Patrik Allvin on Canucks Hour

[MrCanuck94]

18 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Developed internally. I know that. The conversation was about getting bottom players to play a role.

They were overpriced because we were losers. Every bottom pays more to get players to come to their organization unless they are struggling to stay in the league. 

Look at our FO and PK without them and you still say they were overpriced. You have no sense.

No, we were bad because we couldn't use that money in the top 6 and top 4.

 

Good teams find value players in the bottom half of their line up.

Edited February 17, 2022 by MrCanuck94

[FaninMex]

17 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

No.

 

We were bad because we couldn't use that money in the top 6 and top 4.

 

Good teams find value players in the bottom half of their line up.

Who should we have had in the top 6? We were letting Petey come up. Bo and Boes. 

 

Loui E was the black hole not Sutter and Beagle. Loui E took a payday and forgot how to play. Also, go rewatch the highlights from the bubble or watch the games. Bother Sutter and Beagle were warriors. Sutter was even scoring timely goals. Beagle was in everyone's face.

 

We got worse when we lost them, not better. Being at the top of the cap hurt but it was not the downfall. Again, this team under Green is below .500, with BB they are .687 or around that. Imagine if we had a coach. We would have beaten Vegas if BLM protest didn't cancel games and allow Vegas to refocus.

Edited February 17, 2022 by FaninMex

[filthycanuck]

7 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

But edmonton dont have a letang or fleury. 

 

They also didn't have guys like Bryan Dumoulin, Ian Cole, Carl Hagelin, Kessel, Bonino etc. too. People are idiots if they think if you have high end talent, all of a sudden, you're a shoe in for a cup (ie: oilers, leafs). It takes more than the upper echelon talent to win the cup, the surrounding cast have to be decent and play well in the roles they are given. I can tell you for fact, Penguins don't win those 2 cups without the Hagelin, Kessel Bonino line.

[MrCanuck94]

1 hour ago, FaninMex said:

Who should we have had in the top 6? We were letting Petey come up. Bo and Boes. 

 

Loui E was the black hole not Sutter and Beagle. Loui E took a payday and forgot how to play. Also, go rewatch the highlights from the bubble or watch the games. Bother Sutter and Beagle were warriors. Sutter was even scoring timely goals. Beagle was in everyone's face.

 

We got worse when we lost them, not better. Being at the top of the cap hurt but it was not the downfall. Again, this team under Green is below .500, with BB they are .687 or around that. Imagine if we had a coach. We would have beaten Vegas if BLM protest didn't cancel games and allow Vegas to refocus.

In 17 playoff games, Roussel had 2 goals, Sutter had 1 goal and Beagle had 1 goal. That's 4 goals between about a 10 million cap hit. I never said they never had any impact, but well constructed teams don't drastically over pay for intangibles.

 

We didn't get worse after losing those players, we got worse the very next season because we were a poorly constructed team that could not afford any upgrades or to even keep players like Toffoli due to the lack of cap space.

 

We weren't in the competing cycle while being cash strapped and not being able to weaponize cap space.

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, HKSR said:

I'm saying Crosby and Malkin are the primary reasons for Pittsburgh's success.  I'm not sure how that is so hard to see.

Yes, but its a team game.  And Pittsburgh has both found and developed players; in spite of trading most 1sts.

 

Jake Guentzel, drafted 3rd round 1st played in the NHL at 23

Brian Rust, drafted 3rd round, played his first full year in NHL at 23

John Marino, drafted 6th round by Edmonton, acquired by trade wi a conditional 6th round pick; scored 26 points on D as a 22 year old rookie

Marcus Pettersson, drafted 2knd round by Anaheim, acquired by trade for 1st rounder D Sprong not working out wi Crosby; NHL at 22

Evan Rodriguez, signed as a 26 year old journeyman (including a stint with Pitt); has 33 points in 50 games

 

Some of these forwards don't have the speed and puck skills to score.  Just because they play with Sid. It does help? 

Some of these D definitely don't know how to guard Barkov & Ovechkin. Just because they play with Sid.

 

In a past life guys like Connor Sheary & Justin Schultz were coal made to diamonds.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Burke is correct for the most part.  However, if you ask an Edmonton fan how they feel about that statement they would say, "yeah we won the lottery as well and got McDavid, so what?"

 

Crosby doesn't win a Cup unless he has his sidekick with him, Malkin.  Same with Mario, same with Gretzky, etc.  Also, those Cup winning teams all had elite goaltending.  I don't think Pittsburgh wins those last two Cups without Kessel, he was pretty important during those 2 Cup runs.

