Rutherford interview on Donnie & Dhali

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, aGENT said:

You sure like to get wrong things in your head and repeat then ad nauseum don't you?

 

Woo hasn't been converted to wing. Rutherford never said step back for two years, he said he hopes to make the team a contender in 2+ years. The plan was never to "tank" for those two years. He was always planning on keeping the team competitive in that time frame.

we just don't have enough info to panic over steps back, or forward. I'd love to see this list of whats been offered (or not) for all our players that would clarify things a lot. 

 

We maybe know a little bit, assuming the Chytil, Lundkvist, 1st offer was real, e.g. I'm glad they passed on that one, that is in the step back and hope model. Schneider tho might be a different animal, as it does look now like he could step into a 3rd pair role. 

 

We don't know how willing Miller is to take a slightly team friendly deal. We don't know who may want Garland.

 

We're just missing too much info to suggest we know what Aqulini has told Rutherford, if anything. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by JM_

[Mustard Tiger]

36 minutes ago, Alflives said:

JR did change his “direction”.  When he arrived he stated step back for two years.  Now he’s saying not step back.  

Clear change of what he will do.  The first one brings in younger players (prospects/picks) who will develop with that core you mention is in place.  Then, in two years, we have a team that will be a consistent winner over the long term.

The second direction is bringing in players who are developed and ready to support the core now.  These guys are older than in step one, so the winning is hoped for now, and the window (logically, because these support players are older) will be shorter. 

Two different directions.  

For someone who just lays into people about believing lies and dumb theories.. this is quite ironic 

[aGENT]

26 minutes ago, JM_ said:

we just don't have enough info to panic over steps back, or forward. I'd love to see this list of whats been offered (or not) for all our players that would clarify things a lot. 

 

We maybe know a little bit, assuming the Chytil, Lundkvist, 1st offer was real, e.g. I'm glad they passed on that one, that is in the step back and hope model. Schneider tho might be a different animal, as it does look now like he could step into a 3rd pair role. 

 

We don't know how willing Miller is to take a slightly team friendly deal. We don't know who may want Garland.

 

We're just missing too much info to suggest we know what Aqulini has told Rutherford, if anything. 

We don't have info on specifics but we have plenty of info on the general game plan.

 

Despite your constant fears of moving Miller = rebuild, that's clearly not what's going to happen, if you actually listen to Rutherford and co.

 

Regardless of what they do specifically, management clearly, fully intends to make moves to remain competitive next season and continue to build and improve the team over the next 2+ years. It will be fun to see what those moves actually end up being, but that's clearly the plan. There's very little mystery IMO.

Edited May 29, 2022 by aGENT

[Ballisticsports.]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

we just don't have enough info to panic over steps back, or forward. I'd love to see this list of whats been offered (or not) for all our players that would clarify things a lot. 

 

We maybe know a little bit, assuming the Chytil, Lundkvist, 1st offer was real, e.g. I'm glad they passed on that one, that is in the step back and hope model. Schneider tho might be a different animal, as it does look now like he could step into a 3rd pair role. 

 

We don't know how willing Miller is to take a slightly team friendly deal. We don't know who may want Garland.

 

We're just missing too much info to suggest we know what Aqulini has told Rutherford, if anything. 

I agree, but when Canucks have not made the playoffs, it is hard to take a step back (as they never took that step forward to begin with), so nothing is a step back from there

It is more or less re-arranging the way to build within a cap strapped team that needs to untangle the situation with suitable teams that want your assets and your assets agree to be moved (if they have restrictions)

The Canucks would be a better team next year  (with JTM on it with no argument from most), it will come down to what it will cost to extend him, because at the wrong dollar figure or term length it will hurt them long term or they will be moved, but that goes for ALL players (not just JTM) 

 

I am just so glad that it appears the days of just letting players walk out the door for nothing are over, 

I just don't believe this management team will let themselves go into a full season with expiring contracts as a distraction, knowing you can't get to the playoffs with these players and then just lose them for nothing in return - They will find out if the player is in the future of the Canucks, It will be resolved before the start of the season on which players want to stay and what we can afford (not just day to day, but for now and the future)

[Gawdzukes]

33 minutes ago, aGENT said:

You sure like to get wrong things in your head and repeat then ad nauseum don't you?

