Time to face the reality

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i've said i'm disappointed with this TDL.. the moves or lack of moves made.. so what are we? buyer or sellers?? are we retooling or pushing for the playoffs?? we want to get younger and faster so we claim richardson off waivers? honestly i see no value in dermott.. he was given up by a team that doesn't have defense.. and after the aquisition made by toronto.. there's a chance he might even end up on waivers. so giving up a 3rd is too much.. probably could have gotten him for even less. getting rid of a RHD and spending half the space gained on a LHD is mind boggling... 

 

as for the bigger moves that didn't happen? people keep saying more teams will be available as trade partners in the summer.. oh really? like who? what contending teams out there are going to be sitting on 5.5+ mil cap space in the middle of july waiting to make a trade for boeser or miller or myer or whomever else? rangers?? at this rate they'll probably re-sign strome. so whatever the original proposal 1st schnieder or not chytil kratsov etc etc.. are no longer in play.. if they re-sign strome their rfa and the rest of the roster.. where are they going to have the cap space without dumping us 5.5mil+ worth of cap dumps? same with every other teams that you think are in play.. we could have moved miller or boeser or whomever else this tdl with no consequence to our cap space heading into free agency.. but now we probably can't even do anything in free agency either.. coz we are capped out and any trade involving so and so players will be equal cap coming in going out. i doubt any team would hold off on their free agency plan to save cap space holding maybe the canucks would move one of their big names.

Get your disappointment.   But not making a decision to trade a blue chipper,  right now anyways, doesn't mean it's a bad thing (yet).    We should be a little more patient and see what unfolds at the draft and well, even the rest of this season.    I'm sure if an offer that was too hard to refuse for any of our guys Allvin would have pulled the trigger.   It obviously didn't happen.    Doesn't mean it won't later.    In the meantime why don't we just enjoy the rest of the season and see how things go.    What did occur - was 2.25ish in extra cap space and a 4th (after Mottes replacement), plus an additional .500-1 mill in salary for the raise he's likely to get.    One of the things JR said was we have cap issues.   That at least, got addressed a little bit without hurting our futures. 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, thrago said:

My problem with these guys is they don't seem to be doing anything, there's like 5 of them and Mottes agent last week is saying no we haven't talked contract yet.  When they asked Alvin if there was any progress with Boeser's contract he said he had talked to his agent but no no progress yet, followed by we are still evaluating the team.  Look if you used to be a scout and you've watched the team for 2 months and hockey is your chosen career path and you still need to evaluate the team your in the wrong business.  They need to have a solid plan in place for this summer and I just don't get the feeling they will. 

The team is kind of scizo, first they play crap under Green then play bad ass under BB.

It’s not easy to evaluate then. 

[King Heffy]

43 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Ok, I think Gillis was overhyped on here. But worst GM? Benning needed a cap person, and an assistant to stop him from spending on UFA's each summer. Because he painted himself into a corner trying to fill holes in the roster. Sadly Linden was the one that should have stayed, because he had the right idea. Building through the draft.

Neither was great in the role, but at least Benning cleaned up a fair amount of the mess left to him by the unqualified imbecile he replaced.

[wai_lai416]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Get your disappointment.   But not making a decision to trade a blue chipper,  right now anyways, doesn't mean it's a bad thing (yet).    We should be a little more patient and see what unfolds at the draft and well, even the rest of this season.    I'm sure if an offer that was too hard to refuse for any of our guys Allvin would have pulled the trigger.   It obviously didn't happen.    Doesn't mean it won't later.    In the meantime why don't we just enjoy the rest of the season and see how things go.    What did occur - was 2.25ish in extra cap space and a 4th (after Mottes replacement), plus an additional .500-1 mill in salary for the raise he's likely to get.    One of the things JR said was we have cap issues.   That at least, got addressed a little bit without hurting our futures. 

