[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Washington Capitals | Oct. 17, 2022

[spook007]

5 hours ago, kurtis said:

Why? I would argue we aren’t a playoff team.. 

1st team in HISTORY to blow 3 multi goal leads to start a season...

 

There is bad, there''s is mediocre, there's not quite good yet, and then there's good. 
 

And then there's a new grouping called, let scote some goals and then throw it all away....

 

That's why...

 

Lets be honest here, this is not a normal way of losing games..,

 

With Myers, Dermot and the hated Pool player  out injured, defeats were always on the cards, but these are total collapses

 

So, thats why I did NOT expect to start the season like that. 
 

[spook007]

7 hours ago, AlphaNuck said:

....again....

[spook007]

7 hours ago, combover said:

Same team same results.
Lazy players in the preseason lazy slow players to start to the season. 
D group is one of the worst in the league even when heathy.

 

The hot potato d zone passing is like watching U13 kids. 
 

a new nhl record was set thou. 
first team in history to lose their first three games after holding a lead. Lol. 

Not just a lead... a multi goal lead... makes it so much harder to stomach. 

[cripplereh]

1 hour ago, lmm said:

I didn't mean to hi-jack this into a nostalgia thread

 

I don't "support" this team

and if you have read my previous posts, you  will know that I do not subscribe to the concept of being a "true fan" or a better fan than anyone else

I find fandom idiotic even though I must call myself a Canuck fan

I watch this team

I root for this team

I dissect it

and I create theories as to why it fails repeatedly

I argue about this team

 

You may keep your crown as the better supporter

I will not try to unseat you

Dude same here.I have watched this team since the 70's as a kid and remember us being so bad.I always believe we can win.This team to me should be better.I think we do need a big shake up as a big big trade where we get a young 3c and good rhd.To me if Bo don't sign him BB and Rathbone should get us both pieces.If that doesn't happen something has to and soon.

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Of course the players care.   Well most of them, i'm sure none of them enjoy losing.   It's also on the GM to ice the right combo of players.   Anyone who's ever played on a team sport knows some guys grind it out with lesser skill but willingness to do whatever it takes, then the star players on that team, but doesn't mean any of those guys enjoy or want to lose.    Funny zero wins since Myers hasn't played.   And that's with Burroughs actually doing an admirable job ...  

 

Blowing 3 leads.   It's not the end of the world (yet!).   Nobody should be looking over the cliff ... that's taking things a bit far, but there's nothing wrong with being emotionally invested either.    The highs are that much higher.    The longer you've been a fan, the more abuse the relationship has provided, eventually you can laugh at things like setting a league record (if that's even a thing lol...records for everything now, makes sense because the everyone needs a ribbon crowd is now in positions of power) ... it's not great.   But let's keep an even keel.   Would it be more fun if we won a game lost a game won a game lost two then one 3, in a full loop and made the playoffs?   Or lost 3 then won 5?   Or lost 6 then won 8?   Doesn't matter how we get there as long as we do.    A players only meeting was a good call.   Blowing 3rd periods .... yikes!   And the team shouldn't be this bad with just two roster players out. 

But it hasn't been done in history (at least in terms of opening games) ... it's basically an error in the Matrix ( or as in the German TV Show "Dark" Ein Fehler in der Matrix") 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Another bad loss which is a combination of a lot of factors:

 

1 - Star players Miller, Bo and even Petey (who got bullies on that Ovi goal) not defending well. They're scoring, great, but not playing well defensively and need to take accountability. 

 

2 - Management not addressing our weak defence in the off-season, then combine that with an injury to two RDs Myers and Dermott.

 

3 - Demko has not been even great in the first 3 games but is getting a pass here. He is very far from the goalie we had last season and need. Not close to stealing us a win.

 

4 - PK is 50%, bottom of the league. Even if this was up around 80% we'd be 3-0-0 to start the year.

 

5 - PP has obviously been bad and let in some SHGs but didn't affect the Washington game too much.

 

We're a mess from top to bottom and it's got to come from the players. I'd like to see Martin start the next game and put Miller and Petey together again and see what happens. Big shift needed.

 

Only bright points was the offence, 5 on 5 play and Burroughs has really stepped up when needed.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

Fair point. 
 

if you wanted the best duo ever( in my time) would have to be Gretzky/Messier and Crosby/Malkin. Yzerman/Federov right up there. 
 

