Changing how the Canucks are Perceived

[whcanuck]

I think we can all agree, especially for those of us who’ve been cheering for this team for 15-20+ years, that management has it right on the money when they keep referring to a “culture change” being needed in Vancouver.

 

If you look at the history of this franchise, especially the past 20 years or so, it’s a lot of “we were in full control, and then completely collapsed/melted down when we needed to seal the deal.” 2002 against the Wings, take 2 in Motown and then lose 4 in a row, looking very very bad in the process. 2003 against Minnesota? Same deal, up 3-1 and just completely go off the rails and lose in 7. 2011, we were unbelievably lucky to get past Chicago, since we were one Patrick Sharp shot away from the biggest collapse in franchise history, and for this team, that’s saying something. But then of course, we more than made up for it with one of the ugliest collapses in Stanley Cup history against Boston later that spring.

 

Im honestly asking, is it the type of players being brought in here? Do the fans and media suffocate these guys with pressure and they can’t focus or perform when the chips are down? How do we make this a franchise that stops being a victim, stops choking and caving when it matters, and embraces these challenges? I want to see players that want to run (or skate) TOWARD the pressure, that embrace it, and WANT to win a Stanley Cup here. Players who aren’t afraid of blowing it, but think “the heat’s been turned up?? That’s just the way we like it!”

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, whcanuck said:

I think we can all agree, especially for those of us who’ve been cheering for this team for 15-20+ years, that management has it right on the money when they keep referring to a “culture change” being needed in Vancouver.

 

If you look at the history of this franchise, especially the past 20 years or so, it’s a lot of “we were in full control, and then completely collapsed/melted down when we needed to seal the deal.” 2002 against the Wings, take 2 in Motown and then lose 4 in a row, looking very very bad in the process. 2003 against Minnesota? Same deal, up 3-1 and just completely go off the rails and lose in 7. 2011, we were unbelievably lucky to get past Chicago, since we were one Patrick Sharp shot away from the biggest collapse in franchise history, and for this team, that’s saying something. But then of course, we more than made up for it with one of the ugliest collapses in Stanley Cup history against Boston later that spring.

 

Im honestly asking, is it the type of players being brought in here? Do the fans and media suffocate these guys with pressure and they can’t focus or perform when the chips are down? How do we make this a franchise that stops being a victim, stops choking and caving when it matters, and embraces these challenges? I want to see players that want to run (or skate) TOWARD the pressure, that embrace it, and WANT to win a Stanley Cup here. Players who aren’t afraid of blowing it, but think “the heat’s been turned up?? That’s just the way we like it!”

We saw our three young stars play even better while in the bubble.  Hughes set the rookie record for scoring for D.  Petey was more than a ppg guy, while being super good definsively.  And Demko was brilliant.  We have the "winners" in those three young guys.  We will build around them and win Cups. 

Be thankful we don't have losers, who do worse under playoff pressure, like Mackinnon, Makar, Big Leon, McWhiner, Tavares, Mini Me Marner, and Pants Down Auston. 

[Dazzle]

Pressure exists in every sports market. Look at Toronto/Montreal, but more specifically Toronto. We see how they have 'collapsed' over the years, going no further than the first round, regardless of their perceived rankings, or their stats.

 

This fanbase, in particular, is pretty fickle. After many seasons of success from the 2000s to the early 2010s, we see a dramatic decrease in attendance from the fanbase, especially when the team hasn't been doing well. Contrast that to Toronto which has a very loyal fanbase. It used to be that the Canucks had a "goalie graveyard", and now it's flourishing, even in a hot market that traditionally blamed goalies for everything.

 

I think we can all agree that this fanbase is both good and bad. We see happy fans after wins, and pessimism (usually coming from those 'fans' that only appear after losses) after losses. The emotional rollercoaster is part of the charm of this team, for better or worse.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dazzle

[whcanuck]

I want to kind of add to my original post, historically the Canucks seem to have a mountain of difficulty with physical, hard-working opponents. We’ve had skill here, the current team has some pretty darn good players on it, but fast, physical, hard-working teams have absolutely tortured the Canucks throughout the past several years

Edited March 30, 2022 by whcanuck

[Heretic]

21 minutes ago, whcanuck said:

 

 

Im honestly asking, is it the type of players being brought in here? 

Not the type, it's the amount they are getting paid - some of them their salaries are inflated (paid more than they are worth) which impacts the ability of management to build a complete team - IE, our bottom 6.  Without that, we will be doomed to fail over and over and over again.

[Nucker 67]

I think previous regimes rushed prospects into the lineup, to try and make playoffs and appease the owners. 

