King Loui Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Just now, King Heffy said: Miller, and rebuilding the team for the tire fire that was left for Benning as opposed to being gifted a quality core by qualified management. I'm not even trying to argue that Benning did a good job, but Gillis was easily the worst GM in the history of the league and the damage he caused to the franchise still hasn't been fixed. I wouldn't trust Gillis to run the fryer at KFC out of fear that he'd trade the secret recipe for a gummy worm. Rebuilding the team? Him and all his cronies just got fired after being up to the cap... again. missing the playoffs... again and going without a first round pick...again. Worst gm in league history? Yeah we're done here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Loui Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Pears said: As did I, but to say we weren’t a borderline playoff team for a few years like we were this year or in 2020 when we won a couple of rounds is being disingenuous at best. Let’s also not act like the Luongo penalty from the contract Gillis signed didn’t cost us at least one of Tanev or Toffoli. We've had like 4 years to plan around that recapture penalty. Resigning Jake Virtanen and Braden Holtby among others cost us those players. Edited May 28, 2022 by King Loui 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 minute ago, King Loui said: We've had like 9 years to plan around that recapture penalty. Resigning Jake Virtanen and Braden Holtby among others cost us those players. Which could have been avoided if we didn't have a GM stupid enough to cripple the franchise with it. Milbury is probably still worse, Gillis is easily the runner up and it's not even close. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Loui Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Just now, King Heffy said: Which could have been avoided if we didn't have a GM stupid enough to cripple the franchise with it. Milbury is probably still worse, Gillis is easily the runner up and it's not even close. How many pres trophies and SCF appearances does Milbury have? The Luongo contract allowed them to have him at only a 5m AAV in the first few years, allowing us to build a team that went to the cup final. We then still managed to trade the rest of his contract for a vezina nominated goalie. the 3m recapture was inconveniant but not franchise crippling. You know what was crippling? Watching Loui Player Name stumble around for 6m for 6 years and trading 2nd round picks for nothingness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Pears said: Except that Gillis is the reason Benning had literally nothing to work with when he took over. I don’t like either but I’m just stating absolute facts. The prospect pool might have been bare but Benning was able to recoup draft picks. He also had all their draft picks available other than their 4th round pick but had an extra 5th. He also started his tenure with 6th overall. 1st round pick in the Kesler trade as well as Bonino on a steal of a contract 2nd round pick in the Garrison trade 2nd round pick in the Tortorella hiring by CBJ 2nd round pick in the Bieksa trade 3rd and 7th round picks for Lack He went on to trade several of those picks - Dorsett, Prust, Vey, Baertschi, Pedan, Etem, Gudbrandson, Pouliot etc. Even Sutter had him swap a higher pick for a later one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Just now, King Loui said: How many pres trophies and SCF appearances does Milbury have? The Luongo contract allowed them to have him at only a 5m AAV in the first few years, allowing us to build a team that went to the cup final. We then still managed to trade the rest of his contract for a vezina nominated goalie. the 3m recapture was inconveniant but not franchise crippling. You know what was crippling? Watching Loui Player Name stumble around for 6m for 6 years and trading 2nd round picks for nothingness Booth and Ballard both cost actual assets, in Ballard's case far more than 2nds, and were paid a similar % of the salary cap ceiling at the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Loui Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Booth and Ballard both cost actual assets, in Ballard's case far more than 2nds, and were paid a similar % of the salary cap ceiling at the time. Okay so? Every team makes bad moves. He made moves and signed other contracts that got us one win away from a cup and you're saying he's worse than Mike Milbury? That's just odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 minute ago, King Loui said: Okay so? Every team makes bad moves. He made moves and signed other contracts that got us one win away from a cup and you're saying he's worse than Mike Milbury? That's just odd Semi-joking, but easily the worst in the history of our franchise. You're dragging Benning through the mud and I'm simply pointing out that he made better moves than the idiot he replaced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Loui Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Semi-joking, but easily the worst in the history of our franchise. You're dragging Benning through the mud and I'm simply pointing out that he made better moves than the idiot he