HKSR Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 31 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Dadonov had negative value. Vegas would have needed to add a sweetener to trade his contract. So instead of doing that and giving up an asset they traded for an LTIR contract instead. So just like @mll said they traded a negative for a negative. An LTIR contract only has value if another team is able to take on a cap dump like Dadonov without the team dumping the cap having to attach a sweetener, an asset, to the deal. You're also just looking at it from Monteal's perspective. If Dadonov and the LTIR contract were interchangeable, why would they not just keep Dadonov? It's because for their particular situation, there was more value to bring in the LTIR contract than to hang onto Dadonov and have to ship out one of the players they wanted to keep. So in THIS particular situation, the LTIR contract > Dadonov for Vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 1 minute ago, HKSR said: You're also just looking at it from Monteal's perspective. If Dadonov and the LTIR contract were interchangeable, why would they not just keep Dadonov? It's because for their particular situation, there was more value to bring in the LTIR contract than to hang onto Dadonov and have to ship out one of the players they wanted to keep. So in THIS particular situation, the LTIR contract > Dadonov for Vegas. From Vegas’s point of view they had 2 choices to clear cap space for Reilly Smith. Either they trade Dadonov and add a sweetener to the deal or they do the deal with Montreal and add an LTIR contract. In this case they chose to add the LTIR contract as it was available from Montreal. Ideally it would have been better for them to trade Dadonov with a sweetener as it provides them more flexibility during the season than if they are in LTIR. However, given the fact that they had to put Lehner on LTIR and now Patrick as well it’s a moot point for Vegas for this year. The other issue with trading for Weber’s contract is that it’s for another 3 years after this year. So Vegas will be operating in LTIR for several more years. It might have been better for them to just bite the bullet and add a sweetener to trade Dadonov. To answer your question directly, in THIS particular situation yes Weber’s LTIR contract holds more value to Vegas than Dadonov’s contract. But they are both still negative values. It’s just that the LTIR contract is a little less negative to Vegas in this situation, if that makes sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 53 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: From Vegas’s point of view they had 2 choices to clear cap space for Reilly Smith. Either they trade Dadonov and add a sweetener to the deal or they do the deal with Montreal and add an LTIR contract. In this case they chose to add the LTIR contract as it was available from Montreal. Ideally it would have been better for them to trade Dadonov with a sweetener as it provides them more flexibility during the season than if they are in LTIR. However, given the fact that they had to put Lehner on LTIR and now Patrick as well it’s a moot point for Vegas for this year. The other issue with trading for Weber’s contract is that it’s for another 3 years after this year. So Vegas will be operating in LTIR for several more years. It might have been better for them to just bite the bullet and add a sweetener to trade Dadonov. To answer your question directly, in THIS particular situation yes Weber’s LTIR contract holds more value to Vegas than Dadonov’s contract. But they are both still negative values. It’s just that the LTIR contract is a little less negative to Vegas in this situation, if that makes sense. I'm almost 100% certain if they wanted to trade Dadonov while adding sweeteners instead of taking $8m in LTIR back, they would have done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: If Vegas puts Nolan Patrick on LTIR then they will have almost $14 million in LTIR contracts. They are at $92.7 million right now ($91.5 million without Patrick) so they would be able to exceed the cap by another $5 million to $96.5 million, which is more than enough to sign Hague and also add another minimum contract forward to complete their roster. Sure. This is Vegas we're taking about remember. I'd not be at all shocked if they want to do more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 36 minutes ago, HKSR said: I'm almost 100% certain if they wanted to trade Dadonov while adding sweeteners instead of taking $8m in LTIR back, they would have done that. They've already traded all of their top draft picks. Nick Suzuki, Peyton Krebs and Cody Glass. Who is left to trade? Nicolas Hague? 2023 1st round pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: They've already traded all of their top draft picks. Nick Suzuki, Peyton Krebs and Cody Glass. Who is left to trade? Nicolas Hague? 