Is Brock just another version of Pearson?

[Timråfan]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Brock didn't play with the Sedins - he played with Bear and Horvat.    And he wasn't on the first power play unit until  mid Novemberish - it went from mid 20's bad (for years by then)  all the way up to 9th overall as a result of adding him to it.   He actually helped the Sedins have a decent final season as much or more then the other way around.     That's false news.    Last season Brock was awesome, was showing what we'd all hoped he become.   His 200 foot game is much improved - and his little post season sample was better then both Pearson and Tyler Toffoli's - both those guys disappeared, Brock wasn't getting on the board but was taking hits to make plays (took a massive one in MIN, think it was Soucy) and hustling back every shift the puck was in our zone.     Yes he's off this year.    Don't know why - but at least he's producing a little more like his career average since Bruce came in.     Think on the open market that he'd get a decent deal.  If we trade him it should be because he won't sign a decent deal with us long term.   If he's not qualified or taken to arbitration, he becomes a UFA this off season.    Without that ridiculous rule - QO - he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.   As it is he still kind of doesn't IF he wants to sign long term.   He's no Phil Kessel (yet anyways - would have to really work on his skating Phil was fast), but you need those support players too. Our RW depth would take a big hit without him.    Rutherford knows without Phil Kessel the Pens don't win their cups.   We don't have a Crosby or Malkin, but we do have a heck of a lot of guys that can score by committee and when they are all on, we are very very tough to beat.   Brock is in his prime and having a down year.    Think it's reasonable to say 50-70 is his range until he's 32ish,  that's not really worth 7.5 is it?    Not unless he's like Stone, an awesome two-way winger.   And he's no Patches not even close except for the injury's .... maybe some team would throw a stupid deal out there but his fair value is 5.5-6.5 x 5/6... that's it.   We won't be that team that signs a ridiculous deal will we?  

Ok

Before someone mentioned he played with the Sedins and then he was a perfect mate to Petey for a while. 
Probably both Petey and Boesers problems is due to injuries unless they say something different later. 
 

As I see it he needs someone powerful or creative by his side, Sedins, Horvat, Petey, Miller. So he shouldn’t be so expensive.

Unless he is hamstred by an injurie.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Timråfan

[IBatch]

52 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Ok

Before someone mentioned he played with the Sedins and then he was a perfect mate to Petey for a while. 
Probably both Petey and Boesers problems is due to injuries unless they say something different later. 
 

As I see it he needs someone powerful or creative by his side, Sedins, Horvat, Petey, Miller. So he shouldn’t be so expensive.

Unless he is hamstred by an injurie.

I don't think he's earned his qualifying offer either.    Even if the cap kept going up.    It's funny how recency seems to matter a lot.    Back when Brock's deal was up there were many on this site that felt a Tarasenko like deal (myself included!) would be fair and reasonable 7.5 x 7/8 years.    Feel that their agent did too because they were so far off in a long term deal JB just went out and spent the rest, leaving only 6! to sign Brock.    The kid had a lot of us thinking 35-40 goals in his prime as the norm, with a shot at 50 even....A deserved all-star game and was also the MVP - got injured, had a so so second season but ... well he was injured which made it all still possible that once back to normal he'd be a 35/35 sort of guy.   All the fantasy mags also had him as a 70 plus point player his third full season ... to me i saw a Patrick Sharp type  .... CHI core player for awhile....Then EP came in and stole some thunder.    Now it's not nearly as clear.    Feel we'd be stupid to sign him at 7.5 x 8 even given the cap won't be going up much for another 2-3 years but you also never know.    29 goals his shortened rookie year had me salivating anyways.    Brock is a PP specialist.   Maybe he's more of an Oshie type but now even that's in doubt.    Guess we will find out - but feel he's earned a five year deal around 5.5-6 what he's already making and that's about it.    

 

Edit: Horvat has his best year with Brock at his side and Bear .... there is zero proof that Brock hasn't also helped others get their points because well - he has.     

