With all due respect, I think the consensus on this board that Miller is getting traded before the TDL and the Canucks aren't making the playoffs is highly premature

[hammertime]

5 minutes ago, Shirotashi said:

Pete maybe wont score like Mc David true but you only judge by one single attribute, the ability to put up 

points are not the only thing you build a team with. The other qualities that Miller and Petersson posses I 

find lacking in Mc David. Miller is more like Yzerman then Mc David and Petersson IMO is more like 

Datsyuk, in my ..... and I cannot stress this enough so calm your tits.... opinion.

Yep that sure is an opinion. 

[Shirotashi]

20 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Yep that sure is an opinion. 

You wont take it deeper than that because you cannot. Your paper tiger argument is that thin.

[Me_]

3 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

These guys won't be kids anymore when the assets from a Miller trade (hopefully) come to fruition. How old will these "kids" be in four of years? I suggest four years because that is what I see as the likely turn around time of the assets the Canucks might get in a Miller trade. In that time, Boeser and Horvat will be 28 and 30, respectively. Pettersson will be 27 going on 28....

 

The only (significant) advantage which may be gained from trading Miller, in the short term, is extra cap space. 

 

                                                        regards,  G.

Short term gains, long term pains.

 

It means the Canucks do t make the playoffs this year, costing kids valuable experience, then the next year after that and the year after that, because Miller was traded for kids who need to further develop and picks whose names aren’t drafted yet.

 

Horrible idea.

[hammertime]

Just now, Shirotashi said:

You wont take it deeper than that because you cannot. Your paper tiger argument is that thin.

I wont argue with you because you're doing a fine job of discrediting yourself all by yourself. 

[Shirotashi]

4 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I wont argue with you because you're doing a fine job of discrediting yourself all by yourself. 

The only way you would agree with me is if the point totals for Miller and Petey where year to 

year close or more that Mc David. I guess there are just two trains of thought when it comes 

to evaluating players.

[spook007]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

This is a good example of the "high price"  fans of other teams feel is fair.   Kerfoot is decent enough - the other guys... well doesn't exactly scream "yippee!" does it.    But TO is definitely a reasonable target/trading partner as the article outlined.   They even got greedy enough to throw in a deal for Schenn too lol - taking away two of our best cap hit players.   

Scrups... Yes Kerfoot is decent, Prospect that has been hampered by injuries... screams Juolevi to me, and 15th pick last season.

Does it really address any of our needs or are we just TO left overs back? No 1st round pick?

And then its a typical TO proposal, we could for strength take Scheen back as well... Bah humbug... This does not improve us in any way, no now and not in the future...

[iinatcc]

Canucks aren't making the playoffs. Not only the team has to play like an elite team moving forward and go on a crazy run. They also need help elsewhere specifically in games involving the Pacific Division. Vegas, LA, and Anaheim have been hot and the Oilers have been picking it up again. Flames are also in the mix is the team that can actually maximize their points. 

 

So basically 2 or 3 of these teams have to stat to actually be bad or mediocre for the Canucks to get in 

 

Besides if the narrative recently is the Canucks are playing well but basically only 3-4-3 in the last 10, then that's a problem

Edited January 30, 2022 by iinatcc

[D.B Cooper]

We are 7 points out of a playoff spot, with teams ahead of us having games in hand.  
We are going to have a super crammed schedule making up for all those postponed games.  
We have to win like crazy, while hoping everyone else loses.  
 

Optimism is fun and all, but why go out of your way to ignore reality?   

What is wrong with having fun just watching no expectation hockey?    

 

We probably will trade JT

We aren’t making the playoffs.  

 

The pre Bruce era this season blew it. 
We were so bad the season was over before it barely started.   
 

Let’s just accept that and have fun watching the boys try to improve. 
 

[J-P]

12 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

We are 7 points out of a playoff spot, with teams ahead of us having games in hand.  
We are going to have a super crammed schedule making up for all those postponed games.  
We have to win like crazy, while hoping everyone else loses.  
 

Optimism is fun and all, but why go out of your way to ignore reality?   

What is wrong with having fun just watching no expectation hockey?    