replaced. Mike Gillis, the worst GM in Canucks history. I've heard it all now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 3 hours ago, NucknAsia said: I agree with all of that but the one issue you're missing is the team with the twins was in a tough position to ask them to accept a rebuild with 5 good years left in them. Outside of that, i agree 1000% with what you've said. I love Miller but it makes the most sense to move him. and even potentially Bo. Did you know that the centre position is hardest position to find and we have 3 skilled centres.. Petey , Horvat, Miller.. Move Miller for a good package and clear cap space..No trading Horvat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Pears said: So how come teams like Colorado are cup contenders year after year all the while having multiple top prospects in their system? Because they waited 2 years to trade Duchene for the huge haul they wanted instead of pulling a Kesler trade "just because". And the Gillis era we were contender-like high standing team year after year. And yet this is the GM you diss. So while you beg for year after year success, your diss what made us successful in the past, ok.... Edited May 28, 2022 by Drakrami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: This thread really bugs me! People are rehashing our rebuild and asking why we did not do it right............. The truth is...............look in the mirror! You CDC and others, just wanted the quick rebuild....................it is not that simple! Luongo, Markstrom, Player Name, Hank Sedin, Ryan Kessler, Kevin Bieska, Alex Edler, Daniel Sedin, Tanev, Toffoli, Beagle, Roussel are all in some way, associated with us trying to rebuild on the fly or some incarnation of it. Look at those players look at the assets they alone would have brought to us if moved, not signed, or let to walk away.............it is ridiculous! Add Look! What started in 2012 and it is now the end of the 2022 season. Consider if we would have actually done if we would have started our rebuild, and actually attempted to sell off our players, not acquire or try to acquire patches................imagine, a distinct and deliberate tank.....one where you take future picks, and prospect that would not be ready for 5 years from draft day. Look at the picks we had, and where we would have pick, if not artificially held up. Imagine where we would have been if we actually did not win games against Stanley cup contenders that were resting players in the last 5 to 10 games................imagine picking in better positions and adding additional picks to our already improved picks. We look at LA, NYR, Ottawa, Colorado, and a few others that have actually let themselves free fall to the basement.................. We have a history of not doing the right thing, and it is predicated on the fact we have a hockey crazy owner, and hockey crazy fans, that love our players too much, and do not study the history of the NHL, nor understanding good business practices. No, our past is our faults for not moving declining assets, before it was too late........aka walking away as a UFA................ Consider JT Miller, and the suggestion of trading him............I can tell you personally, that when I suggested trading him in the beginning, I was chastised for it, and told it was a foolish idea..........I stated my case and was laughed at............Same with the Sedins, same with Edler, etc......... We bought Miller for a 1st round pick, and he has bettered his value since arriving, well now we are here, now what................sell him, we are not ready for him, we are not ready to compete, we are for all intense and purposes...............INCOMPLETE and any mid level 1st round picks historically take 3 to 5 years to make an impact, Notb so with top end top 1-7 not usually. "IF" Jimmy Rutherford is going to do this right, he does a mini -tear down............and focus's on 3 to 5 years down the road (Hopefully 3 years) IF Jimmy Rutherford can do that.................I am all for it If the draft lottery hadn't been so rotten, we would have had a few really good picks, but we got screwed just about every time... and JV and OJ picks not working also had lot to do with this. Do agree 100% that with hindsight, Torts was right, when he said, we needed a total rebuil. Disagree that top picks makes an instant impact... In general they are mid to late twenties, when they can carry their teams forward. It takes more than 3 years from starting a rebuild to really competing. I we start a tear down now, don't expect Petey to hang around. Bo, maybe, Hughes, who knows, but those are the players, who would fetch something for going forward. Demko? Would be on a bigger contract by then and so would Hughes. Have we got the stomach for that? 6-8 years before we can really compete again? Matthews, McDavid, MacKinnon, etc all have taken time to really find their feet and grown to be able to carry their teams. And on top of this, some top top picks become superstars, some great players and some not so much... Florida has been good this year. But was garbage like forever, Oilers too, Islanders too... And thats without speaking about the Arizona... Ottawa etc... The league is full of teams, where the total tear down