Edited March 3, 2022 by IBatch

[Harold Drunken]

8 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

boeser is not amazing defensively but in terms of our top 6 players EP miller horvat garland boeser he is the 2nd best defensive player out of the top 6.. EP is miles ahead of everyone else on defensive side of the game.. miller is near the bottom.. just coz you take faceoffs doesn't automatically make you the best defensive player out of the bunch. Numbers don't lie.. when Boeser is on the ice the canucks control the puck over 55% of the time compared to his linemate miller who is slightly below 50% that's a signifcant difference. 

 

Boeser might not have the greatest footspeed but he can score goals when he's on and not a defensive liability

 

i dunno how you compare a .8ppg guy to a guy career less than 0.5ppg..

 

is myers just another version of chara?? they are both tall both plays defense.. just much less effective.

I wasn't comparing those two, the post I was replying to was. I acknowledged they are different players with different skillsets so sounds like we agree??

As I said, it all depends on what number his camp wants. I would love to have Brock back but he's going to cost a lot. 

No Idea what Myers and Chara have to so with anything we're talking about so I'll leave that one alone lol.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[wai_lai416]

26 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

I wasn't comparing those two, the post I was replying to was. I acknowledged they are different players with different skillsets so sounds like we agree??

As I said, it all depends on what number his camp wants. I would love to have Brock back but he's going to cost a lot. 

No Idea what Myers and Chara have to so with anything we're talking about so I'll leave that one alone lol.

wasn't exactly quoting you but just adding on more like referring to the op and i say chara and myers since he's asking if boeser and pearson the same based on their production this season because they play the same position lol

[EddieVedder]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Brock didn't play with the Sedins - he played with Bear and Horvat.    And he wasn't on the first power play unit until  mid Novemberish - it went from mid 20's bad (for years by then)  all the way up to 9th overall as a result of adding him to it.   He actually helped the Sedins have a decent final season as much or more then the other way around.     That's false news.    Last season Brock was awesome, was showing what we'd all hoped he become.   His 200 foot game is much improved - and his little post season sample was better then both Pearson and Tyler Toffoli's - both those guys disappeared, Brock wasn't getting on the board but was taking hits to make plays (took a massive one in MIN, think it was Soucy) and hustling back every shift the puck was in our zone.     Yes he's off this year.    Don't know why - but at least he's producing a little more like his career average since Bruce came in.     Think on the open market that he'd get a decent deal.  If we trade him it should be because he won't sign a decent deal with us long term.   If he's not qualified or taken to arbitration, he becomes a UFA this off season.    Without that ridiculous rule - QO - he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.   As it is he still kind of doesn't IF he wants to sign long term.   He's no Phil Kessel (yet anyways - would have to really work on his skating Phil was fast), but you need those support players too. Our RW depth would take a big hit without him.    Rutherford knows without Phil Kessel the Pens don't win their cups.   We don't have a Crosby or Malkin, but we do have a heck of a lot of guys that can score by committee and when they are all on, we are very very tough to beat.   Brock is in his prime and having a down year.    Think it's reasonable to say 50-70 is his range until he's 32ish,  that's not really worth 7.5 is it?    Not unless he's like Stone, an awesome two-way winger.   And he's no Patches not even close except for the injury's .... maybe some team would throw a stupid deal out there but his fair value is 5.5-6.5 x 5/6... that's it.   We won't be that team that signs a ridiculous deal will we?  

Stopped reading when you tried to claim brock has a 200 foot game.  He doesn't.   At all.  I havent seen a forward lose the puck in the defensive zone as much and regularly as ive seen brock lose it.

[Harold Drunken]

22 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Boeser is criminally underrated in this market. He's our top winger, a beast on the boards, 2nd best shot on the team, great passer but everyone is hung up on foot speed.  "But Rutherford likes speed" - he won a cup with that fat hotdog eating $%^* Kessel.  Don't want to pry into the personal lives of players but I got a good reason why he may be struggling this season and what's going through his head right now.  It would be a mammoth mistake to give up on him as some fans have already.  Just my two cents, love ya Boes.