 

Woo hasn't been converted to wing. Rutherford never said step back for two years, he said he hopes to make the team a contender in 2+ years. The plan was never to "tank" for those two years. He was always planning on keeping the team competitive in that time frame.

My dad does this all the time ... well the state weirdly wrong ideas part on purpose. I think it's some old guy trick ... except they themselves are the only one's they are tricking.  One thing I'm certain of is Aquilini is not running the team so I hope that one stops soon. It's just a silly stance. Like @JM_ said we don't have enough info to judge so we'll just have to wait and see what our direction is. It would be stupid for them to lay out their whole game plan exactly for all to see.

 

I swear, I'm getting so tired of people posting random tweets and trying to project them onto other topics like this. Like one guy posted the Nashville president says they weren't repeating 2017-2018 and that somehow means they are not allowed to trade for Miller, or in no way, shape, or form, would they ever possibly decide, or want to trade for him.

[NucknAsia]

29 minutes ago, JM_ said:

we just don't have enough info to panic over steps back, or forward. I'd love to see this list of whats been offered (or not) for all our players that would clarify things a lot. 

 

We maybe know a little bit, assuming the Chytil, Lundkvist, 1st offer was real, e.g. I'm glad they passed on that one, that is in the step back and hope model. Schneider tho might be a different animal, as it does look now like he could step into a 3rd pair role. 

 

We don't know how willing Miller is to take a slightly team friendly deal. We don't know who may want Garland.

 

We're just missing too much info to suggest we know what Aqulini has told Rutherford, if anything. 

There are alot of factors going into moving Miller as you are implying.

 

First, it comes down to what does Miller want $ and term wise and does that fit into the Canucks long term plan. If not, simple, he gets moved. We will know that probably before that draft.

 

Second, who's interested and what are they willing to offer. What we know, is apparently the deal you mentioned was on the table. Is that deal or a similar deal available at the draft? My guess is given the playoffs, there will be more teams interested. Florida can't be happy with their performance, Pittsburgh rumours of Malkin maybe moving on, Toronto, always needs, Boston definitely would want him (Bergeron my retire, doubt it, but they don't even have  a legit 2c and are not in a tear it down stage, they still want to compete for a cup with that group), Colorado depending on what happens with Kadri (who is likely to move on), so many teams will be interested in Miller.

 

Third, based on what's on offer and balanced against, what Miller wants, we may move him before the draft (assuming it doesn't work in our financial plan), at the deadline, or maybe simply because someone blows us out of the water with an offer.

I love Miller, he's my favorite Canuck, as he embodies the same passion of players like Smyl, Linden, Bert, Kesler, Burrows, guys who really cared for this team so its hard for me to say this. but we should move him.

 

If Management does their job correctly, they should create a bidding war for him. We look at the NYR deal and say not enough, but management's job is then to create a market that get's enough.

 

With a player like Miller we can not and should not be a price taker, rather a price maker and even an  average GM should be able to create pricing tension for that asset (given he has no NTC/NMC, is on a dirt cheap contract, and his production and intangibles make him highly sought after). We have a Lambo, and if you can't sell a Lambo for the price of a Lambo, but rather the price of Jaguar, you have a problem.

 

TBH if Alvin fails here I will not be impressed. Basically, this trade that needs to happen, either jumps us forward years, or sets us back into JB pergatory. Alvin has a very important summer ahead. 

 

[JM_]

25 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We don't have info on specifics but we have plenty of info on the general game plan.

 

Despite your constant fears of moving Miller = rebuild, that's clearly not what's going to happen, if you actually listen to Rutherford and co.

 

Regardless of what they do specifically, management clearly, fully intends to make moves to remain competitive next season and continue to build and improve the team over the next 2+ years. It will be fun to see what those moves actually end up being, but that's clearly the plan. There's very little mystery IMO.

I'm a lot less worried the more I hear from JR. 

 

I don't want Miller at any price, I'd actually be worried if we signed him for 9+. If something reasonable (high 7's, maybe low 8 depending on terms) isn't on the table then of course we have to move him. 

