Would you re-sign JT Miller to a 7.5m/7yrs extension?

[Junkyard Dog]

5 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Think the real question is, can we live with him as a passenger the last 2-3 years of his contract... or at least no more...

If we get a good 5 years out of him it'll be until QH is 27 and EP 30... so are we prepared to let 2-3 season go with Miller as a passenger at those 2 players prime?

To be honest, I'm not sure... My head say trade him and make a killing with players, who can support EP in his prime, but my heart says roll with, while its hot... Who knows if EP will be able to carry the team in a few years time? Could get an injury loss of form etc etc....

 

Think I'll leave it to Alwyn to figure out...and if it doesn't work, I'll do like most and be cleaver afterwards 

If we sign him than we probably aren’t looking that far ahead in terms of competing. We could rebuild at that point. 

[spook007]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

If we sign him than we probably aren’t looking that far ahead in terms of competing. We could rebuild at that point. 

Yeah true, and that is the point that says sign him and run with it, cause who knows, what lays in the future...

And.... we could possible be lucky he doesn't fall off a cliff edge, and actually can stay a top 6 player to the end of his contract. Now that would be something with both him and EP and Quinn for the next 8 years at a good rate...

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Yeah true, and that is the point that says sign him and run with it, cause who knows, what lays in the future...

And.... we could possible be lucky he doesn't fall off a cliff edge, and actually can stay a top 6 player to the end of his contract. Now that would be something with both him and EP and Quinn for the next 8 years at a good rate...

Wishful thinking that they do but everyone will hope so. He’s only been a true top player this year. Last year Boeser was the best forward and Miller’s first year the lotto line was functioning with a hot Petey. I have concerns on whether or not that he can keep up this level of play. He broke out at 29. Short sample size. 

 

I question how well we’d be able to shape the roster around them. Might have to trade other quality forwards out in order to address other problems. It require some serious retooling. 

 

Prospect pool needs to get better. Especially at D. That current D-core will start to regress before Miller does. Need to add quality youth there and soon. No succession as it stands. 
 

Gotta pray OEL holds up as well as Miller too with his contract.
 

 If we’re gonna sign him I’d just give him big money on a 5 year term. Like 10M x 5 years front loaded. More money for less term.  Anything past 5 years concerns me. 

[aGENT]

39 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Think the real question is, can we live with him as a passenger the last 2-3 years of his contract... or at least no more...

If we get a good 5 years out of him it'll be until QH is 27 and EP 30... so are we prepared to let 2-3 season go with Miller as a passenger at those 2 players prime?

To be honest, I'm not sure... My head say trade him and make a killing with players, who can support EP in his prime, but my heart says roll with, while its hot... Who knows if EP will be able to carry the team in a few years time? Could get an injury loss of form etc etc....

 

Think I'll leave it to Alwyn to figure out...and if it doesn't work, I'll do like most and be cleaver afterwards 

I don't think we even get 5 years in to that contract. We'd be lucky to get 5 years from now, one year out from his new deal. We've probably got 3, maybe 4 years from NOW (2-3 in to new deal) before he becomes a 2nd line player. Another couple seasons after that until he's an $8.5m Player Name, errrr I mean... 3rd liner.

 

Half that deal is likely going to be BAD. 1/4 of it, not great but manageable. 

 

BAD MATH.

[spook007]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

I don't think we even get 5 years in to that contract. We'd be lucky to get 5 years from now, one year out from his new deal. We've probably got 3, maybe 4 years from NOW (2-3 in to new deal) before he becomes a 2nd line player. Another couple seasons after that until he's an $8.5m Player Name, errrr I mean... 3rd liner.

 

Half that deal is likely going to be BAD. 1/4 of it, not great but manageable. 

 

BAD MATH.

That's kind of what my brains tells me as well...

But it also tells me, we need a good..no great haul to let Miller go... Have had enough of watching us lose...

[spook007]

On 3/10/2022 at 7:34 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

Wishful thinking that they do but everyone will hope so. He’s only been a true top player this year. Last year Boeser was the best forward and Miller’s first year the lotto line was functioning with a hot Petey. I have concerns on whether or not that he can keep up this level of play. He broke out at 29. Short sample size. 

 

I question how well we’d be able to shape the roster around them. Might have to trade other quality forwards out in order to address other problems. It require some serious retooling. 

 

Prospect pool needs to get better. Especially at D. That current D-core will start to regress before Miller does. Need to add quality youth there and soon. No succession as it stands. 
 

Gotta pray OEL holds up as well as Miller too with his contract.
 

 If we’re gonna sign him I’d just give him big money on a 5 year term. Like 10M x 5 years front loaded. More money for less term.  Anything past 5 years concerns me. 

Yeah thats more likely to be the case. 
hopefully Woo can make the next step, cause if we're going to pay Miller 10M the next 5 years, serious decisions needs to be made regarding Boeser, and Myers + EP long term... 

it is doable, but we will definitely have zero flexibility...