Before you get too much further on Phil Kessel being useless:

1175 GP / 937 points .80 PPG

 

Kessel stats' the years they won the cup:

15/16 Reg season - 82 GP, 26 G, 33 A - 59 Points

15/16 Playoffs - 24 GP, 10 G, 12 A - 22 Points (1st on the team in playoff scoring)

 

16/17 Reg season -82 GP, 23 G, 47 A - 70 Points

15/16 Playoffs - 25 GP, 8G, 15A - 23 Points (3rd on the team in playoff scoring, 4 points behind Sid)

 

To sit there and type "he won a cup with that fat hotdog eating $%^* Kessel" is a ridiculously ignorant thing to say as Kessel was literally one of the reasons they won those cups. Yeah, Kessel and Boes actually have similar foot speed, difference is Kessel has been a consistent prolific scorer during his entire career on multiple teams lol.

 

[IBatch]

56 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Stopped reading when you tried to claim brock has a 200 foot game.  He doesn't.   At all.  I havent seen a forward lose the puck in the defensive zone as much and regularly as ive seen brock lose it.

OMG - that's ok Eddie i can't read some of your stuff with out shaking my head.   Your reading comprehension needs improvement - "his 200 foot game is much improved " in reference to his last season compared to when he first started.    And yes Pearson was basically a kitten vs Vegas - Tyler Toffoli is also not a "heavy player" like some seem to think - was also a kitten along the boards.   These things are actually tracked - last year - and i know your going to hate this - Brock was the 12th best forward in the league along the boards in puck battles won...yet he's one dimensional.   Like Tyler he tried to put himself in lanes too shoot - that's what shooters do.   Th flip side is you can end out of position.    I've never claimed Brock is having a good year.    But he doesn't deserve some of the crap i see on this site either.    Can't wait to see how awesome Zacha is for example.    Aside from Garland and Miller - 5 x 5 we could pick on any forward this year...and even Miller still loves to make errant passes infront of the slot...comparing Brock to Pearson is the thread - a little ridiculous really.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by IBatch

[RU SERIOUS]

Brock has never been the same after that major injury to his back from the hit into the open door.     It's been a couple of years now and I think what we see is what will get going forward.     It is what it is and as a result I fully expect him to be traded - SHORTLY !

[EddieVedder]

Boeser the soft slow af turnover king

[73 Percent]

Considering their cap hits I'd rather Pearson.

[komodo0921]

Boeser looks more and more tradeable by the game.

 

[RU SERIOUS]

On 3/2/2022 at 9:22 PM, Fen1010 said:

I think it is Brock's 5v5 play that bothers me so much. He just does not offer much up, especially with his usual line mates most nights and his average ice time per game. I hope he is traded instead of Miller. Miller plays hard and you can see it. Brock.......

 

Pearson.                                  

 

 

Boeser.                                

 

Seriously; Pearson is having just about his best year as a Canuck. No complaints really.  He's playing like it means something to him.

Boeser has some serious talents that he needs to display on a more nightly basis.  He can be damn darn frustrating much of the time

and he really needs to pick up his play without the puck. Don't want to lose him to a cap crunch. Like to see a dynamite final third from 

him.  It's up to him to do the work. He's capable, I think.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Don't forget Miller.....................

 

Miller.

 

 

[Harold Drunken]

On 3/2/2022 at 9:48 AM, 204CanucksFan said:

Just throwing this out there to see who it triggers:

 

Tanner's best season is worse than Brock's worst season.

[48MPHSlapShot]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:05 PM, Jester13 said:

Pearson has 258 points in 559 games

 

Boeser has 240 points in 302 games.

This kinda says all that needs to be said. People can talk all they want about who has the more "complete" game, but at the end of the day the market has dictated that production is king, hence why Brock makes more money than Pearson.

[EddieVedder]

12 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

 

Pearson.                                  

 

 

Boeser.                                

 

Seriously; Pearson is having just about his best year as a Canuck. No complaints really.  He's playing like it means something to him.