[JM_]

23 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I agree, but when Canucks have not made the playoffs, it is hard to take a step back (as they never took that step forward to begin with), so nothing is a step back from there

It is more or less re-arranging the way to build within a cap strapped team that needs to untangle the situation with suitable teams that want your assets and your assets agree to be moved (if they have restrictions)

The Canucks would be a better team next year  (with JTM on it with no argument from most), it will come down to what it will cost to extend him, because at the wrong dollar figure or term length it will hurt them long term or they will be moved, but that goes for ALL players (not just JTM) 

 

I am just so glad that it appears the days of just letting players walk out the door for nothing are over, 

I just don't believe this management team will let themselves go into a full season with expiring contracts as a distraction, knowing you can't get to the playoffs with these players and then just lose them for nothing in return - They will find out if the player is in the future of the Canucks, It will be resolved before the start of the season on which players want to stay and what we can afford (not just day to day, but for now and the future)

the "untangle" comments are pretty interesting, I don't know how he's going to do that tbh. 

[JM_]

20 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

There are alot of factors going into moving Miller as you are implying.

 

First, it comes down to what does Miller want $ and term wise and does that fit into the Canucks long term plan. If not, simple, he gets moved. We will know that probably before that draft.

 

Second, who's interested and what are they willing to offer. What we know, is apparently the deal you mentioned was on the table. Is that deal or a similar deal available at the draft? My guess is given the playoffs, there will be more teams interested. Florida can't be happy with their performance, Pittsburgh rumours of Malkin maybe moving on, Toronto, always needs, Boston definitely would want him (Bergeron my retire, doubt it, but they don't even have  a legit 2c and are not in a tear it down stage, they still want to compete for a cup with that group), Colorado depending on what happens with Kadri (who is likely to move on), so many teams will be interested in Miller.

 

Third, based on what's on offer and balanced against, what Miller wants, we may move him before the draft (assuming it doesn't work in our financial plan), at the deadline, or maybe simply because someone blows us out of the water with an offer.

I love Miller, he's my favorite Canuck, as he embodies the same passion of players like Smyl, Linden, Bert, Kesler, Burrows, guys who really cared for this team so its hard for me to say this. but we should move him.

 

If Management does their job correctly, they should create a bidding war for him. We look at the NYR deal and say not enough, but management's job is then to create a market that get's enough.

 

With a player like Miller we can not and should not be a price taker, rather a price maker and even an  average GM should be able to create pricing tension for that asset (given he has no NTC/NMC, is on a dirt cheap contract, and his production and intangibles make him highly sought after). We have a Lambo, and if you can't sell a Lambo for the price of a Lambo, but rather the price of Jaguar, you have a problem.

 

TBH if Alvin fails here I will not be impressed. Basically, this trade that needs to happen, either jumps us forward years, or sets us back into JB pergatory. Alvin has a very important summer ahead. 

 

the only part of this I'd disagree with is in JR being the one to create a market, you can only do so much from our side and I can't fault JR for only getting lowball offers if thats all that come our way.

 

The NHL isn't a normal market situation, not sure the usual rules apply. 

 

But having said that, you'd think there would be a ton of interest in a 99 pt player possibly coming in at 2.65 million next year. 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by JM_

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

You sure like to get wrong things in your head and repeat then ad nauseum don't you?

 

Woo hasn't been converted to wing. Rutherford never said step back for two years, he said he hopes to make the team a contender in 2+ years. The plan was never to "tank" for those two years. He was always planning on keeping the team competitive in that time frame.

And who set that direction:  JR or our owner?  

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And who set that direction:  JR or our owner?  

 

Clearly the advanced in age, Hall of Fame manager with plenty of money and the mile long, resume is merely a puppet for Frank, the evil master mind.

 

He should just grow a long mustache to maniacally twirl ,to make it easier for us idiots to spot it Alf.

[Alflives]

43 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We don't have info on specifics but we have plenty of info on the general game plan.

 

Despite your constant fears of moving Miller = rebuild, that's clearly not what's going to happen, if you actually listen to Rutherford and co.

 

Regardless of what they do specifically, management clearly, fully intends to make moves to remain competitive next season and continue to build and improve the team over the next 2+ years. It will be fun to see what those moves actually end up being, but that's clearly the plan. There's very little mystery IMO.

