Next Up - Boeser -- Re-Sign or Trade

[aqua59]

3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

How handcuffed are the Canucks with Boeser?  Not sure if this is close to accurate, but are the options:

 

- they can either re-sign him cheaper before the end of the season (?), or

- they have to pay him his QO of $7.5 next season

 

???

 

And if they pay him $7.5, he could be tough to trade if he continues to underperform.  If he can score 25-30 goals a season consistently, then it would seem a fair salary?  Mind you, it's been 3 years since Boeser scored 25+ goals. He's also never played close to a full season.

 

What to do with Brock

I don't think they are handcuffed at all with Boeser. He's just not worth what he gives them. fans overvalue boeser because they only see his scoring, 9which has been just ok for what he's getting paid.

 

He also has a draw for injuries so how many games do you get out of this guy when healthy. 

 

So how many games does the team really get out of Boeser for that price? 

 

Once again JBenning's ineptitude on player value were  exposed on this too, not just free agent signings.

 

Jim Benning simply paid too much to extend Boesers last contract. 

 

Time to move him because he's fattened out on development.

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, aqua59 said:

I don't think they are handcuffed at all with Boeser. He's just not worth what he gives them. fans overvalue boeser because they only see his scoring, 9which has been just ok for what he's getting paid.

 

He also has a draw for injuries so how many games do you get out of this guy when healthy. 

 

So how many games does the team really get out of Boeser for that price? 

 

Once again JBenning's ineptitude on player value were  exposed on this too, not just free agent signings.

 

Jim Benning simply paid too much to extend Boesers last contract. 

 

Time to move him because he's fattened out on development.

Yeah. Benning’s pro evaluation was/is terrible. Gave Brock too much. Not sure what his rationale was behind Boeser’s last contract that would set him up for a QO of 7.5M for his upcoming deal. Made little sense. 

 

Anyways, Benning’s gone. Thank God. 

 

Maybe Brock’s time is coming to an end as well in green and blue threads. 

 

Oh well. Better to get something in return for him before losing him for nothing. 

 

[iceman64]

16 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

......................don't forget the back-up goaltender needs!

Well going over some cap math but there's a big question actually, can Martin be consistent? Will Mikey D have anything to say about that? Pretty hard to say at this point, and we have another Podz in the mix as in Klim who is another question mark but has the potential to be simply a meaner version of Podz and maybe more skill but that's open for debate but both are potential 2nd line players but Klim would add more bite, speed, and scoring to 3rd line which we could certainly use if we're to go anywhere but that's most teams. Sadly Klim isn't a year older and experienced so it might take 2 years of NHL experience before being able to attempt a role like that if he can't crack 2nd line but is only scoring at .35 gpg in Abby but those goals were goal scorer's creative ones and others laser beam shots but this isn't the big euro rink where you have all day to pick your shot with lots of time so it's an adjustment, how long will it take for him to settle in and grow confidence like Podz is going through now? I wish I knew but probably another season in Abby and then see. Looking forward to it! I hope he makes it! I love the competitive side to him most of all

Edited April 17, 2022 by iceman64

[iceman64]

8 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. Benning’s pro evaluation was/is terrible. Gave Brock too much. Not sure what his rationale was behind Boeser’s last contract that would set him up for a QO of 7.5M for his upcoming deal. Made little sense. 

 

Anyways, Benning’s gone. Thank God. 

 

Maybe Brock’s time is coming to an end as well in green and blue threads. 

 

Oh well. Better to get something in return for him before losing him for nothing. 

 

Ummm before Boes hurt his wrist, and then his back, he knew he had to work on his D game but seems like he's leery about the rough spots but before his injuries he looked like money in the bank which was a league wide consensus so JB wasn't wrong especially our need for scoring at the time which was so bad that we were even looking for secondary scoring from the back end and then you know it's bad so if you thought it was a bad move at the time there would be a lot of people disagreeing with you especially with the shooting percentage he was carrying which would even out eventually as for anyone but a healthy Boeser would have been a lot better for us but if we can trade him to a team that needs what he brings and get a Dman in return, which would solve another problem for us but if he comes back and lights it up and we stand a good chance of getting a good dollar for him trade-wise. One can hope..

Edited April 17, 2022 by iceman64

[mll]

15 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Talk to the Wild , get him back home..

Let discussions between the Wild and Boeser take place about a contract.

If they can come to an agreement, I think the Wild and Vancouver would try to work out a package.

I don’t think Brock’s dad is doing to well,  could have a lot to do with where his head is, or wants to be.

 

edit: the Wilds 1st round pick is still available next year. (26th)

The Wild are in cap hell with their buyouts - they can't even retain Fiala who has even more EV points than Miller and a 5M QO.  Guerin has also repeatedly said he's not trading high picks/prospects - explained that with their 1st pick they could well get someone that will help them during their buyout years.