Boeser has some serious talents that he needs to display on a more nightly basis.  He can be damn darn frustrating much of the time

and he really needs to pick up his play without the puck. Don't want to lose him to a cap crunch. Like to see a dynamite final third from 

him.  It's up to him to do the work. He's capable, I think.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Don't forget Miller.....................

 

Miller.

 

 

What are these 'serious talents'?  He cant skate, he cant stickhandling while skating, he is a turnover machine, he is soft on the puck.  What exactly are these serious talents? 

He has an above average shot, thats it.

   

[thrago]

Brock's best years where playing with Bo and bearcheese, I don't understand why they don't have him playing with Bo anymore.  It could be that EP/JT just don't play a game that works for him.  That being said we need to make some moves and he seems to be the most logical person to move.

 

As for Pearson, I still think he is the most under rated person on the team, I don't get the criticism that he gets.  He's a complementary player and a good one IMHO but his point totals go where Bo's go and Bo is having a bad year.  He's kind of like Burrows in a way, he didn't drive the offense as much as his hard work allowed the Sedins to do their thing. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by thrago

[EddieVedder]

3 hours ago, thrago said:

Brock's best years where playing with Bo and bearcheese, I don't understand why they don't have him playing with Bo anymore.  It could be that EP/JT just don't play a game that works for him.  That being said we need to make some moves and he seems to be the most logical person to move.

 

As for Pearson, I still think he is the most under rated person on the team, I don't get the criticism that he gets.  He's a complementary player and a good one IMHO but his point totals go where Bo's go and Bo is having a bad year.  He's kind of like Burrows in a way, he didn't drive the offense as much as his hard work allowed the Sedins to do their thing. 

Pearson is the most underrated player on the club.  He is strong on the puck, excellent along the walls, rarely loses it, and goes to the net.  You rarely see him turn the puck over.  No, hes not fast, but he can keep up.  He has a high enough hockey iq that he can play with any of our centres. You need these type of players in your middle six.  

 

[Tiger-Hearted]

On 3/3/2022 at 12:19 PM, RU SERIOUS said:

Brock has never been the same after that major injury to his back from the hit into the open door.     It's been a couple of years now and I think what we see is what will get going forward.     It is what it is and as a result I fully expect him to be traded - SHORTLY !

Very true. I do think that Brock's rookie season-ending injury has been more mental than physical. 

 

If the Canucks do decide to keep Brock and for Brock to finally evolve into an elite NHL sniper, working on his skating should be a #1 priority this off-season.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Boeser has been frustating to watch, sure, and he's made some really bone-headed defensive plays lately too (especially that turnover to Matthews) but people forget that he is scoring right now. He doesn't look dominant, put he's producing.

 

Brock's got 14 points in his last 14 games and 25 in his last 32 games. Hovering around the 60-80 point pace mark is as good as it gets really.

 

The kid is young, streaky and going through some strange times but people forget that he's still scoring and need to show some patience with Brock. He's got 30 goal, 70-80 point potential within him, we just need to harness it consistently. People forget he was our best forward last year by a long shot too.

[EddieVedder]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Boeser has been frustating to watch, sure, and he's made some really bone-headed defensive plays lately too (especially that turnover to Matthews) but people forget that he is scoring right now. He doesn't look dominant, put he's producing.

 

Brock's got 14 points in his last 14 games and 25 in his last 32 games. Hovering around the 60-80 point pace mark is as good as it gets really.

 

The kid is young, streaky and going through some strange times but people forget that he's still scoring and need to show some patience with Brock. He's got 30 goal, 70-80 point potential within him, we just need to harness it consistently. People forget he was our best forward last year by a long shot too.

He makes bonehead plays consistently and always has.  Half his goals have been tapins or pucks that just happened to touch him.  He scores at a lesser rate per playing time than Chiasson.  Hes a brutal skater and getting worse.  Hes not a line driver, or a play driver by any means. He is easily our physically weakest player.  No, he wasnt our best forward "by a long shot" last yr.