And that’s exactly the same message (direction) taken by Benning for his time here.  The difference is JR is smarter and has smarter people (who he listens to) around him.  But the direction is no different.  Still, when JR arrived it was different.  Step back and be better able to compete consistently in two years was the message.  Not what we are hearing now.  

So, again is JR setting the direction or is our owner?  Since it’s Aquilini’s team and money (JR mentioned the owner’s money on several occasions) and history shows he has moved out people (Gillis and Benning) for suggesting taking purposeful steps back, imhao our owner reset the direction from JR start to now.  From step back to no step back.  

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And that’s exactly the same message (direction) taken by Benning for his time here.  The difference is JR is smarter and has smarter people (who he listens to) around him.  But the direction is no different.  Still, when JR arrived it was different.  Step back and be better able to compete consistently in two years was the message.  Not what we are hearing now.  

So, again is JR setting the direction or is our owner?  Since it’s Aquilini’s team and money (JR mentioned the owner’s money on several occasions) and history shows he has moved out people (Gillis and Benning) for suggesting taking purposeful steps back, imhao our owner reset the direction from JR start to now.  From step back to no step back.  

I don't think the 'step back' comment was ever made by JR, I think that was how our local media on 650 discussed it. Correct me if I'm wrong on that one, tho. 

 

This is what iMac was saying when JR was hired:

 

A rebuild, or even a re-set that requires a couple of steps back to fix the Canucks’ problems on defence, probably aren’t appealing options for Rutherford.

“I’ll be shocked if Jim’s not aggressive,” one NHL source said.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/now-rutherfords-team-new-canucks-prez-full-control/

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by JM_

[Alflives]

44 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

There are alot of factors going into moving Miller as you are implying.

 

First, it comes down to what does Miller want $ and term wise and does that fit into the Canucks long term plan. If not, simple, he gets moved. We will know that probably before that draft.

 

Second, who's interested and what are they willing to offer. What we know, is apparently the deal you mentioned was on the table. Is that deal or a similar deal available at the draft? My guess is given the playoffs, there will be more teams interested. Florida can't be happy with their performance, Pittsburgh rumours of Malkin maybe moving on, Toronto, always needs, Boston definitely would want him (Bergeron my retire, doubt it, but they don't even have  a legit 2c and are not in a tear it down stage, they still want to compete for a cup with that group), Colorado depending on what happens with Kadri (who is likely to move on), so many teams will be interested in Miller.

 

Third, based on what's on offer and balanced against, what Miller wants, we may move him before the draft (assuming it doesn't work in our financial plan), at the deadline, or maybe simply because someone blows us out of the water with an offer.

I love Miller, he's my favorite Canuck, as he embodies the same passion of players like Smyl, Linden, Bert, Kesler, Burrows, guys who really cared for this team so its hard for me to say this. but we should move him.

 

If Management does their job correctly, they should create a bidding war for him. We look at the NYR deal and say not enough, but management's job is then to create a market that get's enough.

 

With a player like Miller we can not and should not be a price taker, rather a price maker and even an  average GM should be able to create pricing tension for that asset (given he has no NTC/NMC, is on a dirt cheap contract, and his production and intangibles make him highly sought after). We have a Lambo, and if you can't sell a Lambo for the price of a Lambo, but rather the price of Jaguar, you have a problem.

 

TBH if Alvin fails here I will not be impressed. Basically, this trade that needs to happen, either jumps us forward years, or sets us back into JB pergatory. Alvin has a very important summer ahead. 

 

The return we get for Miller (and other guys) will confirm the direction set.  If the return is U22 players, picks, prospects then we are stepping back and being a better team in two years, but a team that will be consistently better for a long time after.  If the return is 23-27 year old players (which is the direction I believe changed to before the recently past TDL) then we are not planning a step back but will try to compete now and for the next two to three years, which will result in a shorter time to win.  

This is the Demko window.  

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And that’s exactly the same message (direction) taken by Benning for his time here.  The difference is JR is smarter and has smarter people (who he listens to) around him.  But the direction is no different.  Still, when JR arrived it was different.  Step back and be better able to compete consistently in two years was the message.  

Not really. I've always received the message the same. You're tying yourself in knots over semantics.

 

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Not what we are hearing now.  