 

We probably will trade JT

We aren’t making the playoffs.  

 

The pre Bruce era this season blew it. 
We were so bad the season was over before it barely started.   
 

Let’s just accept that and have fun watching the boys try to improve. 
 

I agree with most with what you wrote bug guess for myself and many others the playoff hope is part of the fun.

 

While we are a longshot to make it, we do have an easy schedule remaining and the last 10 games have been against elite teams and with a depleted roster. So I think there's still room for hope and also the hockey usually turns pretty bad quickly once a team is really out of it.

 

I think we need to be sellers this year regardless, and thankfully front office seems to agree.

 

But yeah - let's enjoy the games regardless...

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, spook007 said:

Scrups... Yes Kerfoot is decent, Prospect that has been hampered by injuries... screams Juolevi to me, and 15th pick last season.

Does it really address any of our needs or are we just TO left overs back? No 1st round pick?

And then its a typical TO proposal, we could for strength take Scheen back as well... Bah humbug... This does not improve us in any way, no now and not in the future...

Kerfoot is a player that's it - well and one of those is a first rounder recently...but all forwards.    If those higher end prospects were defenseman instead it might work.  

 

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

Canucks aren't making the playoffs. Not only the team has to play like an elite team moving forward and go on a crazy run. They also need help elsewhere specifically in games involving the Pacific Division. Vegas, LA, and Anaheim have been hot and the Oilers have been picking it up again. Flames are also in the mix is the team that can actually maximize their points. 

 

So basically 2 or 3 of these teams have to stat to actually be bad or mediocre for the Canucks to get in 

 

Besides if the narrative recently is the Canucks are playing well but basically only 3-4-3 in the last 10, then that's a problem

This is true.   If the teams ahead of us didn't go through some losing streaks we'd be done now.    We have to play on par with them and win 5-6 more games on the way.   Still 38 games left ... but we'd need a winning streak before the deadline .... 

[Provost]

Well with all due respect…

It is highly unlikely that we are making the playoffs.  We are on track for about 82 points by the end of the season.  We need to go about 26-12 for the rest of the year to hit the historic playoff bar.  We are under .500 in our last ten games so are actually losing ground and not making it up.
We are also 7th in our division so have to leapfrog everybody.  That’ll math on that is harder than you think because all the teams ahead of us play each other a bunch so it is hard for ALL of them to fall apart when there  are so many guaranteed points between them.

 

People are jumping to the conclusion that Miller is going to get traded because the team President keeps saying things like “I want to get younger to match with our core” and “I want to clear cap space” and “I am going to make some decisions before the deadline” and other comments like that.

 

It is possible that he doesn’t trade Miller this deadline… but that certainly represents the biggest chip he has in doing the things he said.  It isn’t impossible that he decides that he was wrong and wants to re-sign a 30 year old Miller to a massive $8.5-9 million dollar extension and decides to trade away a bunch of young players instead… it just seems WAY less likely.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Provost

[combover]

57 minutes ago, Provost said:

.  It isn’t impossible that he decides that he was wrong and wants to re-sign a 30 year old Miller to a massive $8.5-9 million dollar extension and decides to trade away a bunch of young players instead… it just seems WAY less likely.

 

 

i agree - 

and the bold is the model that got us to this point. 
A Mediocre fringe wild card team that relies to heavily on goaltending and has no nhl ready prospects or depth at any position except maybe  goal. 

I don’t think miller will go unless there’s a really good offer JR/PA is in the position of strength we have him for another season which also increases his value.

 

 

 

[mikeyman109]

Trade Miller if the return makes sense. No trade should happen without a RHD coming back.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by mikeyman109

[alt kilgore]

What's the rush?   In trading Miller.

 

I mean that in the sense  that sure, his value is technically higher this TDL than next, but by how much?  IF....JT can sustain his play through next season, I can see some desperate team paying almost the same price as one this season.  Depends on the GM.  Some GMs, pushed by their owners perhaps, are way more trigger happy and over-estimate their team as able to contend, and will overpay to get those final pieces...coughBenningcough.  And will still give up a lot to have even one run with Miller @ his economical rate. 