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Yeah thats more likely to be the case. 
hopefully Woo can make the next step, cause if we're going to pay Miller 10M the next 5 years, serious decisions needs to be made regarding Boeser, and Myers + EP long term... 

it is doable, but we will definitely have zero flexibility...

You just got me spooked...  

[Junkyard Dog]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Yeah thats more likely to be the case. 
hopefully Woo can make the next step, cause if we're going to pay Miller 10M the next 5 years, serious decisions needs to be made regarding Boeser, and Myers + EP long term... 

it is doable, but we will definitely have zero flexibility...

I see Woo as a potential solid top 6 D. Could be the younger Schenn maybe. A guy that gives you a hard 16-17 minutes like Schenn does. He hasn't really stood out like blue chip D. Nothing wrong with that though we need defenseman like him in the top 6 and Schenn would be a good mentor for him.

 

Also need to consider guys coming off ELCs down the line that will be due raises, especially if they break out. It's a part of the reason I would part with one or two of Boeser/Garland on top of potentially helping solve long-term D problems and adding flexibility with the cap and prospect pool. Having a good prospect pool and cap give you opportunity out in the trade market too. Especially in the off-season where a team might have to unload a good player for cap relief(like TBL did with JT Miller). That's why I want to look to accomplish continuing to build back up our pool(after the losses, traded picks and graduates) and clear cap since we may run into another opportunity like that.

 

I think if one or both of Garland/Boeser goes it has to include someone with greater potential than Woo that is pretty much ready or that already is a top 4 RD that we'll have for a while. Marino from Pitts a good example of a guy who can be with us during this window but some dominos probably have to fall first in Pittsburgh before they move him. Schneider is an example of a more promising D that's ready now but I don't think we are getting Schneider from the Rags anymore.

 

The reason I say Boeser and/or Garland because they'd have the value to address those concerns and they both take up a considerable amount of cap. Whereas a guy like Pearson wouldn't be enough to return a top 4 D like Marino or add a promising young RD and clear considerable cap. I think it is important to solve more than one issue in a trade and I believe you can do that with a Boeser and/or a Garland compared to anyone of lesser value like a Pearson.

 

The draft will also help long-term. Some guys at RD I like in the 15-30 range like Chesley or Luneau this year. Would be nice to add some picks but I wouldn't want picks as the main return in any major deal if we're trying to compete next year. We'd need players back as the main asset. Like if we went after Marino I'd try to go after Kapanen too since he's a cheaper top 9 RW that's in our age group and hasn't fit in Pittsburgh. Even if we add a bit to do it we're better off than just trading Boeser/Garland for picks if we're trying to compete.

 

Will be an interesting off-season to see how JR/PA goes about retooling.

 

I hope that if they re-sign Miller they will try to base it off of his entire time here and not just this year. He's playing like a 10M player right now and each year with us has been different. Miller holds all the cards though so I guess trying to make a new contract based off of his entire time here is moot. I will be very interested in how Miller follows up this year.

 

Plenty of possibility. Maybe could be an off-season that could define the decade.

[Junkyard Dog]

34 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You just got me spooked...  

If we're keeping Miller I think Boeser and/or Garland goes. Petey/Horvat/Miller will be the forwards we continue to build around since they're the top 3 forwards on the team.

[Phat Fingers]

Yup.

[spook007]

6 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

I see Woo as a potential solid top 6 D. Could be the younger Schenn maybe. A guy that gives you a hard 16-17 minutes like Schenn does. He hasn't really stood out like blue chip D. Nothing wrong with that though we need defenseman like him in the top 6 and Schenn would be a good mentor for him.

 

Also need to consider guys coming off ELCs down the line that will be due raises, especially if they break out. It's a part of the reason I would part with one or two of Boeser/Garland on top of potentially helping solve long-term D problems and adding flexibility with the cap and prospect pool. Having a good prospect pool and cap give you opportunity out in the trade market too. Especially in the off-season where a team might have to unload a good player for cap relief(like TBL did with JT Miller). That's why I want to look to accomplish continuing to build back up our pool(after the losses, traded picks and graduates) and clear cap since we may run into another opportunity like that.

 

I think if one or both of Garland/Boeser goes it has to include someone with greater potential than Woo that is pretty much ready or that already is a top 4 RD that we'll have for a while. Marino from Pitts a good example of a guy who can be with us during this window but some dominos probably have to fall first in Pittsburgh before they move him. Schneider is an example of a more promising D that's ready now but I don't think we are getting Schneider from the Rags anymore.

 

The reason I say Boeser and/or Garland because they'd have the value to address those concerns and they both take up a considerable amount of cap. Whereas a guy like Pearson wouldn't be enough to return a top 4 D like Marino or add a promising young RD and clear considerable cap. I think it is important to solve more than one issue in a trade and I believe you can do that with a Boeser and/or a Garland compared to anyone of lesser value like a Pearson.