For the Nucks, I don’t think it gets better than  Nazzy/Bertuzzi, Gradin/Smyl, Sundstrom/Tanti. I’m forgetting others of course. Sedin/Sedin! Those two were also ridiculously record breakers. 
 

 

 

 

Think he's talking about linemates.   Gretzky played with Kurri, Messier with Anderson (although both those lines were probably top ten all-time lol, one first the other 8-10) .... Yzerman and Federov also both centers different lines, of course Crosby and Malkin too...Hull and Oates us up there as best too.   Has to be some others ... Lemuiex is a lot like Crosby ... aside from Guentzal who's he played with for awhile that was that good?   Lemuiex had Stevens of course ...but Stevens sure wasn't the same after he left... Gretzky made a PPG guy score 150 one year Bernie Nichols...and Luc Robataille maybe doesn't make the HHOF without some of his boffo seasons playing with Wayne either ... he won 3 Art Ross's and one Hart as a King ... 918 in 539 games lol.   Taylor and Dionne have to be mentioned too.   Dionne was the McKinnon of his era.    

 

Gretzky Kurri is number one ... but single seasons...we'll probably 7 have Gretzky's name on it ?  Gretzky Nichols would be in there somewhere ... Hull and Oats too.  

 

And Gretzky Robataille probably makes the top ten too, had 63ish goals one year with Wayne.    Espo's lines?   Lafluer's?  Howe and Lindsay , Hull and Makita.    Those guys also in the top ten (more then just one season) somewhere.    The Sedins probably end up somewhere in the mid 30's all-time ... with guys like Thornon and Marleau, just the best of their era, which really wasn't that good.   Lecavalier and St.Louis/Richards also would be competing in the 2000's.   Naslund Morrison Bertuzzi,   Healtey Spezza Alfie ...  Well Sakic (Hedjuk?) was still around and broke 100 points at 37 so suppose one of his lines too in the 2000's.   Forsberg.   Maybe him too.   Not all line combos work out like you'd think ... Gretzky Hull sure flopped (by their standards ... how DARE Gretzky get barely 100 points, even if he's 35 and it's the dead puck era!) 

 

For us the production line Linden Ronning Courtnall gets lost a little ... of course Linden Bure doesn't.    Naslund Bertuzzi ... Sedins, easy to remember...don't forget about Sundstrom though (pretty sure he got us McLean too!).   Ovi/Backstrom has to be one of the better recent ones ...

 

Edit: Maybe Biestra can shed some light on other line combos ... Statsny?  His career arc was similar to McDavid's although he broke the iron curtain and started a little later.. Lemuiex/Jagr ... maybe they were the only one that could rival Gretzky and Kurri?    As far as center combo's - Gretzky/Messier,  Lemuiex/Francis,  Yzerman/Federov, Sakic/Forsberg, Crosby/Malkin...anyone else in that range?   

Edited October 18, 2022 by IBatch

[RU SERIOUS]

          Quick, call the paramedics!    Our team is sick !

[RU SERIOUS]

8 hours ago, HKSR said:

Boeser NEEDS to go.  No more excuses for the piss poor play.

 

8 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

What is with Boeser's demeanor out there?  Boeser is doing fly-bys, 

 

8 hours ago, Jack Fig said:

Boeser is dead weight. And dead money. Couldn't win a puck battle to save his life. 

 

8 hours ago, MNaslund?? said:

wait wait  but, but…. He’s friends with everyone on the team and he’s nice!!!!

 

8 hours ago, Jack Fig said:

I forgot about that. 

 

8 hours ago, DSVII said:

yea huge mistake. Would have traded at least one of Boeser or Miller.

 

8 hours ago, shazzam said:

That's Horvat and Boeser.. don't expect change

 

8 hours ago, BPA said:

I like Boeser but honestly would have traded them both for cap space and a top RHD.

 

8 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Been saying this all along.   Boeser is completely useless.   The guy gets slower every year.

 

7 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

It’s probably just Bo sitting on the floor in the middle of the dressing room with a saucer of milk. Probably meowing up a storm. 
Then Boeser stops licking his paws and struts over to drink some milk too. 
 

