Next Up - Boeser -- Re-Sign or Trade

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

Someone stop me if I'm wrong.... but we have to wait until end of season to trade him, at which point he has no contract. So how can we even trade him?

Other option is we sign him, then we trade him.... but if we sign him to a reasonable contract then we would likely keep him...

 

So my understanding is either we lose him for nothing, or we sign him for cheap, or we sign him for his QO... am I missing something?.

Yes the team can take him to arbitration.  In this case his cap hit will likely be 85% of his QO.   6.25ish or a modest raise.  For one year only.   Brock has a lot to lose if he can't actually get back to where he was last season.   One more year like this one ... well he's going to be looking at a Pearson contract as a UFA...6.25 plus 3.25 x 3 ... is 10 million less of guaranteed money then a 5 x 5 deal more or less isn't it?   I think that he will sign a 4 year deal around what he's getting paid.   Or he will go to arbitration and then get traded for a bag of pucks. 

[BPA]

People are upset for his lacklustre play.  But Boeser is still a 20g 50pt player minimum.  What is that worth in the league right now?

I think around $6M aav

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

With Brock saying twice how much he wants to be a Canuck, it wouldn't surprise me if Allvin and his agent have had talks and they have a "hand-shake deal" of what he will sign for, which will be less than his QO. 

If they had a deal then why not announce it?  The cap would not apply to this year.  

Allvin said he had good talks with  other teams and that helped him guage what other teams thought of his players.  

Now Allvin is waying the value of Boeser at 6 mil to having that as cap space.  Might not even Qualify Brock.  Allvin and JR both said we need cap room

[DS4quality]

Boeser is young and has upside.

[thrago]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I don't get the sense thats the issue. If there's no urgency from Brock's agent, there isn't anything Allvin et al can do about it. 

I think there is, you let the agent know that they have a busy summer coming up and they need to know where they stand with Brock, if he still doesn't want to talk you start looking at the trade route and give permission to those teams to talk to the agent about new contracts.  They can't let these things drag out like they have been in the past, they have to get ahead of it either by being nice which where you start or by force if need be.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes the team can take him to arbitration.  In this case his cap hit will likely be 85% of his QO.   6.25ish or a modest raise.  For one year only.   Brock has a lot to lose if he can't actually get back to where he was last season.   One more year like this one ... well he's going to be looking at a Pearson contract as a UFA...6.25 plus 3.25 x 3 ... is 10 million less of guaranteed money then a 5 x 5 deal more or less isn't it?   I think that he will sign a 4 year deal around what he's getting paid.   Or he will go to arbitration and then get traded for a bag of pucks. 

Exactly this.  We will make an offer where Brock is paid longer term, but lesser cap than now.  Allvin will figure out at what number Brock is a value piece.  If Brock won't accpt that deal then I see a scenario where we simply let him walk.  

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

With Brock saying twice how much he wants to be a Canuck, it wouldn't surprise me if Allvin and his agent have had talks and they have a "hand-shake deal" of what he will sign for, which will be less than his QO. 

Lol.  I have a long memory.  The one Brocks agent tried bend JB over a desk and he said no thanks.    Back then we had Brock coming out as the next Brett Hull or even Tarasenko...he's not exactly barely earned his deal has he?  This time with a new GM and JR in the background ... he's going to have a lot of humility and a tail tucked between his legs because he hasn't earned it.    Not just because the cap didn't go up either. Not that he didn't try because i'm sure he did.  Last years Brock was the start of what we thought we might be getting.   This year?  Not a good look.   As far as handshakes go - Brock can sign for the next 8 years for 50$ if he wants too.   As soon as his agent goes QO then the team says FU see you in arbitration. 

 

Edit:  Brocks agent was asking for the moon on a long term deal last time.    

Edited March 22, 2022 by IBatch

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, thrago said:

I think there is, you let the agent know that they have a busy summer coming up and they need to know where they stand with Brock, if he still doesn't want to talk you start looking at the trade route and give permission to those teams to talk to the agent about new contracts.  They can't let these things drag out like they have been in the past, they have to get ahead of it either by being nice which where you start or by force if need be.

Its not all under Allvin's control tho. Lets say some teams are interested in Brock, isn't it to their advantage to have us squeezed into a corner too? 

 

I don't think anyone is sleeping on this file, but the timing isn't all up to our side. 

[JayDangles]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes the team can take him to arbitration.  In this case his cap hit will likely be 85% of his QO.   6.25ish or a modest raise.  For one year only.   Brock has a lot to lose if he can't actually get back to where he was last season.   One more year like this one ... well he's going to be looking at a Pearson contract as a UFA...6.25 plus 3.25 x 3 ... is 10 million less of guaranteed money then a 5 x 5 deal more or less isn't it?   I think that he will sign a 4 year deal around what he's getting paid.   Or he will go to arbitration and then get traded for a bag of pucks. 

excellent. Thanks for the breakdown. 