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, aqua59 said:

I don't think they are handcuffed at all with Boeser. He's just not worth what he gives them. fans overvalue boeser because they only see his scoring, 9which has been just ok for what he's getting paid.

 

He also has a draw for injuries so how many games do you get out of this guy when healthy. 

 

So how many games does the team really get out of Boeser for that price? 

 

Once again JBenning's ineptitude on player value were  exposed on this too, not just free agent signings.

 

Jim Benning simply paid too much to extend Boesers last contract. 

 

Time to move him because he's fattened out on development.

I'd love to go back into the Brock Boeser contract thread and see where you valued him at the time - if you contributed.   And all the other fans who've turned on him.    He's having a bad season.   It happens.   Agree his injuries are now a pattern 4/5 years and the one season he wasn't, it was shortened anyways.     Back when he signed his deal, it was within 100k of where the "experts" had a bridge deal.   JB didn't know covid was coming lol.   Neither did Wilson with Miers 10 million QO.     How many fans didn't like Brock back then?  And how many fans were drooling at what he could become as well.    Allvin won't sign him to anything more then a one year deal if he won't play ball on a 4-5 year deal that's in the 24-27 range.    Maybe that's a mistake as well.    Guess we will find out soon enough.     But as far as JB contract, again go back and look at the thread.    It was bang on fair.  

 

Edit:  So was Pearson's.   So was Horvats.   EP/QHs bridges look fine too.   Good grief.   Look around the league.    JB actually was decent with his re-signings.   What he wasn't good at was his UFAs and especially the timing of them. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by IBatch

[aqua59]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I'd love to go back into the Brock Boeser contract thread and see where you valued him at the time - if you contributed.   And all the other fans who've turned on him.    He's having a bad season.   It happens.   Agree his injuries are now a pattern 4/5 years and the one season he wasn't, it was shortened anyways.     Back when he signed his deal, it was within 100k of where the "experts" had a bridge deal.   JB didn't know covid was coming lol.   Neither did Wilson with Miers 10 million QO.     How many fans didn't like Brock back then?  And how many fans were drooling at what he could become as well.    Allvin won't sign him to anything more then a one year deal if he won't play ball on a 4-5 year deal that's in the 24-27 range.    Maybe that's a mistake as well.    Guess we will find out soon enough.     But as far as JB contract, again go back and look at the thread.    It was bang on fair.  

 

Edit:  So was Pearson's.   So was Horvats.   EP/QHs bridges look fine too.   Good grief.   Look around the league.    JB actually was decent with his re-signings.   What he wasn't good at was his UFAs and especially the timing of them. 

Look I'm a fan and what does it matter how i or you value him. His contract is over valued with the player.

 

Time has elapsed and he's not riding the high expectations at present. In fact he's been pedestrian at best. yet to hit 20 goal. He also gets injured. 

 

The JB was usless at free agent signings and you can stand up for him all you want. he had my backing in the beginning but his ineptitude over time had me cancel my support.

 

Allvin is far smarter than Benning ever will be at running a front office in the NHL. You have some serious selling to do to convince me otherwise.

 

As for Boeser, he's dropped behind his counterparts on the team this season. 

 

I'm just disagreeing with you. 

[aqua59]

14 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. Benning’s pro evaluation was/is terrible. Gave Brock too much. Not sure what his rationale was behind Boeser’s last contract that would set him up for a QO of 7.5M for his upcoming deal. Made little sense. 

 

Anyways, Benning’s gone. Thank God. 

 

Maybe Brock’s time is coming to an end as well in green and blue threads. 

 

Oh well. Better to get something in return for him before losing him for nothing. 

 

Another point you bring up, Benning losing players for nothing.

 

Certain areas are unforgiveable in the NHL business. 

[70seven]

If Colorado doesn’t win the cup, I think they’ll be all over Miller at the draft.  For the right dman coughbyramcough… That’s the kind of deal I think Van will consider. 

[Viper007]

Johansen and Duchene are a good example of what could happen.  Don't give up on Boeser just because of a bad season.  It may be a blessing in disguise that he has had a bad season, so that we can lower the AAV for his next contract.

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, 70seven said:

If Colorado doesn’t win the cup, I think they’ll be all over Miller at the draft.  For the right dman coughbyramcough… That’s the kind of deal I think Van will consider. 

Byram scares me because of his concussion issues. 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, aqua59 said:

Look I'm a fan and what does it matter how i or you value him. His contract is over valued with the player.

 

Time has elapsed and he's not riding the high expectations at present. In fact he's been pedestrian at best. yet to hit 20 goal. He also gets injured. 

 

The JB was usless at free agent signings and you can stand up for him all you want. he had my backing in the beginning but his ineptitude over time had me cancel my support.