Yep.  First cup was loaded with vets, loaded - Kunitz, Guerin, Fedotenko, Cooke, Satan, and others ... But we all know who won those Conn Smythe's too...Malkin/Crosby's 

Edited February 17, 2022 by IBatch

[HKSR]

3 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

They also didn't have guys like Bryan Dumoulin, Ian Cole, Carl Hagelin, Kessel, Bonino etc. too. People are idiots if they think if you have high end talent, all of a sudden, you're a shoe in for a cup (ie: oilers, leafs). It takes more than the upper echelon talent to win the cup, the surrounding cast have to be decent and play well in the roles they are given. I can tell you for fact, Penguins don't win those 2 cups without the Hagelin, Kessel Bonino line.

If you added Adam Fox and Thatcher Demko to the Oilers, waddya think would happen? 

 

You guys are seriously blind if you don't think a core of Crosby and Malkin (1, and arguably 2 generational talents), Letang (one of the best defenceman of his generation), and Vezina winner Fleury do not make a GMs job infinitely easier, and players around them significantly better, then I don't have anything more to say to you.  

 

I'll give you all some slack since Allvin is the savior of the month, but man, if you think he can easily replicate his success from Pittsburgh, you're in for a rude awakening.

[Goal:thecup]

28 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If you added Adam Fox and Thatcher Demko to the Oilers, waddya think would happen? 

 

You guys are seriously blind if you don't think a core of Crosby and Malkin (1, and arguably 2 generational talents), Letang (one of the best defenceman of his generation), and Vezina winner Fleury do not make a GMs job infinitely easier, and players around them significantly better, then I don't have anything more to say to you.  

 

I'll give you all some slack since Allvin is the savior of the month, but man, if you think he can easily replicate his success from Pittsburgh, you're in for a rude awakening.

Nobody thinks it will be easy; we're not 'blind'.

As new mngt said, the team has some good pieces, and some work to do.

We're all just looking forward to what these proven professionals can do for the club.

So save your 'savior of the month' slag for the trolls out there.

 

Keep your cut slack, Jack.

Get on the bus, Gus.

No need to dis us, Missus.

Jess get yourself free.

There must be 50 ways to love your lever.

 

And, every day at my age is a rather rude awakening anyway.

(Details withheld by court orders.)

 

Everybody seems so testy yesterday and today.

Maybe a Shawx Stomp'n 'll cheer y'all up.

It was a long drag waiting for tonight's game; I just about got some work done around here.

 

Hopefully, we'll all be happy campers soon, and heading for the playoffs.

Just a bit more than 5 weeks for PA & Co to finish prepping for the TDL March 24.

 

 

[Ohthehumanity]

17 hours ago, HKSR said:

I hear your chances of success increases once you have a Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Kris Letang trio in your core.  The other guys just kinda fall into place after that.

You're spot on, but let's give this guy a chance before we grab our torches and pitchforks.

[HKSR]

30 minutes ago, Ohthehumanity said:

You're spot on, but let's give this guy a chance before we grab our torches and pitchforks.

Don't get me wrong, I hope he does really well here.  I just hope the fans don't put so much pressure on him thinking he can easily transform this team into the next Pittsburgh Penguins.

[Ohthehumanity]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Don't get me wrong, I hope he does really well here.  I just hope the fans don't put so much pressure on him thinking he can easily transform this team into the next Pittsburgh Penguins.

No no, I knew what you meant. I feel the same way as you dude!

[Harold Drunken]

19 hours ago, HKSR said:

I hear your chances of success increases once you have a Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Kris Letang trio in your core.  The other guys just kinda fall into place after that.

Could you imagine if it was that black and white? 

 

Kessel, Kunitz, Guentzel, Fleury had major roles in winning those cups....along with guys like Rust, Dumoulin and countless others. You don't win Stanley cups without depth and role players. You can have 3 great players on your team, doesn't mean the rest of the roster "falls into place" it's not that easy. For instance, in 16/17 Nick Bonino had 18 playoff points, tied with Malkin and only 1 point behind Crosby. Kessell led the team in playoff scoring with 22 points in 24 games...trades and free agency signings you could argue played as big of a role in winning those cups as the core 3 did.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

The thing I'm excited about the most in listening to the new regime speak is the importance they are putting on properly developing talent at the AHL level and attracting top free agents from college and Europe. This team hasn't been nearly good enough at developing and promoting players from the AHL level. That's why I say don't rush Rathbone, let him gain more confidence down there, run powerplays and work on his defensive game. The best teams in the league let their talent simmer until they are truly ready, then they make an immediate impact. It really sounds like they are want to do it the right way, which means it may be a couple years before we see improvement but I'm ok with that.