That is a Canucks players only meeting 

 

7 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

 

7 hours ago, diesel_3 said:

Boeser's fly by on Kuznetsov that lead to the goal made me throw up in my mouth, totally inexcusable, at least get in his way a LITTLE bit. What value does Boeser actually have now? Slow-mo .gifs of hockey hair for the social media team? anything else? 

 

7 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Yeah, I noticed Boeser blowing the zone multiple times in 3rd.  

Okay, I'm done with complaining... 

 

7 hours ago, BC_Hawk said:

Losing Rathbone would suck, but I’d do it. Boeser is damaged goods, and Kuz plays his position better and cheaper. Honestly, if that trade goes down, I’d extend Kuz soon after. He would still be reasonable, but showing he belongs every game

 

6 hours ago, RakuRaku said:

I don't get it... Why can't Boeser get into a scoring position ever?? 

 

6 hours ago, Fen1010 said:

Yet we pay BB6 6 million plus a year to do? A bigger waste of cap and roster space than Pearson. At least Pearson can backcheck, win more than his share of board battles, pk and be trusted with a lead late in games. Same thing can not be said for our 6 million plug.

 

6 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Boeser Goes first

 

6 hours ago, klw604 said:

 

Trade boeser when he gets hot, no point trading him when he's at his lowest value, asset management, something Benning didn't do at all

 

5 hours ago, Outsiders said:

Boeser needs to go. He sucks. Enough is enough. Defended him for far too long. He's a boat anchor out there.

Hey JR, you're new around here, so why don't you listen to the fans that have been here for a while.  We all know Boeser needs to go, so save yourself the disappointment and do what needs to be done sooner rather than later. You'll thank us for advice one day!

 

 

 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I know the defence has looked like a weak link these past 3 games, but damn, the “Miller effect” is really something to behold, when you dig into the WOWYs (with/without stats) for all Canucks Dmen this season.

 

Hughes with JTM (5v5): 18:28 TOI, 13.8 xGF% 
Hughes without JTM (5v5): 36:12 TOI, 47.16 xGF% 

Hughes with JTM (on PK): 2:01 TOI, 4 GA, 206.56 CA/60

Hughes without JTM (on PK): 3:07 TOI, 0 GA, 57.75 CA/60

 

Burroughs with JTM (5v5): 13:43 TOI, 16.27 xGF%

Burroughs without JTM (5v5): 36:12 TOI, 74.82 xGF%
Burroughs with JTM (on PK): 1:10 TOI, 1 GA, 152.11 CA/60

Burroughs without JTM (on PK): 2:34 TOI, 0 GA, 46.75 CA/60

 

OEL with JTM (5v5): 9:18 TOI, 20.12 xGF%
OEL without JTM (5v5): 39:51 TOI, 47.74 xGF%
OEL with JTM (on PK): 1:39 TOI, 2 GA, 72.73 CA/60

OEL without JTM (on PK): 2:37 TOI, 0 GA, 56.25 CA/60

 

Schenn with JTM (5v5): 15:07 TOI, 24.04 xGF%
Schenn without JTM (5v5): 32:22 TOI, 54.63 xGF%
Schenn with JTM (on PK): 1:45 TOI, 4 GA, 240.00 CA/60

Schenn without JTM (on PK): 3:34 TOI, 0 GA, 66.98 CA/60

 

Stillman with JTM (5v5): 9:28 TOI, 14.14 xGF%
Stillman without JTM (5v5): 31:31 TOI, 66.73 xGF%
Stillman with JTM (on PK): 0:54 TOI, 0 GA, 133.33 CA/60

Stillman without JTM (on PK): 1:30 TOI, 0 GA, 0.00 CA/60

 

Poolman with JTM (5v5): 3:42 TOI, 55.07 xGF%
Poolman without JTM (5v5): 16:16 TOI, 55.06 xGF%
Poolman with JTM (on PK): 0:48 TOI, 0 GA, 0.00 CA/60

Poolman without JTM (on PK): 1:13 TOI, 0 GA, 147.95 CA/60

 

Juulsen with JTM (5v5): 1:42 TOI, 89.59 xGF%
Juulsen without JTM (5v5): 9.46 TOI, 23.57 xGF%

Juulsen with JTM (on PK): N/A

Juulsen without JTM (on PK): N/A

 

The only Dmen with better stats with Miller than without him are Poolman and Juulsen. They are also the ones with the least minutes played with Miller (around six minutes total).