didn't work. But yes if folks are ready to wait 6-8 years at least before being ready to start competing, then a full tear down probabl gives the best chances of building a true contender. If Rutherford does go for a mini tear down 3-5 years, who do you expect to be in the team, who is here at the moment Jan? Edited May 28, 2022 by spook007 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Drakrami said: Because they waited 2 years to trade Duchene for the huge haul they wanted instead of pulling a Kesler trade "just because". And the Gillis era we were contender-like high standing team year after year. And yet this is the GM you diss. So while you beg for year after year success, your diss what made us successful in the past, ok.... And Duchene as far as I’m aware didn’t force Colorado to trade him to one of two teams. I can guarantee you we would’ve gotten a better return for Kesler if he wasn’t a huge prick about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 2 hours ago, mll said: The prospect pool might have been bare but Benning was able to recoup draft picks. He also had all their draft picks available other than their 4th round pick but had an extra 5th. He also started his tenure with 6th overall. 1st round pick in the Kesler trade as well as Bonino on a steal of a contract 2nd round pick in the Garrison trade 2nd round pick in the Tortorella hiring by CBJ 2nd round pick in the Bieksa trade 3rd and 7th round picks for Lack He went on to trade several of those picks - Dorsett, Prust, Vey, Baertschi, Pedan, Etem, Gudbrandson, Pouliot etc. Even Sutter had him swap a higher pick for a later one. Yes it was hardly players that would make is contenders, but I do agree with the Dorsett pick though. He was the one player over several years, who would stand up to anyone... I go a little further and say any rebuilding team need those sort of players to stand up for their prospects as they grow up. And more than one or two of them.... But the whole team in the later years in particular under Benning seemed disconnected, when they were supposed to stand up for one another... the old 'we didn't see it...' was sickening to listem to. whether it was down to the coaches or the players themselves is anybody guess... this season under Bruce has been better in that regard. Lets hope the trend continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 12 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: I agree, sure lets move on.................. But has Aqualini learned anything from it all..........????? I mean he hire the friggin Sedins as part of his think tank.................... The same Sedins that recommended E R I K S S o N History is recorded so you can learn from it So as long as Aqualini and CDC learned from it, then great Otherwise, I am going to repeat it until I start hearing more..............."OH, now I understand why!" I think Aqua has moved on, I just don't think Rutherford would take this job to be a yes man. He's not meddling. RE: Sedins - did they recommend Player Name? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, JM_ said: I think Aqua has moved on, I just don't think Rutherford would take this job to be a yes man. He's not meddling. RE: Sedins - did they recommend Player Name? Rutherford states, upon arrival, we need to take a couple steps back so we can grow into a consistently competitive team. Now he’s saying he’s going to make changes but not take a step back. Tjats a big change in philosophy. Sounds exactly what Benning tried to do. Sounds like that direction is set by our owner. I guess it depends on how we define meddling? Is setting the direction meddling? I think it is if it’s a direction the GM believes is wrong. Gillis was moved out for believing our owner was wrong. Same happened to Linden. Is JR next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Alflives said: Rutherford states, upon arrival, we need to take a couple steps back so we can grow into a consistently competitive team. Now he’s saying he’s going to make changes but not take a step back. Tjats a big change in philosophy. Sounds exactly what Benning tried to do. Sounds like that direction is set by our owner. I guess it depends on how we define meddling? Is setting the direction meddling? I think it is if it’s a direction the GM believes is wrong. Gillis was moved out for believing our owner was wrong. Same happened to Linden. Is JR next? I think its more that he now has a far better idea of whats here. Don't forget, when he showed up this team was deep in the crapper. But then they showed they have more than maybe he thought with Green at the helm. Boudreau otoh showed us what the team can be. He's not going to negotiate against himself in the media re: player value. So of course he's going to talk about guys in a positive way. The only way Miller stays is if he's OK with something team friendly. I hope he does, but I know thats probably a long shot. I did like hearing his comments on Bo, and talking to him about growing as a leader (at least thats what I read into it). Edited May 28, 2022 by JM_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 13 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: This thread really bugs me! People are rehashing our rebuild and asking