Dr. Crossbar Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: Well this year certainly doesn't matter which is the only one he's signed for. I can't understand all the whining when it simply doesn't matter if Motte or some 37 year old journeyman plays out the last 18 games or not. He's not going to be on the team next year no matter what so this simply doesn't matter in any dimension but whatever keep crying over absolutely nothing I guess. How people don't understand what UFA means is perplexing. Carrying on with not caring. You do you. Fair enough you certainly have every right to be skeptical and question whatever you want. I think they actually meant they want to get younger and faster as a team but for guys like you they should have added [but obviously at times veteran players will be brought in if deemed necessary or they have high quality, and in a situation where we trade fourth liner at the TDL an older player may be brought in because they are free and we don't want blow a 2nd rounder or replace with a crappy young player just so we can satisfy a soundbite saying we'd like to get younger]. Man these press conferences would be dumb if they had to talk like that and provide caveats for every sentence they say. For some I guess that's where at though. Whatever, seems really silly when it's completely obvious to me that they're not planning on getting older despite taking on a free older player for 18 meaningless games. Look, I get what you're saying and don't disagree. But I'm pretty sure the last regime actually meant they wanted to get younger and faster too - youth, speed, skill. Part of where the past management went wrong was saying we need to get younger and then suddenly sign older veterans. We all saw it happen. I'm simply saying this echoed that for me and it's a bit of a red flag. Could be something, could be nothing. All of the "guys like you" or "not caring" is unnecessary. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Except we need a placeholder cause we have zero center depth right now. This is about necessity more than anything. That's true, and I think most people understand this is to fill 4th line hole in the lineup for this season. He's got some good PK and faceoff experience. He will help the younger guys learn a few things. It has nothing to do with next year, as we have Linus Karlsson make a push. In other news, Karlsson just broke Petey's goal record in the SHL by a rookie. He's older than Petey was at the time, but it's still a good sign. And if that doesn't work out, there will be all sorts of options in the off season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Except we need a placeholder cause we have zero center depth right now. This is about necessity more than anything. Love the guy and all but I just expected more than 37 year old Brad Richardson. That's on me, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Look, I get what you're saying and don't disagree. But I'm pretty sure the last regime actually meant they wanted to get younger and faster too - youth, speed, skill. Part of where the past management went wrong was saying we need to get younger and then suddenly sign older veterans. We all saw it happen. I'm simply saying this echoed that for me and it's a bit of a red flag. Could be something, could be nothing. All of the "guys like you" or "not caring" is unnecessary. Yeah, Gawd degrades his good content with these worthless and insulting jabs. Take the high road man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 19 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Love the guy and all but I just expected more than 37 year old Brad Richardson. That's on me, though. Well we weren’t exactly gonna be buyers at the deadline. We got him for free so I’m not too worried about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJC Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Love the guy and all but I just expected more than 37 year old Brad Richardson. That's on me, though. Richardson negates the Sutter loss. try and look at it that way if it helps at all. excellent room guy, responsible, veteran stabilizing presence... none of us know how Sutter would fare returning from long covid of all things, so in the event he doesn’t make his way back, we have someone who can step into Sutter’s role (who’s not exactly a spring chicken either) plus plus - he has history with this club and was a friggin warrior. He’s older, sure, but he brings that mindset to this culture, which for the last few games we’ve seen has been complacent and passive at times. Especially at the start of a game. He has value, even if just for the remaining schedule. Edited March 22, 2022 by RWJC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) We needed to add a body especially at C. Papering down and recalling Podz and Petan leaves us only 2 more recalls until end of year. ‘We needed a depth forward as insurance, especially if Rathbone and Lockwood are going to get games. Edited March 22, 2022 by DrJockitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, RWJC said: Richardson negates the Sutter loss. try and look at it that way if it helps at all. excellent room guy, responsible, veteran stabilizing presence... none of us know how Sutter would fare returning from long covid of all things, so in the event he doesn’t make his way back, we have