 

As for the other five Ds (Hughes, Burroughs, OEL, Schenn, and Stillman), and the much larger overall sample, it’s pretty consistent. They’ve all been terrible at 5v5 when Miller’s on the ice (xGF% ranging from 13.8 to 24.04) and disastrous killing penalties with Miller (both by goals against and the rate of shot attempts surrendered). Take Miller off the ice, however, and this defence suddenly has some pretty darn respectable stats. The overall xGF% (without Miller) is just fine at 5v5. And the PK has been perfect, so long as JTM doesn’t touch the ice.

 

So what does this mean?

 

Well, I’m going to try for an optimistic take.

 

Miller can’t keep playing this poorly and posting these kinds of stats. He just can’t. He’s a good player and eventually he’s going to stop wrecking his own team at 5v5 and on the PK.

 

And if the Dmen are actually doing fine (like the stats suggest) when they’re playing without Miller, then maybe once Miller finally starts playing some decent hockey, this Canucks defence will actually look… pretty good?

 

Here’s hoping.

 

But yeesh, I can’t remember too many times when a single player, especially one at the top of a lineup, has had such a disastrous impact on his teammates’ stats. 
 

Hopefully the “Miller effect” is just a three game aberration that we’ll all soon forget about, once this team finally starts winning games (and JTM stops playing like ****).

[EddieVedder]

13 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey JR, you're new around here, so why don't you listen to the fans that have been here for a while.  We all know Boeser needs to go, so save yourself the disappointment and do what needs to be done sooner rather than later. You'll thank us for advice one day!

 

 

 

Thank you.   Its obvious that this is the worst contract on the team by far.  Should have been traded long ago.

[EddieVedder]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Well...Miller doesn't have a trade clause until next season.   OEL, yes we are stuck with him.    The other guys ... Garland for sure some team would be interested in.   Ilya M... doubt it (for now). 

 

And how is Demko a Vezina caliber goalie when he hasn't done anything yet to get that moniker?   We can always trade Demko.   No trade protection.   In fact IF we did a COL style "re-set", Demko is the guy to trade first.    There isn't as big a gap between Demko and a dozen or so Kuemper's/Andersson's etc that float around the league as some might think.    Vasilevsky, Markstrom, Hellebucyk etc have been doing it for more then one year lol...Marskstrom barely deserves to be in that conversation ... TB has had some terrible games, Vasilevsky wins for them anyways.    Same thing with that NYR newbie.   Yes Demko is trending that way.. as in he's a legit number one... there are only 10-11 at one given time...but one year and three playoff games isn't exactly enough to label him much more then that so far.   Vezina caliber goalies teams don't miss the playoffs, doesn't matter how bad their teams are. 

Before we trade anyone of value, we need to toss out dead weight like Boeser.   I agree Demko has not looked good but ifs too early to talk full reset right now.  

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, EddieVedder said:

Before we trade anyone of value, we need to toss out dead weight like Boeser.   I agree Demko has not looked good but ifs too early to talk full reset right now.  

Boeser is not dead weight give it the f up already. 

[EddieVedder]

4 hours ago, iinatcc said:

On a good team he wouldn't be a 1st pairing dman. Plus on a numbers side before coming to Vancouver, most analyst saw him at a #3 or #4 dman. Even when Sportsnet 650 interviewed someone from the Coyotes media they didn't see OEL as a 1st pairing guy anymore 

Highly disagree.   Oel is still a top pairing dman on most teams.  Maybe hes not an elite producer but he still has the skating, iq and strength to play those minutes. 

[RU SERIOUS]

30 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Boeser is not dead weight give it the f up already. 

[Timråfan]

Almost time to bet that we take home the cup this season 

 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I know the defence has looked like a weak link these past 3 games, but damn, the “Miller effect” is really something to behold, when you dig into the WOWYs (with/without stats) for all Canucks Dmen this season.