 

Allvin is far smarter than Benning ever will be at running a front office in the NHL. You have some serious selling to do to convince me otherwise.

 

As for Boeser, he's dropped behind his counterparts on the team this season. 

 

I'm just disagreeing with you. 

UFA signings were bad we agree on that - especially the timing of them and spending to the cap to be "competitive" when we could of just been worse for a year or two.   It went from bad to worse with covid.   Brocks deal, at the time, seemed fair.   What he'd accomplished earned it too.    Also on those year or two ... well "8 long years" crowd can't chime in saying we should have been worse, and we can't complain that much watching Miller work towards a Hart nomination (if by some miracle we make the playoffs - not much different then what Hall did in NJ).    He won't win though, too many other guys killing it this year, unlike Halls heroics. 

 

 

Maybe we are lucky he didn't have the cap lol... well actually he did that season, he didn't like what Brocks camp wanted on a long term deal and went ahead and spent it somewhere else (and the fanbase went ape$&!# thinking there was none left for Brock lol).   Of the 3, he did sign the right guy to a long term deal in QHs. Folks also turned on EP this year and QHs last season - that's the part i'm not totally ok with.    It's a little sad that the cap world has taken away some of the fandom in the game.    Keller was awful in ARI too there are 100 other NHLers out there really we could pick on too ... not so much this season.   Ups and downs aren't uncommon with young players.   What Brock will be like in the future is anyones guess, for me he's earned his deal two out of 3 years that's it.   Buying UFA years might help us or might not.    Middle ground is around what he's making now (less preferably) for 4-5 years.    A calculated risk that he could return to last years form.   Best value is often found on the blue chippers in the 4-6 range.    Look what Garland got.   Nobodies complaining about that deal (yet anyways).    St. louis is and was loaded with guys in that range.   

 

What i think happens is rinse and repeat with the same lineup and Brock gets a one year deal - either his QO offer or maybe arbitration so a modest raise to 6.35.    But again anyones guess.   Mier at 10 looks pretty bad too doesn't it?   At least that loophole is taken care of.   Silly rule.    Creates inflation and problems for GMs later. 

[wai_lai416]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:18 AM, SilentSam said:

Funny how it’s a team game and your all over this players back.

im not trying to make excuses for what ever your problem is.

But if it’s about this one player,.  He is our best, usually night in and out.

Ill leave you with your problems.

lol coz it's the one player you have a man crush on about his leadership ability how he's the best player and leading by example every game blah blah blah yet you see him giving up on plays night in night out.. our other players might not be playing as great as Miller is but you don't see them giving up on a play as much as Miller have this season nor previous season.. Miller giving up on a play have led directly to 3 OT loss.. sure you can argue all you want we might have still lost the game.. but if miller didn't completely gives up on the play and we some how win 1 or 2 of the 3 losses we coulda been in a position to control our own destiny now wouldn't we? and that's not including games where it didn't lead directly to a lost... ask boudreau how he feels about Miller's leadership when he saw Miller coughs up the puck and dgaf watching the other team end the game in OT not once not twice but 3x.. and countless other times in the middle of a game. Our best player night in night out is Demko and it's not even close. stick any other goalie in there we'd prolly gives up more goals than arizona montreal.

 

funny it's a team's game and i'm sure you have singled out players over the years.. so don't give me this your problem crap

[HKSR]

Has anybody even heard of any trade destinations for Boeser?

 

I assume NJD would be in the mix... anybody else?

[shazzam]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

Has anybody even heard of any trade destinations for Boeser?

 

I assume NJD would be in the mix... anybody else?

I believe Friedman said it was them that wanted to talk to Brock before making a pitch for him. His QO is a problem

[JM_]

12 hours ago, shazzam said:

I believe Friedman said it was them that wanted to talk to Brock before making a pitch for him. His QO is a problem

if the season ends on the 29th, then I would guess that mgmt would take a few weeks to digest the season and decide on the path forward. I doubt we hear of a trade involving Brock before the draft, I suppose he could reach and extension before then but yeah, that QO. 

[mikeyman109]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:35 AM, aqua59 said:

Another point you bring up, Benning losing players for nothing.

 

Certain areas are unforgiveable in the NHL business. 

This might be the one situation where i would consider we lose the player for nothing. Salary cap is needed to improve the D. Without Brock we were scoring although I dont think we bring Chaisson back. Podz is developing nicely. Hoglander comes back healthy.

Teams are not going to offer us much knowing we dont want to sign Brock at his QO. so we would get a third or fourth round pick for him potentially. This could turn out to be an insignificant player anyways. Or we could be held hostage to pay Boeser 7 mill next season and lose him anyways.