 

I'm really glad the Canucks finally seem to have the right president of hockey ops, and a team of (4) GMs/AGMs, who want to build up the prospect pool and have young players developing together. Also, looking at the college and euro leagues. I'm glad hey brought in Rachel Doerrie to look at analytics. I believe this new management team will make smart decisions. And I'm also glad that JR and Co. have the autonomy to do the work, without the owners meddling. 

 

As for the roster, Miller seems to have given the Canucks an identity, I guess? A team that won't quit?

 

Horvat - too quiet, boring in fact

Pettersson - too quiet, shy, lanky and easy to punish

Boeser - shooter who doesn't shoot enough, and fairly slow. I don't understand the shoulder shrug after every whistle

Hughes - quiet, but has fun and performs, makes opponents look silly with his amazing skating

Schenn - toughness, fighter, veteran leadership - a keeper even though he's fairly slow

OEL - gritty and courageous, veteran leadership (even though he shouldn't get into fights)

Myers - "I'm big, but don't worry, I wont fight". The penalty box is his second home.

Garland - like a pinball, he just bounces off things

Hoglander - Whoa little buddy, slow down and make the right play for a change

Demko - Mr. Cool, best player on the team

 

IMO the Canucks need to get bigger, faster and tougher.  It's too bad Virtanen and Tryamkin never turned out. 

[whcanuck]

6 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think previous regimes rushed prospects into the lineup, to try and make playoffs and appease the owners. 

 

I'm really glad the Canucks finally seem to have the right president of hockey ops, and a team of (4) GMs/AGMs, who want to build up the prospect pool and have young players developing together. Also, looking at the college and euro leagues. I'm glad hey brought in Rachel Doerrie to look at analytics. I believe this new management team will make smart decisions. And I'm also glad that JR and Co. have the autonomy to do the work, without the owners meddling. 

 

As for the roster, Miller seems to have given the Canucks an identity, I guess? A team that won't quit?

 

Horvat - too quiet, boring in fact

Pettersson - too quiet, shy, lanky and easy to punish

Boeser - shooter who doesn't shoot enough, and fairly slow. I don't understand the shoulder shrug after every whistle

Hughes - quiet, but has fun and performs, makes opponents look silly with his amazing skating

Schenn - toughness, fighter, veteran leadership - a keeper even though he's fairly slow

OEL - gritty and courageous, veteran leadership (even though he shouldn't get into fights)

Myers - "I'm big, but don't worry, I wont fight". The penalty box is his second home.

Garland - like a pinball, he just bounces off things

Hoglander - Whoa little buddy, slow down and make the right play for a change

Demko - Mr. Cool, best player on the team

 

IMO the Canucks need to get bigger, faster and tougher.  It's too bad Virtanen and Tryamkin never turned out. 

You should present this to management as a formal player evaluation haha, this is bullseye accurate!

[Fred65]

Looking for players is not as simple as it seems IMO**. Players want to win especially the SC. When they're FA's that's what they're looking for, winners. If they're good enough they'll get the money no matter where. Vcr of late is not an attractive  place to fill those dreams. When Gillis first arrived he addressed this subject openly. He also felt that Vcr was not  treated well by the NHL. He did every thing within his powers to chnage that and for the most part succeeded. He did what ever he could , new dressing room, chefs to provide quality meals for players on game and off days, bought an AHL franchise, he wanted to make the club a go to choice. Then came  the Torts era and the meddling and that brought an end to that. JB I get the impression was a yes man to FA. I think before Rutherford ageed to come here he''s made it perfectly clear he makes all hockey decissions. That alone should help. It should be upward andd onward from here forward. Thiis is a case of in Rutherford we trust. In the immediate moment the salary structure needs to be addressed, it's a mess, but that clearly takes time. I'm expectinng some action this summer. **I suspect all fans have their ideas of what the on ice product should look like but you don't always get what you want as your mother would say 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Fred65

[Sativika]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Pressure exists in every sports market. Look at Toronto/Montreal, but more specifically Toronto. We see how they have 'collapsed' over the years, going no further than the first round, regardless of their perceived rankings, or their stats.

 

This fanbase, in particular, is pretty fickle. After many seasons of success from the 2000s to the early 2010s, we see a dramatic decrease in attendance from the fanbase, especially when the team hasn't been doing well. Contrast that to Toronto which has a very loyal fanbase. It used to be that the Canucks had a "goalie graveyard", and now it's flourishing, even in a hot market that traditionally blamed goalies for everything.

 

I think we can all agree that this fanbase is both good and bad. We see happy fans after wins, and pessimism (usually coming from those 'fans' that only appear after losses) after losses. The emotional rollercoaster is part of the charm of this team, for better or worse.