 

Hughes with JTM (5v5): 18:28 TOI, 13.8 xGF% 
Hughes without JTM (5v5): 36:12 TOI, 47.16 xGF% 

Hughes with JTM (on PK): 2:01 TOI, 4 GA, 206.56 CA/60

Hughes without JTM (on PK): 3:07 TOI, 0 GA, 57.75 CA/60

 

Burroughs with JTM (5v5): 13:43 TOI, 16.27 xGF%

Burroughs without JTM (5v5): 36:12 TOI, 74.82 xGF%
Burroughs with JTM (on PK): 1:10 TOI, 1 GA, 152.11 CA/60

Burroughs without JTM (on PK): 2:34 TOI, 0 GA, 46.75 CA/60

 

OEL with JTM (5v5): 9:18 TOI, 20.12 xGF%
OEL without JTM (5v5): 39:51 TOI, 47.74 xGF%
OEL with JTM (on PK): 1:39 TOI, 2 GA, 72.73 CA/60

OEL without JTM (on PK): 2:37 TOI, 0 GA, 56.25 CA/60

 

Schenn with JTM (5v5): 15:07 TOI, 24.04 xGF%
Schenn without JTM (5v5): 32:22 TOI, 54.63 xGF%
Schenn with JTM (on PK): 1:45 TOI, 4 GA, 240.00 CA/60

Schenn without JTM (on PK): 3:34 TOI, 0 GA, 66.98 CA/60

 

Stillman with JTM (5v5): 9:28 TOI, 14.14 xGF%
Stillman without JTM (5v5): 31:31 TOI, 66.73 xGF%
Stillman with JTM (on PK): 0:54 TOI, 0 GA, 133.33 CA/60

Stillman without JTM (on PK): 1:30 TOI, 0 GA, 0.00 CA/60

 

Poolman with JTM (5v5): 3:42 TOI, 55.07 xGF%
Poolman without JTM (5v5): 16:16 TOI, 55.06 xGF%
Poolman with JTM (on PK): 0:48 TOI, 0 GA, 0.00 CA/60

Poolman without JTM (on PK): 1:13 TOI, 0 GA, 147.95 CA/60

 

Juulsen with JTM (5v5): 1:42 TOI, 89.59 xGF%
Juulsen without JTM (5v5): 9.46 TOI, 23.57 xGF%

Juulsen with JTM (on PK): N/A

Juulsen without JTM (on PK): N/A

 

The only Dmen with better stats with Miller than without him are Poolman and Juulsen. They are also the ones with the least minutes played with Miller (around six minutes total).

 

As for the other five Ds (Hughes, Burroughs, OEL, Schenn, and Stillman), and the much larger overall sample, it’s pretty consistent. They’ve all been terrible at 5v5 when Miller’s on the ice (xGF% ranging from 13.8 to 24.04) and disastrous killing penalties with Miller (both by goals against and the rate of shot attempts surrendered). Take Miller off the ice, however, and this defence suddenly has some pretty darn respectable stats. The overall xGF% (without Miller) is just fine at 5v5. And the PK has been perfect, so long as JTM doesn’t touch the ice.

 

So what does this mean?

 

Well, I’m going to try for an optimistic take.

 

Miller can’t keep playing this poorly and posting these kinds of stats. He just can’t. He’s a good player and eventually he’s going to stop wrecking his own team at 5v5 and on the PK.

 

And if the Dmen are actually doing fine (like the stats suggest) when they’re playing without Miller, then maybe once Miller finally starts playing some decent hockey, this Canucks defence will actually look… pretty good?

 

Here’s hoping.

 

But yeesh, I can’t remember too many times when a single player, especially one at the top of a lineup, has had such a disastrous impact on his teammates’ stats. 
 

Hopefully the “Miller effect” is just a three game aberration that we’ll all soon forget about, once this team finally starts winning games (and JTM stops playing like ****).

This might mean that Miller wants to be trade unless he’s got an injurie we don’t know anything about. 

[Russ]

If only games were 2 periods long....

[canuck73_3]

54 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

False, guess you missed the assist on Horvats goal with all your whining. 

[Goal:thecup]

10 hours ago, EmilyM said:

Because regardless of who's in the front office, they're all just extensions of Aquilini who desperately wants the revenue from two playoff games. And as long as the ownership stays the same, making the first round is all we will ever strive for.

We need a Bull Shit icon.