I see 0 cap space gained hamonic out 3.0mil dermott in 1.5mil did not move halak before he tanked another 1.25mil performance bonus next season so whatever space gained is all eaten up.. on top of now they need to find another rhd this off season. Whatever space u gained with Motte you'll have to replace him. So really we gained absolutely nothing in terms of cap space and unless something magical happens with the defense.. we are going to spend even more on it just to get a rhd to play in the top 4. Whether it's thru trades or free agency. Our defense next season will cost even more than this season unless u can find a taker for poolman and if we move Myers you'll need to find 2 top 4 defenseman and it'll still end up costing more than what we are paying now on defense 

[DrJockitch]

A good GM doesn’t box themselves in a corner forcing moves that are better off not getting made. 
We don’t know what kind offers were out there for our bigger pieces and if the better choice was to walk away and revisit after the season. 
Am I disappointed that we didn’t get to see what JR/PA’s stamp on the team looks like, yes.  Would I rather bad deals for the sake of getting deals, no. 
Motte went for the going rate for a depth piece. Would I have liked more yes, do I think trading him for the best return available was the right move, yes. 
The Hamonic trade was a great bit of GM’ing.  I don’t know about the Dermott deal but will keep my mind open as he is a depth D with upside on a cheap contract. Sounds like the sort of thing a team that is missing the playoffs might value.  Again I would have preferred cap space and a third but have an open mind and realize that if we get a year and a bit out of Dermott, that is better than most third rounders get. 

[Nucker 67]

This team isn't going to be fixed overnight.  Halak has been a big mistake bringing in, but he'll be gone after this season.  My guess is: other teams actually watched him this year and wanted nothing to do with him and their playoff run.  Can't really blame Allvin for that.  Richardson was brought in, because he's familiar with some of the players, he's a good faceoff guy, good team guy, veteran stability, and he's really cheap.

 

The Canucks are still pretty much intact to still make a run at a playoff spot. Wouldn't that be interesting if they actually snuck in. I see VGK and ANA both lost again.

 

The bigger moves will happen in the offseason, and at the Draft. Let's enjoy the rest of the season with these guys, cheer them on. If they get in - Great!  If they don't and get a decent Draft pick - Great!  Next year will be better.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by NUCKER67

[Oldmanpower]

36 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

The team is kind of scizo, first they play crap under Green then play bad ass under BB.

It’s not easy to evaluate then. 

Agree. A very hard season to evaluate for new management. Based on our new management’s record, if they were here for the start of the season we could very well be in a playoff position right now and our collective thoughts at the trade deadline would be much different. The big issue at hand is really our salary cap.

[Bure_of_94]

19 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Miller is gonna be 30 soon, and we'll be signing him for 9 million for 6 years. Didn't we make the "mistake" with Player Name?

In all honesty I think 9 million would be a hometown discount for an American with no ties here.  
  If he was to hit the open market this summer, there’d be a couple of teams offering him 10-11 on a 5/6 year deal. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

In all honesty I think 9 million would be a hometown discount for an American with no ties here.  
  If he was to hit the open market this summer, there’d be a couple of teams offering him 10-11 on a 5/6 year deal. 

If we go 8 x 8 (so north of 60 million) Miller would sure be tempted to take that, considering those offers might not be there from other teams in the summer of 2023.  If he was a D man, perhaps as a 30 year old UFA he could get more than 60.  But in this flat cap era is any team going to pay 60+ million for a 30 year old who isn't on their team?  Which decent and on the rise teams would even have that cap room?  

[Nucker 67]

I'm not convinced they'll re-sign Miller. Yes, he's their best player right now, but they also said they want to get younger, to build a young core that can win together. I don't believe this includes Miller, and maybe the return in his trade will be more good, young players to add to the VAN core.

 

I think they'll try to re-sign Boeser, but if he's wanting $7 or more, then he could also be traded. They might also trade one of Myers or OEL. I see them dumping cap and getting younger.