[Goal:thecup]

8 minutes ago, BPA said:

People are upset for his lacklustre play.  But Boeser is still a 20g 50pt player minimum.  What is that worth in the league right now?

I think around $6M aav

Is that for a good skating, somewhat physical 20/50 player or a poor skating, non-hitting player?

[Devron]

Haven’t been happy with Boesers play this year. That said he was arguably our best player last season. I want to see a contract around 6 million. He’s still a young player so I’d like to see what he brings next season then look at it from a future stand point. Keep him or trade him. Frankly I don’t think the return would be worth it at this point 

[mll]

18 minutes ago, BPA said:

I believe Canucks can walk away from the ruling but then Boeser immediately becomes UFA.

Can't walk away if it's a team elected arbitration.

 

If it's player elected, the team can walk away if the award is more than a certain amount (was ~4.5M last season).

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by mll

[Goal:thecup]

Just now, Devron said:

Haven’t been happy with Boesers play this year. That said he was arguably our best player last season. I want to see a contract around 6 million. He’s still a young player so I’d like to see what he brings next season then look at it from a future stand point. Keep him or trade him. Frankly I don’t think the return would be worth it at this point 

The past is full of weirdness with Covid et al.

Brock is definitely not our best player this season.

 

[Jester13]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If they had a deal then why not announce it?  The cap would not apply to this year.  

Allvin said he had good talks with  other teams and that helped him guage what other teams thought of his players.  

Now Allvin is waying the value of Boeser at 6 mil to having that as cap space.  Might not even Qualify Brock.  Allvin and JR both said we need cap room

The TDL was yesterday, so I would imagine PA & Co were quite busy with that on their plate. We might very well see a deal by season's end. I just don't see Brock playing hardball like last time with him coming out and saying how much he wants to be here. 

[thrago]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Its not all under Allvin's control tho. Lets say some teams are interested in Brock, isn't it to their advantage to have us squeezed into a corner too? 

 

I don't think anyone is sleeping on this file, but the timing isn't all up to our side. 

I don't think so if all that fails you take him to arbitration and trade him next summer, fortunately JT and Bo's contracts aren't due until then. I'm pretty sure we hold Brocks rights for 2 more years.  You can play hardball with Brock cause at the end of they day he doesn't really move the needle one way or the other, brock really doesn't hold any cards unless Management gives him some which they likely will which is a shame.

[Goal:thecup]

17 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

Boeser is young and has upside.

He is also expensive and has further downside.

[Fanuck]

9 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Is that for a good skating, somewhat physical 20/50 player or a poor skating, non-hitting player?

Like we say in the beer leagues,  nobody asks how you scored,  they only ask 'how many'

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Exactly this.  We will make an offer where Brock is paid longer term, but lesser cap than now.  Allvin will figure out at what number Brock is a value piece.  If Brock won't accpt that deal then I see a scenario where we simply let him walk.  

He will get us something back next TDL ... if we don't need him for our own push if we take him to arbitration that is.   I only see two scenarios.   One where he signs a long term deal of 4/5 years that is reasonable -  and that is in the 5-6 range around 25 total million ... or he's taken to arbitration.   In that case he's 100% betting on himself.   We need to stop worrying so much about Brock.   He's either going to end up on our team as part of our core or part of the support of our core like Garland, or he's going to put off for a year via arbitration.  In both cases he's also a tradeable asset.   50% retained next deadline at 6.25 will both gain us back some cap space and something else... personally i hope he signs for 4/5 years and breaks out still.  It's a win win. 

[IBatch]

3 minutes ago, thrago said:

I don't think so if all that fails you take him to arbitration and trade him next summer, fortunately JT and Bo's contracts aren't due until then. I'm pretty sure we hold Brocks rights for 2 more years.  You can play hardball with Brock cause at the end of they day he doesn't really move the needle one way or the other, brock really doesn't hold any cards unless Management gives him some which they likely will which is a shame.

One more year.  But still it's ok.   Brock either becomes what we hope he is - or we trade him next TDL ... 

Edited March 22, 2022 by IBatch

[Goal:thecup]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Like we say in the beer leagues,  nobody asks how you scored,  they only ask 'how many'

Yeah, but its been almost 40 years since I played in the beer leagues, and I could (no I couldn't) still score 20 with Miller and Petey et al setting me up like that.

I wonder, but not that much really lol, what the analytics crowd has to say about Brock's value.