someone who can step into Sutter’s role (who’s not exactly a spring chicken either) plus plus - he has history with this club and was a friggin warrior. He’s older, sure, but he brings that mindset to this culture, which for the last few games we’ve seen has been complacent and passive at times. Especially at the start of a game. He has value, even if just for the remaining schedule. Thanks. I appreciate it. That's not a bad way to look at it. Sutter is/was a great room guy and leader, which we have missed. Totally see and agree with what you say. It's not that I have anything against Richardson, the player or leader, or the free pickup or the fact that he's only here for 18 games. I was just really surprised that we brought in a 37 year old player since we really did spend several recent years on these same talking points. I just wanted to call attention to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Look, I get what you're saying and don't disagree. But I'm pretty sure the last regime actually meant they wanted to get younger and faster too - youth, speed, skill. Part of where the past management went wrong was saying we need to get younger and then suddenly sign older veterans. We all saw it happen. I'm simply saying this echoed that for me and it's a bit of a red flag. Could be something, could be nothing. All of the "guys like you" or "not caring" is unnecessary. The thing is plans are fluid. A good GM is constantly adapting to current circumstance. Which means not every move will be to the letter of what was previously said. When Rutherford said that he likely would have liked to retain Motte. Well, Motte wanted more that Rutherford was willing to pay so he was moved. His adaption to circumstance was to move Motte and replace him with a free bandaid for the final 18 games. That doesn't mean his plan has changed or that he lied. He simply adapted to a current circumstance that doesn't affect or change the long term plan at all. I agree like or not caring is unnecessary. It doesn't mean that's not a big influencer on fan opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, Baggins said: The thing is plans are fluid. A good GM is constantly adapting to current circumstance. Which means not every move will be to the letter of what was previously said. When Rutherford said that he likely would have liked to retain Motte. Well, Motte wanted more that Rutherford was willing to pay so he was moved. His adaption to circumstance was to move Motte and replace him with a free bandaid for the final 18 games. That doesn't mean his plan has changed or that he lied. He simply adapted to a current circumstance that doesn't affect or change the long term plan at all. I agree like or not caring is unnecessary. It doesn't mean that's not a big influencer on fan opinion though. Hey, trust me, I get all of what you're saying, and you articulate that well. I'm not lost on any of that and agree with you. I understand the rationale of the Motte trade. At this early stage, even prior to the deadline, I'm just seeing/hearing some similarities between this new regime and some of the talking points/approach of the old regime. The Richardson pickup just echoed some of that for me from the call to get younger standpount and yet we bring in a 37 year old. I understand it but it just reminded me of the old regime. I'm still open and supportive of JR and Allvin, it's so early, I'm just surprised by some of what they've been saying, because it's very similar. I don't think they're lying or have lied. I do think they're oblivious to the fact that this fanbase has heard all of their talking points for the past 8 seasons to mediocre results. I'm surprised from a PR standpoint, Smyl or someone internally hasn't pointed that out. But like you say, this is all fluid. I'm looking forward to the offseason ... not so much of hearing the same talking points we've heard for 8 seasons. The new management team should be aware of that imo when speaking to the fanbase. I'm not really invested in dying on this hill as some may think. I get all sides of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Hey, trust me, I get all of what you're saying, and you articulate that well. I'm not lost on any of that and agree with you. I understand the rationale of the Motte trade. At this early stage, even prior to the deadline, I'm just seeing/hearing some similarities between this new regime and some of the talking points/approach of the old regime. The Richardson pickup just echoed some of that for me from the call to get younger standpount and yet we bring in a 37 year old. I understand it but it just reminded me of the old regime. I'm still open and supportive of JR and Allvin, it's so early, I'm just surprised by some of what they've been saying, because it's very similar. I don't think they're lying or have lied. I do think they're oblivious to the fact that this fanbase has heard all of their talking points for the past 8 seasons to mediocre results. I'm surprised from a PR standpoint, Smyl or someone internally hasn't pointed that out. But like you say, this is all fluid. I'm looking forward to the offseason ... not so much of hearing the same talking points we've heard for 8 seasons. The new management team should be aware of that imo when speaking to the fanbase. I'm not really invested in dying on this hill as some may think. I get all sides of it. Well, if it's any consolation, Allvin has a much, much better starting point than Benning had. There are some decent prospects in the pool already, there's more than one player on the roster under 27 worth keeping, and he has a young established world class goalie. