getting a first, second and third shows what sort of stuff a contender will give up ... Miller's value at half his cap hit today is worth twice that IMO.   Not that i see anyone going that crazy.    Sure hope we can make the playoffs, and go from there.   Will give management some time to work with Brock, and adjust for the draft depending on how things go.  

[komodo0921]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If we sign Miller 8 x 8 there is a fair chance he gets bought out later, just like Suter and Parise.   Sure the caps going to make the 1 mil a year over the next four years.   Then maybe back to business as usual.     He'd have to have a HHOF performance almost to earn that deal.   I do agree that he's worth more this TDL, especially if the team decides to retain and re-set around a Miller trade.   

 

Tatar getting a first, second and third shows what sort of stuff a contender will give up ... Miller's value at half his cap hit today is worth twice that IMO.   Not that i see anyone going that crazy.    Sure hope we can make the playoffs, and go from there.   Will give management some time to work with Brock, and adjust for the draft depending on how things go.  

I'm really hoping JR is trying to re-sign him.

[Mbnuckfan]

2 hours ago, Baggins said:

You do know they can talk extension before he becomes a UFA don't you? Even now they can ask if he wants to stay, and at what kind of money and term, or if he'd prefer to be moved. 

I am fairly certain that they cannot talk term or dollars until he's in his final year, which would be in the summer.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, The Lock said:

Anyway, while I can see the logic on trading Miller, I can also see logic on keeping him. I agree that this whole idea is premature and more due to a thrist in some people for change than anything else.

 

If it happens at the TDL, then hopefully we get something good back, but to expect it to happen at the TDL rather than realise it's one of many options we have? It seems like a plea for insanity to me.

 

(Editted as I had "please" instead of "plea" lol)

I think this all hinges on management's stated plan to be a consistent playoff team in two+ years, get younger, get faster, fill holes and create cap 'cushion'.

 

A Miller trade checks a LOT of those boxes.

 

And I'd wager Rutherford already has a very good idea of whether Miller is interested in staying at all, at what cap hit, and what term. If for any reason the answers to those questions, don't have him in the long term plans past this contract (likeliest outcome IMO), IMO you HAVE to maximize his trade value. And that likely means this TDL, with his new team getting two playoff runs.

 

We'll find out soon enough though.

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think this all hinges on management's stated plan to be a consistent playoff team in two+ years, get younger, get faster, fill holes and create cap 'cushion'.

 

A Miller trade checks a LOT of those boxes.

 

And I'd wager Rutherford already has a very good idea of whether Miller is interested in staying at all, at what cap hit, and what term. If for any reason the answers to those questions, don't have him in the long term plans past this contract (likeliest outcome IMO), IMO you HAVE to maximize his trade value. And that likely means this TDL, with his new team getting two playoff runs.

 

We'll find out soon enough though.

That is the logical path.   Hope and sure he has been, fielding calls.   His first press conference he said GMs already were leaving messages about some guys as soon as they found out - and if we fans can see it ... well you can bet GMs do as well.   It's a very good position to be in.   Kind of like the catbird seat in a way (and JB should get some props for this but not in the way he was going lol)..   Nobody should be surprised to see one, two or even three players traded at or before the deadline. What would shock me, and well this is hockey, is us become buyers again like we did with Tyler Toffoli.  

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch

[Grape]

21 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

Enlighten me as to how you replace Millers qualities? Hes the second coming of Yzerman 

and OF COURSE people want to see him traded. If we had Nathan Mackinnon himself 

there would be fans that would want him traded. 

 

THERES CERTIAN PLAYERS YOU NEVER EVER TRADE PEOPLE!!

Them requesting a trade notwithstanding, you dont build a f ycking hockey team and 

trade players like f ycking Miller.  Would you trade Crosby? Or Stamkos in his prime?

Yes you COULD but those teams that kept those players WON A CUP IMAGINE THAT!!!

 

And yes Miller IS in the same league as those guys with all he brings to a team he IS in 

the same calibre as those guys. IF we can make an argument that Pettersson is in the same 

caliber as Connor David and Matthews then we DEFINATELTY can make the case that 

Miller is that elite as well. 

 

Do you know what good teams do with elite players? They sign them not trade them away 

for 2-3 lesser players. 

Miller is not in the same category as McKinnon, Crosby, and prime Stamkos at all. Pettersson isn't close to the same league as McDavid and Matthews. What kind of homer glasses are you wearing? I mean I thought at first you were just arguing that these were similar situations but to actually confidently say that those players are in the same category? Really? No one can successfully make that argument right now.

 

We all know how good Miller is and how important he is to the team, and no one wants to face the potential of losing Miller for nothing especially since we aren't real contenders currently. That's why there has been discussion of trading him; it's as obvious of a potential trade scenario as there can be in the NHL. If you can't see that that's a "you" problem and not a "the fanbase is crazy" problem.

 

No one is advocating for trading him for bits and pieces. We would need significant assets that could set us up well for our window of opportunity in the future.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Grape

[Googlie]

Maybe this.....?

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-canucks-trade-could-produce-second-half-blockbuster/