2023 1st round pick? Yup. If that's truly what they wanted to do, they would have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said: lol I agree. For now I'm hoping we waive Dickie or Poolman ... maybe if a dman gets waived that we can claim. I'm not sure if that's doable or not. I doubt it happens though. We probably go with what we got. I always like Wolanin, seems like he's gaining traction. not sure what the deal with Poolie is, he seems healthy but worse. Maybe he's tentative? dunno. Dickie gotta go. I can see Lazar carrying him tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: Yup. If that's truly what they wanted to do, they would have done it. True. I guess they value Nicolas Hague quite highly and the 2023 draft is supposed to be a good one. At some point you need to keep some picks and prospects. So LTIR money was the way to go for them in this case. I'm sure they regret the first deal they had with Dadonov. Can't even remember what the sweetener was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 minute ago, JM_ said: not sure what the deal with Poolie is, he seems healthy but worse. Maybe he's tentative? dunno. Dickie gotta go. I can see Lazar carrying him tho. Preseason; wheat from chaff; time for management to be stern. They don't have to do everything right away, but they have to constantly push the team forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: Preseason; wheat from chaff; time for management to be stern. They don't have to do everything right away, but they have to constantly push the team forward. no they don't, but I'd like to at least see if someone pulls Dickie off our roster. C'mon Ottawa, this has you written all over it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 minute ago, JM_ said: no they don't, but I'd like to at least see if someone pulls Dickie off our roster. C'mon Ottawa, this has you written all over it. who gave us a third was it? cuz they didn't have the 5th we were asking for? tell me it was The Nation's Capital. please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: who gave us a third was it? cuz they didn't have the 5th we were asking for? tell me it was The Nation's Capital. please it was. I figure if they see Dickie on waivers they figure they're getting revenge somehow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 Just now, JM_ said: it was. I figure if they see Dickie on waivers they figure they're getting revenge somehow. Oh Marchand! If only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 On 10/3/2022 at 9:25 AM, AngryElf said: Why would this make sense? Doesn't he have real value on LTIR? The Ferland contract isn’t insured. No insurer would cover it, so our owner is hoping to dump the bill. No team will take it without serious sugar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustard Tiger Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Sure. This is Vegas we're taking about remember. I'd not be at all shocked if they want to do more than that. I hope lehner is deemed fit to return post TDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 20 minutes ago, Alflives said: The Ferland contract isn’t insured. No insurer would cover it, so our owner is hoping to dump the bill. No team will take it without serious sugar. Serious Sugar, Alfie? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 3 hours ago, aGENT said: They don't have to "put him on LTIR" as you stated after the season starts. He'd already be on LTIR. Hague.... It makes no difference if he’s on LTIR already or if Vegas put him on LTIR, point is that there is no net cap gain by taking on Ferland 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 On 10/3/2022 at 4:04 PM, Fanuck said: Seems as though neither the NHL, the NHLPA, nor the BOG has any real concern over this issue. Really, it's just some vocal fans who are livid that TB seemingly got away with a 'loophole' and then won a cup. To be honest, when it happened, I was dismayed as to why/how the league let TB get away with this and predicted this would become commonplace in the future, but then I had to ask, if they league, the players, and the owners don't care, why should I? https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/nhl-gms-not-eager-to-close-ltir-loophole-despite-perceived-abuses/ Yes. It's fair game the way the CBA works ... and well, look at some of the teams that cities can ice. Loading up for the playoffs now goes beyond just paying futures for a player 50% retained. It allows teams to rest their players a little longer (pretty easy to get a Dr note lol), replace that player, and then have everyone come back "miraculously". 18 million over the cap Kucherov t-shirts chugging the beer... lol hilarious. Leagues fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Tannen Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 Everything @mll has said about the cap and LTIR is right and they've said it better than I could so I'm not going to rehash it too much. People claiming Ferland's contract (or LTIR in general) has value seem to be using a slightly confusing definition of 'value'. A healthy $3.5m player who isn't wanted and isn't going to play is worth less than $3.5m LTIR, but both have negative value. In the same way Van would have had to add lots to shift LE 3 years ago, if he had an 'accident' the cost to shift would drop but he wouldn't suddenly become an asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Tannen Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 On 10/4/2022 at 10:49 PM, aGENT said: They don't have to "put him on LTIR" as you stated after the season starts. He'd already be on LTIR. Hague.... I'm a bit confused. What do you think is the difference between putting a player on LTIR and getting a player who is on LTIR? Is it just a semantics issue or is it a cap benefit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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