Indeed...."The mob is fickle, brother. He'll be forgotten in a month. Replace "He'll" with "They'll...." This can be said about any fanbase, for any team, in any league. Pretty much any fanbase that's passionate, as we are with hockey, and Euros with soccer. 

 

I dunno. I  don't think we had a problem with team identity a decade or so ago. Nor did we have identity issues in the mid '90s. Mid '90s was all about heart and soul. Sedin era was all about talent, PP....both had toughness and both had great goalies. Early '80s Im not too sure of. Definitely hard work and heart. 

 

This year, needless to say....Our team has a huge mountain to climb to get in the show. The impetus to do so is on us.

 

It seems a recurring theme for most eras of our Canucks is to have their playoff destiny's determined by the outcome of other teams in the fold. They could write their own destiny by winning games they gotta , or should win, but more often than not that doesn't happen. Is this their culture?!?!?!?!? A team that, if they get in, anything can happen in the playoffs!

[erkayloomeh]

2 hours ago, whcanuck said:

I think we can all agree, especially for those of us who’ve been cheering for this team for 15-20+ years, that management has it right on the money when they keep referring to a “culture change” being needed in Vancouver.

 

If you look at the history of this franchise, especially the past 20 years or so, it’s a lot of “we were in full control, and then completely collapsed/melted down when we needed to seal the deal.” 2002 against the Wings, take 2 in Motown and then lose 4 in a row, looking very very bad in the process. 2003 against Minnesota? Same deal, up 3-1 and just completely go off the rails and lose in 7. 2011, we were unbelievably lucky to get past Chicago, since we were one Patrick Sharp shot away from the biggest collapse in franchise history, and for this team, that’s saying something. But then of course, we more than made up for it with one of the ugliest collapses in Stanley Cup history against Boston later that spring.

 

Im honestly asking, is it the type of players being brought in here? Do the fans and media suffocate these guys with pressure and they can’t focus or perform when the chips are down? How do we make this a franchise that stops being a victim, stops choking and caving when it matters, and embraces these challenges? I want to see players that want to run (or skate) TOWARD the pressure, that embrace it, and WANT to win a Stanley Cup here. Players who aren’t afraid of blowing it, but think “the heat’s been turned up?? That’s just the way we like it!”

The almost loss to Chicago in the first round is directly related to the finals loss against the bruins. A mentally tough hockey team doesn't almost blow a 3 -0 lead in the scp . Without those 3 extra grueling games we would have beat Boston.

 

I've been saying it for a while now that we are to nice.  People here hate on guys like mathew Tkachuk but we need some of that. 

No more happy go lucky Boesers and I'm your pinball Garlands.  We need some physically and mentally tough players. 

Wayyyyy to nice  

 

[Dazzle]

4 minutes ago, erkayloomeh said:

The almost loss to Chicago in the first round is directly related to the finals loss against the bruins. A mentally tough hockey team doesn't almost blow a 3 -0 lead in the scp . Without those 3 extra grueling games we would have beat Boston.

 

I've been saying it for a while now that we are to nice.  People here hate on guys like mathew Tkachuk but we need some of that. 

No more happy go lucky Boesers and I'm your pinball Garlands.  We need some physically and mentally tough players. 

Wayyyyy to nice  

 

I guess Vegas was 'mentally weak' then, according to your logic...

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dazzle

[Canucklehead73]

For me one of the biggest thing missed when trying to break down what went wrong with your team, looking to assign blame and or reasoning/excuses for failure.

 

That thing is the other team... It's always a fine line when you are deep in the playoffs, more often than not the other team is simply better in that moment

[Xanlet]

Just now, Canucklehead73 said:

For me one of the biggest thing missed when trying to break down what went wrong with your team, looking to assign blame and or reasoning/excuses for failure.

 

That thing is the other team... It's always a fine line when you are deep in the playoffs, more often than not the other team is simply better in that moment

Or the director of hockey operations has a son on the other team leading to the longest suspension in Stanley Cup finals history for us while their player gets away with breaking someone's back no where near the puck.

[erkayloomeh]

34 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I guess Vegas was 'mentally weak' then, according to your logic...

Which series are you referring to.

How do you attribute almost losing a 3  0 series in the scp.?

I call it taking your foot off the gas because you think you've already won. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by erkayloomeh

[Devron]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

We saw our three young stars play even better while in the bubble.  Hughes set the rookie record for scoring for D.  Petey was more than a ppg guy, while being super good definsively.  And Demko was brilliant.  We have the "winners" in those three young guys.  We will build around them and win Cups. 

Be thankful we don't have losers, who do worse under playoff pressure, like Mackinnon, Makar, Big Leon, McWhiner, Tavares, Mini Me Marner, and Pants Down Auston. 