 

I'm not saying never.  Of course if the deal was too good to resist you must take it.  If the return was enough to placate the dressing room with solid talent, especially on the R side back end or center, and a few years younger, go for it.

 

Its the whole "culture" issue that may be an issue. This team has been managed in such an ad hoc and delusional way for eight years. With no direction or communication leaving players also confused and rattled at times.  Trading away Miller right now would be another kick in the nuts to the team chemistry. That includes next season too.

 

I would prefer that JR try his hardest to find a way to NOT trade Miller at all.  At least try and improve the team without trading him, and ripping the heart and soul from the team.  Who knows?...Maybe JR will find a way to navigate Benning's cap mines he left him, and can find deals involving other players instead. And we are way better next season, with an improved Petey.  Resulting in Miller wanting to re-sign at a fairly reasonable cap hit.  Its not impossible. I think there's no rush. Other than JR wanting to put his stamp on the team with a huge move right away.

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, combover said:

i agree - 

and the bold is the model that got us to this point. 
A Mediocre fringe wild card team that relies to heavily on goaltending and has no nhl ready prospects or depth at any position except maybe  goal. 

I don’t think miller will go unless there’s a really good offer JR/PA is in the position of strength we have him for another season which also increases his value.

 

 

 

Yep, we don’t HAVE to trade him at the deadline.

 

There will be half a dozen playoff teams that would really want him for this year’s playoff run that might give great offers when played off each other.

 

If no offers are up to par, there would be double the number of suitors before the draft who will have more cap space.  They don’t get two playoff runs out of him… but maybe that is made up by having more teams in on the mix.

 

I think odds are is that he moves at the deadline though.  A lot of smoke behind the rumours.

[Nucker 67]

Well, Miller does have an extra year left, so there really isn't a rush to trade him, but his value is as high as it'll ever be IMO.

 

I want an extra 1st at the 2022 Draft, so however they need to get that, do it

 

 

[Conscience]

This team as is isnt good enough to complete for a cup, so to have any hope we need to reload and trading miller would be a great head start.

 

atm the moment we could be a bubble team with a full season of coach bb, is that all you want?

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

20 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Well, Miller does have an extra year left, so there really isn't a rush to trade him, but his value is as high as it'll ever be IMO.

 

I want an extra 1st at the 2022 Draft, so however they need to get that, do it

 

 

An extra first would be nice.

I’m sort of leaning toward trying to snag an unprotected 2023 first, however. Teams tend to be a lot less attached to their picks the further out they are into the future. And 2023 looks like a very strong year.

 

Given that we’re almost certainly trading with a contender if we move Miller, it might make sense to look at teams that could be near the end of their window, or facing salary issues, who might end up dropping significantly in the standings next season.
 

Also would be fun to have an unprotected 2023 first in the bank, and watch the team we trade with struggle all season on their way to handing us a top-10 pick in 2023’s class. 

 

Hopefully as part of a package that also includes a couple day two picks in the 2022 draft, a young roster player, and a prospect.

 

Of course, a 2022 first would be a year ahead in development and maybe gets into our roster faster, but I suspect the 2023 pick would be the better player long-term, and if it ends up top-10, might still be the quicker roster addition, despite being a year younger.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

What's the rush?   In trading Miller.

 

I mean that in the sense  that sure, his value is technically higher this TDL than next, but by how much?  IF....JT can sustain his play through next season, I can see some desperate team paying almost the same price as one this season.  Depends on the GM.  Some GMs, pushed by their owners perhaps, are way more trigger happy and over-estimate their team as able to contend, and will overpay to get those final pieces...coughBenningcough.  And will still give up a lot to have even one run with Miller @ his economical rate. 

 

I'm not saying never.  Of course if the deal was too good to resist you must take it.  If the return was enough to placate the dressing room with solid talent, especially on the R side back end or center, and a few years younger, go for it.

 

Its the whole "culture" issue that may be an issue. This team has been managed in such an ad hoc and delusional way for eight years. With no direction or communication leaving players also confused and rattled at times.  Trading away Miller right now would be another kick in the nuts to the team chemistry. That includes next season too.