 

The draft will also help long-term. Some guys at RD I like in the 15-30 range like Chesley or Luneau this year. Would be nice to add some picks but I wouldn't want picks as the main return in any major deal if we're trying to compete next year. We'd need players back as the main asset. Like if we went after Marino I'd try to go after Kapanen too since he's a cheaper top 9 RW that's in our age group and hasn't fit in Pittsburgh. Even if we add a bit to do it we're better off than just trading Boeser/Garland for picks if we're trying to compete.

 

Will be an interesting off-season to see how JR/PA goes about retooling.

 

I hope that if they re-sign Miller they will try to base it off of his entire time here and not just this year. He's playing like a 10M player right now and each year with us has been different. Miller holds all the cards though so I guess trying to make a new contract based off of his entire time here is moot. I will be very interested in how Miller follows up this year.

 

Plenty of possibility. Maybe could be an off-season that could define the decade.

Cheers JD...

Yes well said and that is about how it will be played out, if they decide to keep Miller. 

Brock will definitely be in play as his next contract will likely be costly, and we may end up losing him for nowt, so I expect him to be shopped already... Garland, maybe, as his cap is not bad and locked for another 4 years, but if we want to sign high value contracts (Miller) and flexibility we got to find money somewhere... Pearson I doubt will be in play this season with his NTC... I believe its modified next year, but his contract is up in 2 years anyway, so I will almost be surprised if he is the one leaving... Dickinson will probably be gone if they can find a taker...

 

Yes Woo could be a Schenn replacement with a bit of luck, and that would be just fine... Schenn plays his position brilliantly for his cap hit. Toughness and protection of Hughes... lack of speed is the trade off, for having a cheap d man able to do the other 2 things...

 

Don't know about Myers and him being traded... I'm not sure we'll get much better D-man for his money (or cheaper)... Schmidt showed, that it isn't guaranteed the get any better, just because they shine in other colours...

 

I've said it before, this could/will define Alwyn ability too build a winner... To keep or not to keep Miller... Welcome to Vancouver Alwyn... the knives will be sharpened soon, if this back fires...

 

Picks are great, but will likely be 2-4 years before they will become relevant, so if they want to stock the cupboards with picks, I don't see the reason to keep Miller. You nailed it, saying picks are good, but the main piece in any trades should be players, who are ready to go straight in to the roster and help, + prospects ready to make the jump (or very close)... Rathbone has lots of talent, but has yet to be able to show up on the big stage... just go to show, that despite them showing well in the A, doesn't make them guarantees to succeed...

 

Very very interesting TDL and off season coming up, and probably even more next year... 

 

In saying all that, from my seat in front of the telly, I'm enjoying watching the team compete again. Its been a while, but damn it feels good to win some hockey games...

.

[EddieVedder]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:00 AM, spook007 said:

Think the real question is, can we live with him as a passenger the last 2-3 years of his contract... or at least no more...

If we get a good 5 years out of him it'll be until QH is 27 and EP 30... so are we prepared to let 2-3 season go with Miller as a passenger at those 2 players prime?

To be honest, I'm not sure... My head say trade him and make a killing with players, who can support EP in his prime, but my heart says roll with, while its hot... Who knows if EP will be able to carry the team in a few years time? Could get an injury loss of form etc etc....

 

Think I'll leave it to Alwyn to figure out...and if it doesn't work, I'll do like most and be cleaver afterwards 

Ep is 28 in 5 yrs. 

[Warhippy]

Now?  Yes.  No question.  Would be a discount

[teepain]

I believe miller would take the deal if he think he can win with these guys. He cares more about winning 

 

7.5 x 8

60 mill on the table

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, teepain said:

I believe miller would take the deal if he think he can win with these guys. He cares more about winning 

 

7.5 x 8

60 mill on the table

Or he can take a bigger deal with a better team like Carolina in couple years when they have some aging contract coming off.. Miller watching the defense and thinks to himself hell no can we even make the playoff consistently with this trash defense 

[Nucklefuts]

Decide at trade deadline. 

[spook007]

In a heart beat.....

[spook007]

On 3/9/2022 at 1:08 AM, JM_ said:

thats what I was thinking, front load that puppy as much has possible, max bonus, etc. but leave the last few years with minimal or no NTC. There may not be many owners willing to front that cash, but Aqulini would. 

This is the best set up, I've heard yet regarding Miller...

Great call...

[teepain]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Or he can take a bigger deal with a better team like Carolina in couple years when they have some aging contract coming off.. Miller watching the defense and thinks to himself hell no can we even make the playoff consistently with this trash defense 

Do they have even have cap space to fill their own roster + miller

[mll]

35 minutes ago, teepain said:

Do they have even have cap space to fill their own roster + miller

Eric Tulsky is Carolina's AGM and some believe he is ear-marked to take over from Waddell down the road.  He comes from the analytical community and did a lot of work on ageing curves before joining the Canes.  It's hard to believe that they would target Miller given his conclusions.