You are forgetting Horvat who almost led the playoff in goals while not even playing in the conference final. Bo brings it when it matters most. He’s scoring almost every night down the stretch here. Some poster called him boring. Bo has the most passionate celly’s on the team. He scores big goals. Boring lol

[Bure2Win]

Simple as fixing the DEFENCE !

[The Lock]

The problem is, everyone talks about culture change. That's great that we want to talk about culture change, but is that really going to happen? Even in this thread, we're seeing all kinds of post and this is only 1 page so far roughly. Everyone thing they know "the answer" to solve our problems, whether it's toughness, defense, or whatever else. There is almost always a player that becomes a punching bag.

 

Vancouver, whether we want to believe it or not, is a hostile environment for players, especially compared with teams down south. Perhaps this is because we have no cup so far. Perhaps it's for other reasons. I do however wonder if there's a correlation between the mentality of playerbases and the teams actually being able to win a cup. What made Chicago different to us a decade ago? How rabid is that fanbase compared with us?

 

These are mostly just questions at this point of course to which I'm perhaps even on the fence with. If it is the fanbase, I don't know if it's something we can simply change.

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think previous regimes rushed prospects into the lineup, to try and make playoffs and appease the owners. 

 

I'm really glad the Canucks finally seem to have the right president of hockey ops, and a team of (4) GMs/AGMs, who want to build up the prospect pool and have young players developing together. Also, looking at the college and euro leagues. I'm glad hey brought in Rachel Doerrie to look at analytics. I believe this new management team will make smart decisions. And I'm also glad that JR and Co. have the autonomy to do the work, without the owners meddling. 

 

As for the roster, Miller seems to have given the Canucks an identity, I guess? A team that won't quit?

 

Horvat - too quiet, boring in fact

Pettersson - too quiet, shy, lanky and easy to punish

Boeser - shooter who doesn't shoot enough, and fairly slow. I don't understand the shoulder shrug after every whistle

Hughes - quiet, but has fun and performs, makes opponents look silly with his amazing skating

Schenn - toughness, fighter, veteran leadership - a keeper even though he's fairly slow

OEL - gritty and courageous, veteran leadership (even though he shouldn't get into fights)

Myers - "I'm big, but don't worry, I wont fight". The penalty box is his second home.

Garland - like a pinball, he just bounces off things

Hoglander - Whoa little buddy, slow down and make the right play for a change

Demko - Mr. Cool, best player on the team

 

IMO the Canucks need to get bigger, faster and tougher.  It's too bad Virtanen and Tryamkin never turned out. 

 

I don't even know what an identity of a team is anymore.

I just think you simply need to have a good, consistent cohesive unit with enough elite players to make your team be able to compete on a nightly basis and contend as one of the teams in the top half of the standings. 

 

For instance, if you were to ask me what the identity of the flames were... I wouldn't be able to pinpoint a specific identity to them.

They are just well coached, have a solid defence. Pretty great offence and a franchise goaltender. 

But that's just my rambling.. 

 

I like your assessment of some of the players and here's my two cents on a few:

 

Horvat:

I agree. Not saying the Sedins were the most charismatic leaders but they sort of had a calming vibe about them and their leadership style fit the team well. 

Horvat just seems a little passive at times and like you said, he's not a really vocal guy. He's a workhorse though.

 

Boeser:

Fell off hard. A far-cry from his rookie campaign. He has no speed and his shot isn't even as good as it once was. In that first year, he seemed to be able to shoot so accurately almost every time. Now, his shot isn't nearly as lethal.

 

Hughes:

My favorite player to watch. I think he's the most entertaining Canuck and IMO he's the most valuable Canuck. Players like Hughes that can skate as well as he does and possess all the abilities that he has is extremely hard to come by. I think we've been a little spoiled these past few years with him on the team and forgot how unexciting our defence was before he was drafted. 

 

Demko:

Reminds me a lot of Schneider when he played for us. 

[Viper007]

2 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

The almost loss to Chicago in the first round is directly related to the finals loss against the bruins. A mentally tough hockey team doesn't almost blow a 3 -0 lead in the scp . Without those 3 extra grueling games we would have beat Boston.

 

I've been saying it for a while now that we are to nice.  People here hate on guys like mathew Tkachuk but we need some of that. 

No more happy go lucky Boesers and I'm your pinball Garlands.  We need some physically and mentally tough players. 

Wayyyyy to nice  

 

What has Matthew Tkachuk done for Calgary in the playoffs? 

[erkayloomeh]

47 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

What has Matthew Tkachuk done for Calgary in the playoffs? 

Well the rest of the team sucks