[Nucker 67]

After the Rangers get ousted in Round 1, they'll circle back to Miller in the offseason. Offer their 1st, Kravtsov and Lundkvist. 

[AV.]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Neither was great in the role, but at least Benning cleaned up a fair amount of the mess left to him by the unqualified imbecile he replaced.

No matter what the opinion is on Gillis and how his regime did, the fact remains that Benning made things exponentially worse.  The Canucks in 2014 were better off and in way less of a mess than the Canucks are in 2021/2022.  In fact, the mess is so bad, Benning will undoubtedly replace Milbury in the history books as the poster boy for the worst GM in modern NHL history.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

After the Rangers get ousted in Round 1, they'll circle back to Miller in the offseason. Offer their 1st, Kravtsov and Lundkvist. 

And we will say no.  that's not at all what we need.  Their first will be around 20.  Krapsoft is a bustaroo and Lundsquished is a smurf.

We will sign Miller to a long term deal.  Say bye bye to Garland as the only one of our elite guys.  Myers and Dickinson will be gone too.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, AV. said:

No matter what the opinion is on Gillis and how his regime did, the fact remains that Benning made things exponentially worse.  The Canucks in 2014 were better off and in way less of a mess than the Canucks are in 2021/2022.  In fact, the mess is so bad, Benning will undoubtedly replace Milbury in the history books as the poster boy for the worst GM in modern NHL history.

Our owner should have listened to Gillis' advice we needed to rebuild.  The whole 'retool' philosophy our owner believes in will not work. 

[AV.]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Our owner should have listened to Gillis' advice we needed to rebuild.  The whole 'retool' philosophy our owner believes in will not work. 

Indeed.  I can't say as to whether or not Gillis would have been the correct man to execute and lead a rebuild since his drafting (as we would learn in hindsight) was dross, but he had the right idea and correct philosophy.  He understood where the game was at and where it was headed, and knew that his team had shortcomings in that regard.

Edited March 22, 2022 by AV.

[awalk]

Benning and co had ~8 years until they had to face reality. I for one am willing to give this new group more than half a year before I make a call on how good or bad they are doing. 

[Dazzle]

15 minutes ago, AV. said:

No matter what the opinion is on Gillis and how his regime did, the fact remains that Benning made things exponentially worse.  The Canucks in 2014 were better off and in way less of a mess than the Canucks are in 2021/2022.  In fact, the mess is so bad, Benning will undoubtedly replace Milbury in the history books as the poster boy for the worst GM in modern NHL history.

This is pure hyperbole, and it's not even close to being true. Chia is closer to that status than Benning ever will be.

 

In order for Benning to actually classify as Milbury level, he would have to trade away players BEFORE they hit their prime with awful trades (i.e. Chara, Bertuzzi, Luongo). Even the worst Benning hater cannot come up with this.

[thrago]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

The team is kind of scizo, first they play crap under Green then play bad ass under BB.

It’s not easy to evaluate then. 

Well it's not that hard, really just go player by player and ask these questions.

 

1 what are this players strengths?

2 What are his weaknesses?

3 Is there room to grow?

4 Do the strengths outweigh the weaknesses?

5 Does this players contract add or subtract value from the team?

 

Pretty simple really

[RakuRaku]

Look, I never expected the team was gonna acquire pieces to help the playoff push or on the flip side sell off Boeser, Miller and Myers for top prospects... But at least do something to improve our compete level, size and grit!!  But based on the deals we did make, we are like just winging it rest of the season!! 

[Dazzle]

2 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

Look, I never expected the team was gonna acquire pieces to help the playoff push or on the flip side sell off Boeser, Miller and Myers for top prospects... But at least do something to improve our compete level, size and grit!!  But based on the deals we did make, we are like just winging it rest of the season!! 

That's exactly it. Anyone who votes this deadline to be a B are clearly not ready to analyze this situation because they're likely still recovering from their high after Benning got fired.