[HKSR]

11 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Could you imagine if it was that black and white? 

 

Kessel, Kunitz, Guentzel, Fleury had major roles in winning those cups....along with guys like Rust, Dumoulin and countless others. You don't win Stanley cups without depth and role players. You can have 3 great players on your team, doesn't mean the rest of the roster "falls into place" it's not that easy. For instance, in 16/17 Nick Bonino had 18 playoff points, tied with Malkin and only 1 point behind Crosby. Kessell led the team in playoff scoring with 22 points in 24 games...trades and free agency signings you could argue played as big of a role in winning those cups as the core 3 did.

 

 

I think it IS that easy if you have core pieces like that in place. 

 

For Pittsburgh, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury.  Not many teams in the cap era history could put together a core like that.  Likely the greatest player in his generation as 1C, arguably another close-to-generational talent as 2C, one of the best defencemen of his generation for 1D, and a Vezina level goaltender in net. 

 

I keep hearing the Oilers as an example.  They have McDavid and Draisatl, but where is their Letang, and what about Fleury?  Give them Adam Fox or Cale Makar and Thatcher Demko and I guarantee they'd have a Cup without even looking at the other players. 

 

It's not hard to build a good supporting group.  It's DAMN hard to build a core at the Elite+ levels of Pittsburgh.

[Canucks Curse]

31 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Could you imagine if it was that black and white? 

 

Kessel, Kunitz, Guentzel, Fleury had major roles in winning those cups....along with guys like Rust, Dumoulin and countless others. You don't win Stanley cups without depth and role players. You can have 3 great players on your team, doesn't mean the rest of the roster "falls into place" it's not that easy. For instance, in 16/17 Nick Bonino had 18 playoff points, tied with Malkin and only 1 point behind Crosby. Kessell led the team in playoff scoring with 22 points in 24 games...trades and free agency signings you could argue played as big of a role in winning those cups as the core 3 did.

 

 

other guys that went into beast mode for that team in the cup runs - Trevor Daley, Bil; Guerin, Brooks orpik (these guys went balls to the wall and played some of the best hockey of their careers with that team)... Justin Schultz, Hainsey etc

[Canucks Curse]

surprised no one put up a thread (or maybe I cannot find it) about the Rutherfors interview today on sports net 650

[Harold Drunken]

4 hours ago, HKSR said:

I think it IS that easy if you have core pieces like that in place. 

 

For Pittsburgh, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury.  Not many teams in the cap era history could put together a core like that.  Likely the greatest player in his generation as 1C, arguably another close-to-generational talent as 2C, one of the best defencemen of his generation for 1D, and a Vezina level goaltender in net. 

 

I keep hearing the Oilers as an example.  They have McDavid and Draisatl, but where is their Letang, and what about Fleury?  Give them Adam Fox or Cale Makar and Thatcher Demko and I guarantee they'd have a Cup without even looking at the other players. 

 

It's not hard to build a good supporting group.  It's DAMN hard to build a core at the Elite+ levels of Pittsburgh.

I don't disagree, that core was amazing....the supporting cast in Pittsburgh was very good too though. As for Edmonton, 100% they have McDavid and Draisaitl..a year ago you could argue Nurse as well. But when you lack depth on defense, get poor goaltending and you're 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines aren't being very productive you start leaning too much on your top 2 or 3 guys. If guys like Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Hyman and Nuge get going then Edmonton could do damage....they need a #1 goalie in the worst way though. God I'm so happy we have Demko. The teams that have won the cup recently all have this in common....depth on D, great goaltending and 4 lines that contribute with different role players.

 

I would argue it IS hard to find a good supporting cast....as most teams in the league struggle with it. The roster turnover on most teams bottom 6 is high...and the never ending push to try and get 2 top lines that can score consistently is always a work in progress for most teams. Some like Tampa, Florida, Carolina have been lucky enough to get many lines to contribute but that's in no way the norm. If building a supporting cast was "easy", there wouldn't be as much disparity in the league. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

1 hour ago, Canucks Curse said:

other guys that went into beast mode for that team in the cup runs - Trevor Daley, Bil; Guerin, Brooks orpik (these guys went balls to the wall and played some of the best hockey of their careers with that team)... Justin Schultz, Hainsey etc

Very true.