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Baggins said: Well, if it's any consolation, Allvin has a much, much better starting point than Benning had. There are some decent prospects in the pool already, there's more than one player on the roster under 27 worth keeping, and he has a young established world class goalie. So true. That's a really good way to look at things. He doesn't have to navigate 10 NTC/NMCs. Plus, I'd like to see how Lockwood does in the Motte spot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, Baggins said: Well, if it's any consolation, Allvin has a much, much better starting point than Benning had. There are some decent prospects in the pool already, there's more than one player on the roster under 27 worth keeping, and he has a young established world class goalie. Similar to where Gillis started with us? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 54 minutes ago, Alflives said: Similar to where Gillis started with us? Gillis did walk into a good situation to build around. Allvin has walked into a good situation with two major pieces still very young. I've never seen a GM walk into a situation as ugly as Benning did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, Baggins said: Gillis did walk into a good situation to build around. Allvin has walked into a good situation with two major pieces still very young. I've never seen a GM walk into a situation as ugly as Benning did. It's not where you starts that counts...it's where you end up. And though I agree Benning didn't start with much and was handicapped with giving the Sedins a couple of more tries even though the team was a heaping pile of nothing has left Allvin with some decent pieces to work with (i.e., Demko, Hughes and Miller), he couldn't get the team out of first gear during his entire tenure. Gillis, as much as he was given, was able to take the team to two Presidents Cups (not that that is worth much) and one game away from the Cup. We'll see where Allvin takes the Canucks. Hopefully it will be somewhere magical before I have to convert my RRSPs and LIRAs to RIFs and start collecting OAS cheques from the government and before my three months old son starts middle school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Hey, trust me, I get all of what you're saying, and you articulate that well. I'm not lost on any of that and agree with you. I understand the rationale of the Motte trade. At this early stage, even prior to the deadline, I'm just seeing/hearing some similarities between this new regime and some of the talking points/approach of the old regime. The Richardson pickup just echoed some of that for me from the call to get younger standpount and yet we bring in a 37 year old. I understand it but it just reminded me of the old regime. I'm still open and supportive of JR and Allvin, it's so early, I'm just surprised by some of what they've been saying, because it's very similar. I don't think they're lying or have lied. I do think they're oblivious to the fact that this fanbase has heard all of their talking points for the past 8 seasons to mediocre results. I'm surprised from a PR standpoint, Smyl or someone internally hasn't pointed that out. But like you say, this is all fluid. I'm looking forward to the offseason ... not so much of hearing the same talking points we've heard for 8 seasons. The new management team should be aware of that imo when speaking to the fanbase. I'm not really invested in dying on this hill as some may think. I get all sides of it. Maybe I can add another perspective... Benning and Weisbrod would have probably panicked and signed Motte to a 3 year $3M AAV (like they did with Roussel and Beagle, and to some degree, Pearson at a higher AAV last spring). Allvin and Rutherford, to their credit, stayed cool and calm and got whatever the market allowed for a fourth line winger, which was a fourth round pick. The Richardson waiver claim won't even be a footnote to this season once it's over. This move tells me that Allvin and Rutherford are interested in ensuring Abbotsford has a decent run into the Calder Cup tourney. Richardson is a placeholder for the balance of this season and you'll probably forget that he played parts of the final 18 games of the 2021-22 season once the season is over. Motte is fast, disciplined and all the things JR/PA have talked about wanting their players to be, but there is a capped amount of money to spend on players like Motte, which is further exacerbated by the way Benning spent money like a drunken sailor. If Motte's agent and the team were far apart on a value for Motte, then I'm glad the current management let Motte go. At the very least, we know now that JR/PA won't be spending $3M AAV on fourth line forwards. Hindsight is 20/20, and now that we've watched another failed season come and go (in 18 games), wouldn't it be great to see Loui E r i k s s o n's $6M, Roussel's $3M and Beagle's $3M come off the books rather than having OEL $7.25M albatross hanging over the team? Even for this season, I would have much rather had Edler