why we did not do it right............. The truth is...............look in the mirror! You CDC and others, just wanted the quick rebuild....................it is not that simple! Luongo, Markstrom, Player Name, Hank Sedin, Ryan Kessler, Kevin Bieska, Alex Edler, Daniel Sedin, Tanev, Toffoli, Beagle, Roussel are all in some way, associated with us trying to rebuild on the fly or some incarnation of it. Look at those players look at the assets they alone would have brought to us if moved, not signed, or let to walk away.............it is ridiculous! Add Look! What started in 2012 and it is now the end of the 2022 season. Consider if we would have actually done if we would have started our rebuild, and actually attempted to sell off our players, not acquire or try to acquire patches................imagine, a distinct and deliberate tank.....one where you take future picks, and prospect that would not be ready for 5 years from draft day. Look at the picks we had, and where we would have pick, if not artificially held up. Imagine where we would have been if we actually did not win games against Stanley cup contenders that were resting players in the last 5 to 10 games................imagine picking in better positions and adding additional picks to our already improved picks. We look at LA, NYR, Ottawa, Colorado, and a few others that have actually let themselves free fall to the basement.................. We have a history of not doing the right thing, and it is predicated on the fact we have a hockey crazy owner, and hockey crazy fans, that love our players too much, and do not study the history of the NHL, nor understanding good business practices. No, our past is our faults for not moving declining assets, before it was too late........aka walking away as a UFA................ Consider JT Miller, and the suggestion of trading him............I can tell you personally, that when I suggested trading him in the beginning, I was chastised for it, and told it was a foolish idea..........I stated my case and was laughed at............Same with the Sedins, same with Edler, etc......... We bought Miller for a 1st round pick, and he has bettered his value since arriving, well now we are here, now what................sell him, we are not ready for him, we are not ready to compete, we are for all intense and purposes...............INCOMPLETE and any mid level 1st round picks historically take 3 to 5 years to make an impact, Notb so with top end top 1-7 not usually. "IF" Jimmy Rutherford is going to do this right, he does a mini -tear down............and focus's on 3 to 5 years down the road (Hopefully 3 years) IF Jimmy Rutherford can do that.................I am all for it Nice summary. I was calling for major changes in 2012 if that counts for anything. Fans want a rebuild while we keep existing players just in case. Owners are hesitant because the stands empty out. Management hesitates because failing to make playoffs cost them their jobs. This attitude is somewhat endemic across all Canadian franchises with the exception of Ottawa. The Oilers are going into the Conference Finals even tho their management groups have truly failed for over 10 years. Those years of brutal failure gained them a roster full of #1 pics and first round picks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 41 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Nice summary. I was calling for major changes in 2012 if that counts for anything. Fans want a rebuild while we keep existing players just in case. Owners are hesitant because the stands empty out. Management hesitates because failing to make playoffs cost them their jobs. This attitude is somewhat endemic across all Canadian franchises with the exception of Ottawa. The Oilers are going into the Conference Finals even tho their management groups have truly failed for over 10 years. Those years of brutal failure gained them a roster full of #1 pics and first round picks. EDM is where it is due to pure luck, and despite their terrible string of GMs. Winning a generational lotto does have its perks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 I think of it like when we had Burke. He assembled the core. But he was terrible at the finer points much like JB. Then we got Nonutz who was just a Burke underling it wasn't until MG arrived that T's started getting crossed and I's dotted and we started to contend. We will see if JR can dot i's and cross t's. A team is greater than the sum of its parts. It's important that we start assembling the right pieces to get the most out of our players. We need a 3c who can take d zone fo's off Bo's plate. And most importantly fix our PK. Out Dickinson We need a defensive LHD who can take shut down duty off OEL's plate. Out Rathbone, Hunt, We need a RHD to play with Hughes though Shenn has been a good fit he shouldn't be considered the solution. Short term though its not an immediate need. Out Poolman We need some speed on the wings who can push D back. Out Boeser, We need a 4th line that bangs and PK's. Out Highmore, Chia, Dowling, Petan, Guiseppe If JR can address 2 of these areas this off-season it will be a good start. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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