What i am suggesting is we dont qualify Brock if we are not going to keep him in our group long term. I like what he has done the last couple games.Its certainly not an easy decision but if we lose Brocks 5.5 Mill salary we have enough to sign Miller to a long term deal and perhaps add more to sign a FA RHD. If i have the choice between Brock and Miller I sign Miller.

Top 6

Podz Miller Garland

Petey Horvat Pearson

Hoglander

I'm not saying its the best solution but its something to think about

 

[RU SERIOUS]

Here's some factual numbers I ran a few days ago during the Dallas game to put Brocks value into perspective for the BB kool-aid drinkers.   This is not an endorsement of Chiasson either - rather, just a comparison to show that Brock's goal value isn't even remotely close to a random, distant/borderline 4th liner on the team (in fact his goals cost almost 5 times what Chiasson's cost) and he only brings one thing to the table: Shooting,  because he offers little else other than that, as he can's skate, stickhandle, back-check, lacks creativity and is slow as mollases and he's losing his hair (yes, that's a joke).    So, he is of extremely poor "value".  If you were running a business and you had these factual results in front of you, I think you'd be quick to dispose of him too.  It makes no economic/strategic sense to keep him for the cost involved.

 

Chiasson: Salary: $  750,000/Yr     Goals:12      Price per Goal: $  62,500 

Boesser:  Salary: $5,875,000/Yr     Goals:20      Price per Goal: $293,750  (With 50% more Ice Time than Chiasson !)

 

If anyone try's to tell me Brock is going to be a steal with his upcoming $7.8 Million Dollar QH, I'll laugh myself silly!

 

PREDICTION: BROCK BOESER HAS 5 GAMES REMAINING WITH THIS FRANCHISE!

[alt kilgore]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:55 PM, aqua59 said:

I don't think they are handcuffed at all with Boeser. He's just not worth what he gives them. fans overvalue boeser because they only see his scoring, 9which has been just ok for what he's getting paid.

 

He also has a draw for injuries so how many games do you get out of this guy when healthy. 

 

So how many games does the team really get out of Boeser for that price? 

 

Once again JBenning's ineptitude on player value were  exposed on this too, not just free agent signings.

 

Jim Benning simply paid too much to extend Boesers last contract. 

 

Time to move him because he's fattened out on development.

 

Not just injury problems.  (But I often wonder if that hit into open door back-first in his first or second season? he has never fully recovered from.  He never looked the same after coming back from that)

 

But I don't put a lot of weight in how much past injury a player has had.  It could just be a string of bad luck. Look how Tanev has remained relatively healthy for the Flames since he left.

 

What's more important is how they are developing their game when they are healthy.  And from my own eye test, which y'all may not see the same, Brock seems to be regressing at the simple, "little things".   Taking a pass, Recovering a puck. Passing under pressure. Getting stick checked (protecting the puck). And lack of speed.  I'm not happy I have this opinion of Brock's play. I really really want to support him. He's so likeable.  But in the interests of the team, I think if we can get a good haul for him this summer, management should pull the trigger.  I just don't see him getting any faster, in regards to skating and coming away with the puck in a battle.  Just from my own observations.  

 

And I still would love him to remain a Canuck. Goal scorers do not grow on trees. Not all higher priced players have to be great 200 feet players. If they are pure snipers, like Brett Hull for example.  But even "the shot" has all but disappeared. After we got Miller, Miller replaced him on the side boards on the PP for the one timer.  All that said, its still hard to replace what he does still bring to the team. Its more about the cap hit at this point.

 

A comparable player for point production is Connor Garland who has an almost 5 million cap hit.   This season so far Garland, 26, is at 44 points and a +15.  Boeser, 25, is at 43 points and a -3.  Now Garland has played 6 more games than Boeser.  But even weighing that in, and the one year younger in age, how much more is Boeser worth over Garland?  5.5? Maybe 6 on account of the age difference?  I just can't justify anything over 6 million for a longer term deal. Anything more, he should be up on the block before other GMs start to notice those little things too.

[Guest]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:55 PM, aqua59 said:

Once again JBenning's ineptitude on player value were  exposed on this too, not just free agent signings.

 

Jim Benning simply paid too much to extend Boesers last contract. 

 

Time to move him because he's fattened out on development.

That gave me a good chuckle but on your point:  You are forgetting when this deal was signed.  

September of 2019, after the training camp had started.  So you need to take TWO factors in mind:  

 

1) Covid had not hit and people were predicting a salary cap closer to 100 million then what it is now by the time that Brock's contract was up.  

 

2) Brock and his agent had held out through training camp and were risking missing the opening of the season.  

 

If you want to see a uniformly positive reaction to a signing, just go here and take a gander.  I don't mean to bring up anyone's comments in particular.  I've been wrong on many things, but it's simply a fact that almost everyone loved his contract when it was signed.