at $3.5M cap hit than OEL for $7.25M. But that's the parting gift Benning left all of us, and I bring this up because this is another example of Benning's short-sightedness and lack of vision for the franchise. I might be delusional, but I believe the current management is much more prudent with asset management and handling of cap, and have a vision of where they want the team to be, whereas Benning and his group of drunken sailors (that being him and Weisbrod) did not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 9 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Look, I get what you're saying and don't disagree. But I'm pretty sure the last regime actually meant they wanted to get younger and faster too - youth, speed, skill. Part of where the past management went wrong was saying we need to get younger and then suddenly sign older veterans. We all saw it happen. I'm simply saying this echoed that for me and it's a bit of a red flag. Could be something, could be nothing. All of the "guys like you" or "not caring" is unnecessary. Yeah they did, sorry got a little riled up there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, bigbadcanucks said: Benning and Weisbrod would have probably panicked and signed Motte to a 3 year $3M AAV (like they did with Roussel and Beagle, and to some degree, Pearson at a higher AAV last spring). Pearson as a canuck... 199 games 53 goals and 53 assists 22 goals and 44 points every 82 games His full NTC turns into 7 team no trade next season and then no protection at all the season after. At 3.25mil there is nothing wrong with that deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 11 hours ago, Baggins said: Gillis did walk into a good situation to build around. Allvin has walked into a good situation with two major pieces still very young. I've never seen a GM walk into a situation as ugly as Benning did. I would also say that Allvin has walked into a difficult position, The team cannot afford to keep what it had which wasn't good enough and needs to resign players and he has to hope other teams see value in what he wants to trade, (knowing he has to unleash them and have concerns with) and he will need to do that without including picks and cap, I don't think Allvin has anywhere the team Gilles got and will take longer than Gilles did and we won't see big improvement for 2-3 years, but i like the message they are sending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Hey, trust me, I get all of what you're saying, and you articulate that well. I'm not lost on any of that and agree with you. I understand the rationale of the Motte trade. At this early stage, even prior to the deadline, I'm just seeing/hearing some similarities between this new regime and some of the talking points/approach of the old regime. The Richardson pickup just echoed some of that for me from the call to get younger standpount and yet we bring in a 37 year old. I understand it but it just reminded me of the old regime. I'm still open and supportive of JR and Allvin, it's so early, I'm just surprised by some of what they've been saying, because it's very similar. I don't think they're lying or have lied. I do think they're oblivious to the fact that this fanbase has heard all of their talking points for the past 8 seasons to mediocre results. I'm surprised from a PR standpoint, Smyl or someone internally hasn't pointed that out. But like you say, this is all fluid. I'm looking forward to the offseason ... not so much of hearing the same talking points we've heard for 8 seasons. The new management team should be aware of that imo when speaking to the fanbase. I'm not really invested in dying on this hill as some may think. I get all sides of it. The thing is, there's going to be some similarities between current management and previous management. Realistically, did the previous management do absolutely everything wrong? Was the JT Miller trade bad? Was every contract signed bad? Was every hiring bad? My guess is that no one can say that everything was bad and absolutely mean it. So then this means previous management did some things right. Not everything of course since they're gone, but they did some things well enough to have stayed here for almost a decade. So then there are going to be similarities with current management while probably having some differences. Why? Because if previous management did some things right, it would make sense for current management to continue to do those things while fixing the errors of the past. So when I hear this whole notion of people seeing deja vu, all I can think is "of course this is going to happen". Not in a bad way, but in a way that would make sense. It seems like people expect the complete opposite. People seem to want to think "Benning bad, don't do anything Benning would do", but really that's more detrimental than helpful if we started to do the things Benning actually did right incorrectly. Also, current management will make mistakes. Everyone does. We have to realise this as well. Nothing's ever going to be perfect and to expect such is just not feasible. But, as you've said, it's still too early and we won't know what good/bad moves will take place at this point until later. Edited March 23, 2022 by The Lock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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