 

I would prefer that JR try his hardest to find a way to NOT trade Miller at all.  At least try and improve the team without trading him, and ripping the heart and soul from the team.  Who knows?...Maybe JR will find a way to navigate Benning's cap mines he left him, and can find deals involving other players instead. And we are way better next season, with an improved Petey.  Resulting in Miller wanting to re-sign at a fairly reasonable cap hit.  Its not impossible. I think there's no rush. Other than JR wanting to put his stamp on the team with a huge move right away.

Bigger return trading him now, as opposed to a rental next year.

Also, next year clubs will know, we need to make deals to keep everyone, so any trades will likely be hampered...

 

Not saying trade miller, but if the conclusion is, we need change tp properly compete, this trade d/l makes sense...

[alt kilgore]

27 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Bigger return trading him now, as opposed to a rental next year.

Also, next year clubs will know, we need to make deals to keep everyone, so any trades will likely be hampered...

 

Not saying trade miller, but if the conclusion is, we need change tp properly compete, this trade d/l makes sense...

I don't think you mean "properly compete" this season right?  Because even if we get serviceable player (s) back, it won't be a superstar, and it won't be someone who plays like Miller at the same or a lesser contract.

 

So you mean next season. 

I contend that next season we have more of a good shot at improving our chances WITH Miller in the lineup to make the playoffs and compete, than with what we'd get with younger pieces, and draft picks.  Its all about if its a re-tool, or a re-build.  And I don't think this management wants to signal again to this current young core that they will be starting a rebuild now.  If that's the course, that's a different argument.

 

On paper, yes, a bigger return because he's got two potential playoff runs under his cheap contract.  But in reality, we may not get quite the same haul, but chances are there will still be a few desperate teams next season, who will pay through the nose for Miller regardless of his contract running out.  Because any team that takes him then will most likely only sign him if they have reassurances that he wants to sign long term. And they'll already have a number in mind. And if its on a contending team, that's what he'd probably want too, if he's decided on leaving Vancouver, or if we really can't afford him.

 

Of course not only does it depend on if he actually wants to stay here, and if we can even afford what he will ask, but also that it depends on who is coming back the other way.  And in all fairness, JR may be still deciding on a re-tool or re-build depending on if a deal presented to him is so undeniably lucrative, if that's the right word, that he can't say no regardless.  Younger haul.....rebuild.  Star veteran D and a youngish center who can step in immediately?....retool.

 

I just think also we have to heed Bieksa's warning about ripping the heart and soul from the team. The engine of the team.  You have to ask, and JR does too, if who they will replace him with, will we be better off next season or not.  And if not, why do it, if its supposed to be a retool?  In that case its dumb to trade him now IMO.  He may even want to re-sign here next season if we do improve a lot. Who knows?

 

Unless the return is like two #1 picks and a top prospect, and JR has to take the deal, and so it turns into a full on rebuild, and we all must steel ourselves for another 4 or 5 years.  But I don't think JR wants to wait that long ideally. And if that's the case, if its just a retool, we need Miller next season more than players who will maybe, maybe, help us in 3 or 4 years.  And/or new acquisitions forced onto the roster that, once again, players will have to adjust and get comfortable with each other and the systems etc.. Like seemingly every new season under Benning.  Even if its a top pairing D.  Look at Schmidt, and Gudbranson.  Just because we trade Miller for a good ready-to-play defenseman + picks, or a prospect, doesn't guarantee they will perform or be happy here.  Be careful what you wish for.....or assume.  There's another train of thought that when you have a player like Miller, you do everything you can to hang onto him. Kopitar is 34, and is still producing for LA. More than that, he's a leader and huge part of their team presence and culture.

 

I'm hoping JR surprises everyone, including sports media who have all but traded him already, and he performs some magic and is able to get us more help on the blue line, or center, by using the other pieces he has here.  And at the very least punt the trade decision until next season. I gave Benning the benefit of the doubt for about 5 seasons or so before my posts in here started turning south on him.  I'll hang my hopes on JR for now to get us out of this.  Talk to me in 4 years. And I may be organizing a new banner for the new Jim.....or Allvin .