So, again is JR setting the direction or is our owner?

Team circumstance.

 

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Since it’s Aquilini’s team and money (JR mentioned the owner’s money on several occasions) and history shows he has moved out people (Gillis and Benning) for suggesting taking purposeful steps back, imhao our owner reset the direction from JR start to now.  From step back to no step back.  

From the start of Rutherford's time, the message has always been to keep the team competitive, keep building. Nothing has really changed beyond a clearer view of what he has and, doesn't have in the organization.

Edited May 29, 2022 by aGENT

[aGENT]

Just now, Alflives said:

The return we get for Miller (and other guys) will confirm the direction set.  If the return is U22 players, picks, prospects then we are stepping back and being a better team in two years, but a team that will be consistently better for a long time after.  If the return is 23-27 year old players (which is the direction I believe changed to before the recently past TDL) then we are not planning a step back but will try to compete now and for the next two to three years, which will result in a shorter time to win.  

This is the Demko window.  

What if all we get back for Miller is picks and we turn around and use some of those picks to acquire the right D and/or 3C we need?

 

Stop Alf, you're a confused old alien, clearly drunk on too much Sour Puss.

[ShawnAntoski]

16 hours ago, Alflives said:

Will our owner listen?  JR comes here saying we need to take a couple steps back so we can build a team that can be consistently competitive.  Then that message changes to no step back because we want to compete now while resetting the group.  Sure sounds like what Benning was directed to do.  

How could trading Miller not be a step back?  

I get it and valid points cause the messaging did change from JRs' first presser to eventually, a retool 2.0.   I believe Demkos' contract is the window for this core and JR said as much, in the interview that they need to be adding players instead of the opposite - but there are no quick fixes for the issues that are ailing the team: cap & prospect depth.  JBs' mess is well known to us all but it was Aquaman, who created & mandated that group; and the way he recruited JR, seems to indicate a person that implicitly admitted to some mistakes.  Ultimately, Aquaman has a binary choice: support JRs' plan & timeline or not.  Secondly and perhaps as important, JR mentioned autonomy in his first press but time will tell, what that means and good chance, JR walks if Aquaman becomes too meddlesome.

As for Miller, his demands & age are simply not compatible with the teams window and preferably, the team sells on any player above 26 yrs of age, except for Demko.  Too reiterate, Demkos' contract is the window for this core and I am cautiously optimistic that Allvin will be able to deliver, despite JRs' presence cause other GM's are also well aware of the Canucks issues.  Perhaps, by the draft some of the playoff teams & others dreaming of a playoff spot will revisit there rosters and give Allvin a call ?   I am certainly, very interested how this crew will use 'analytics & JRs' experience' to deliver a successful retool vs what Arizona & the Habs are trying to concurrently accomplish: a full rebuild.

Edited May 29, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

I believe Demkos' contract is the window for this core.

 

I'm not even convinced of that personally.

 

I love Demko, and completely agree that he's likely a big part of our ability to be competitive over his current contract.

 

But 5 years is also a good amount of time to find and develop a replacement, if he indeed prices himself off the roster at the end of his contract. ESPECIALLY with Clark, the goalie whisperer, under contract and helping us both find, and develop guys.

 

It's also not unreasonable to assume we can afford to extend him and still be competitive. Tampa isn't exactly paying peanuts for their goalie, and seem to be doing just fine competing, thanks.

 

Focus on Hughes' and Petey's primes, build the organizational depth around that, including contingency plans for (eventually/potentially) replacing Demko.

 

[KyGuy123]

I hope we trade a couple top guys for picks and tank the next couple years in order to become a contender in the long run. A couple lottery picks and a couple extra first rounders would go a long way. Being way under the cap and capitalizing on other teams in cap crunches would be ideal.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said:

I hope we trade a couple top guys for picks and tank the next couple years in order to become a contender in the long run. A couple lottery picks and a couple extra first rounders would go a long way. Being way under the cap and capitalizing on other teams in cap crunches would be ideal.

Yes, it would be fun to watch (and might be actually what we should do if the goal is to build a team that will contend for Cups over a prolonged period) but it’s Not going to happen.  We already have our key core pieces, that come from those top picks.  JR is not taking a step back.